ISU #4 in Preseason Polls?

deanvogs said:
If you really think that all the players that have left under Da Mayor has all been their choice, you are more delusional than most Clown fans. He has lost more than double what McDermott did. Yet is doesn't matter, as only the bench warmers, the players who don't develop or aren't needed are the ones that leave....I'm sure it is just a massive "coincidence" and it isn't Da Mayor pushing them out.....HAHA....sometimes I feel sorry for just how stupid ISU fan can be.
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Aside from Amardi, what player did Fred push out of the program?? A link or some proof would be nice to justify your claim or else you're just purely making stuff up and speculating.

If a player transfers b/c they are sitting on the bench and want more playing time, then every single coach and program "pushes" players out of their program as there are hundreds and hundreds of these type of cases each year. Fran must have pushed out Dickerson. I'm sure Bo Ryan pushed out Jarrod Uthoff too.
 
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deanvogs said:
Fred really has no interest in recruiting at all, and would have been perfectly happy taking only transfers. He made that obvious over the last couple years. Fred does well in connecting with misfits, and rejects, but it doesn't seem that he connects with HS kids. Brining back Otz might be the only way they sign HS kids at all....case in point, NN.
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And I totally get that, recruiting is creepy. As a grown man, I wouldn't want to be spending my summer's following 16 year old kids around, trying to let them know how much I care, staying in touch with them all the time, telling them how good they can be. You have to be a little crazy to be a college basketball coach. Fred seems like he would much rather just deal with the transfer process which is closer to NBA free agency, recruit these guys for a couple weeks and then they sign.
 
kaneisable50 said:
Aside from Amardi, what player did Fred push out of the program?? A link or some proof would be nice to justify your claim or else you're just purely making stuff up and speculating.
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What else do you need? Every single last player that isn't/wasn't need just "magically" decides to leave to open up a scholarship....Do you think that Crean just "happens" to oversign" every year, that it is just some happenstance that it occurs all the time? Open your eyes dude, it is what it is, why does it even bother you, it has made the ISU program stronger.
 
deanvogs said:
What else do you need? Every single last player that isn't/wasn't need just "magically" decides to leave to open up a scholarship....Do you think that Crean just "happens" to oversign" every year, that it is just some happenstance that it occurs all the time? Open your eyes dude, it is what it is, why does it even bother you, it has made the ISU program stronger.
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Iowa State does not oversign players every year...open your eyes dude. The Amardi case was the one and only time Fred has 'oversigned'...they needed a PG that year badly and it happened that Deandre Kane wanted to come here. It has been documented that Fred went as far as helping Amardi find another program before releasing him. I understand that recruiting is a corrupt business but you claiming that Fred "pushes out" players and forces them to transfer every year is completely wrong.
 
kaneisable50 said:
Iowa State does not oversign players every year...open your eyes dude. The Amardi case was the one and only time Fred has 'oversigned'...they needed a PG that year badly and it happened that Deandre Kane wanted to come here. It has been documented that Fred went as far as helping Amardi find another program before releasing him. I understand that recruiting is a corrupt business but you claiming that Fred "pushes out" players and forces them to transfer every year is completely wrong.
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Fred doesn't oversign, that wasn't my point. My point was a pattern is a pattern. Every last unproductive player leaves....it isn't a coincidence, it is a coaching strategy.
 
deanvogs said:
Fred doesn't oversign, that wasn't my point. My point was a pattern is a pattern. Every last unproductive player leaves....it isn't a coincidence, it is a coaching strategy.
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This "pattern" or "coaching strategy" can be seen across every program in the country, so even if your theory were to be true, lets try not to demonize Iowa State's program for implementing a "strategy" that is common in college basketball.
 
deanvogs said:
Fred doesn't oversign, that wasn't my point. My point was a pattern is a pattern. Every last unproductive player leaves....it isn't a coincidence, it is a coaching strategy.
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You don't need to oversign when you push guys out ahead of time, I still don't get why ISU fans get so upset about this?
 
kaneisable50 said:
This "pattern" or "coaching strategy" can be seen across every program in the country, so even if your theory were to be true, lets try not to demonize Iowa State's program for implementing a "strategy" that is common in college basketball.
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Since we both agree that most coaches implement this strategy, then you have to agree that Fred uses this strategy about 5X as much as other coaches. He has seen what 13 to 15 kids leave over 5 years?.....Iowa has had 3. So yeah, go ahead and pretend that it is all the same, the rest of the college BB universe sees it for what it is, and that is why ESPN calls you Transfer U.
 
kaneisable50 said:
This "pattern" or "coaching strategy" can be seen across every program in the country, so even if your theory were to be true, lets try not to demonize Iowa State's program for implementing a "strategy" that is common in college basketball.
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LOL where to he "demonize" ISU? He just said Fred pushed players out, he does. It's ******* stupid ISU fans that get worked up about it and refuse to admit it.
 
I can't think of a player that has been run out of the program by Hoiberg. Eustachy was certainly known to do that. Guys like Custer and Dorsey-Walker just didn't want to sit on the bench. Custer had nothing but great thing to say about the program after he left.
 
deadeyededric said:
I can't think of a player that has been run out of the program by Hoiberg. Eustachy was certainly known to do that. Guys like Custer and Dorsey-Walker just didn't want to sit on the bench. Custer had nothing but great thing to say about the program after he left.
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Fred is always overrecruiting players he already has in his program. I see where he has offered a couple of Iowa high school basketball players, but if Iowa doesn't want them they probably would be better of at UNI where they would be looked after.
 
deadeyededric said:
I can't think of a player that has been run out of the program by Hoiberg. Eustachy was certainly known to do that. Guys like Custer and Dorsey-Walker just didn't want to sit on the bench. Custer had nothing but great thing to say about the program after he left.
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Amari also said good things about ISU as well.....yet it is well documented what Fred did to him. Players understand the game....say nice things, and Freddie boy will let you transfer wherever you want, it is all explained to them.
 
HawkeyeMike23 said:
LOL where to he "demonize" ISU? He just said Fred pushed players out, he does. It's ******* stupid ISU fans that get worked up about it and refuse to admit it.
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Demonize might not have been the best word, but you get the point....It's stupid that Iowa fans are making this claim w/out any sort of proof. Still all speculation. In fact, Clayton Custer helped host NN on his visit, why would someone that got pushed out of the program do this?
 
kaneisable50 said:
Demonize might not have been the best word, but you get the point....It's stupid that Iowa fans are making this claim w/out any sort of proof. Still all speculation. In fact, Clayton Custer helped host NN on his visit, why would someone that got pushed out of the program do this?
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And you are speculating as well. How do you know that Custer said anything good about the program to NN?

Coming to a logical conclusion isn't speculation. You yourself said that coaches push players out. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a coach who sees 5x as many players leave would logically push out 5x as many players as the avg. coach?
 
deanvogs said:
And you are speculating as well. How do you know that Custer said anything good about the program to NN?

Coming to a logical conclusion isn't speculation. You yourself said that coaches push players out. Wouldn't it stand to reason that a coach who sees 5x as many players leave would logically push out 5x as many players as the avg. coach?
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I never said coaches push players out...I said players transfer all the time for the same reason, playing time, etc. I'd like to think that players make that decision on their own, whereas you and others assume that Fred and other coaches push them out. BUT no one can say with 100% certainty which one is true.

Also NN signed with ISU, that alone should tell you that CC gave positive feedback to NN. I've never been a fan of social media, but they also follow each other on twitter and have "tweeted" each other or at least I think that's how you say it. I think it's safe to say CC gave NN a positive experience.
 
kaneisable50 said:
I never said coaches push players out...I said players transfer all the time for the same reason, playing time, etc. I'd like to think that players make that decision on their own, whereas you and other assume that Fred and other coaches push them out. BUT no one can say with 100% certainty which one is true.

Also NN signed with ISU, that alone should tell you that CC gave positive feedback to NN. I've never been a fan of social media, but they also follow each other on twitter and have "tweeted" each other or at least I think that's how you say it. I think it's safe to say CC gave NN a positive experience.
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No school has the amount of mass exodus that Fred has. I mean even schools that are imploding don't see players leave at this rate. Why is that, why do players leave ISU at 5x the rate as your average university. I mean are ISU players the only kids in the country who "want more playing time?" According to Clown logic, it is all just a massive coincidence, Freddie only kick Amari off the team, the rest all left, well, just cause.
 
deanvogs said:
No school has the amount of mass exodus that Fred has. I mean even schools that are imploding don't see players leave at this rate. Why is that, why do players leave ISU at 5x the rate as your average university. I mean are ISU players the only kids in the country who "want more playing time?" According to Clown logic, it is all just a massive coincidence, Freddie only kick Amari off the team, the rest all left, well, just cause.
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Did Fran push Trey Dickerson out?
 
kaneisable50 said:
Did Fran push Trey Dickerson out?
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I'd say it is about 99% likely that Fran pushed out AT LEAST 1 of the 3 who have left. I would also say it is 99% likely that Freddie has pushed out AT LEAST 1 of every 3 players that have left his program as well.

So once again why does Clown fan get so pizzed off it at this? I'd say most coaches do it, the thing is it seems Fred seems more comfortable doing it about 5X as much as the average coach.
 
deanvogs said:
I'd say it is about 99% likely that Fran pushed out AT LEAST 1 of the 3 who have left. I would also say it is 99% likely that Freddie has pushed out AT LEAST 1 of every 3 players that have left his program as well.

So once again why does Clown fan get so pizzed off it at this? I'd say most coaches do it, the thing is it seems Fred seems more comfortable doing it about 5X as much as the average coach.
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So say your claims about Fred are actually true...why do Hawk fans care so much about this?
 
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