Iowa QB Quality
- Thread starter Hawkbomb
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DP5555
Well-Known Member
It depends who you're comparing her to. If you gave me a list of three girls and Kate Upton was one of them I would ask what specifically makes you think she's the hottest. You're comparing Rudock, Sokol, and Beathard here, and you're saying Sokol is the BEST leader when you haven't been in any position to fairly compare the three in that category. To be quite honest you have an incredibly small amount of information to go on yet you still feel like you are already in a position to preach who the #1 guy is. That is what's annoying. It isn't that you like Sokol. I hope for the Hawkeyes sake that he ends up being as good or better than you claim. However, I hope the same thing about Rudock and Beathard.
I'm not going to continue going back and forth. The bottom line is you aren't in practices, you aren't in the locker room, and you damn sure aren't in the huddle. The coaches get to see everything up close and personal. The guy who deserves it most will get the job. It doesn't matter who that is. I simply feel like it's way to early to be making bold statements based on a sliver of information. That's the only reason I've taken the time to debate. It's like convicting someone of murder simply because they found the body.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
This is certainly the case on a team run by Kirk Ferentz. My point was not simply that I think leadership is supremely important. It's more that I know Kirk Ferentz, and many other coaches, place a huge amount of emphasis on it.
Hawknick
Banned
This is by far the best qb battle since 1987. They are all so talented. It will come down to who outworks the others. As Hartlieb did in 87, his competition was just as talented if not more so but he gave himself the edge with his work ethic and his football smarts. The team won 10 games including one at OSU that year also. It will be sweet to see things go the same direction this year.
This just isn't a factual statement in reality. Name one Iowa QB that KF chose based on leadership. Jake Christensen over Stanzi might be the only case. QBs are chosen based on talent (eventually) at Iowa and everywhere else. Maybe at Yale or Army it's based on leadership.
I said 80% of leadership is in the position, I didn't say some weren't better than others. In fact, if you read what I wrote I said there are different degrees of leadership.
I think any of the three would do fine at leadership, especially Rudock and Sokol because they are older and more mature. Nevertheless, I would submit to you that both Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are more talented than either Sanchez or Gabbert and that's why you think they're such great leaders.
Where did you read that Rudock was a "great leader"? It wouldn't be on this board would it? I thought DP555 said he hadn't heard that before anywhere. DP555 you should go after this guy. I guess by "great" you'd put him up with Joe Montana and Joe Namath.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I would actually argue that Stanzi ended up winning the job because of his leadership not because of talent. He certainly didn't have one talent that jumped out at you. I think Christensen is actually an example of a Ferentz QB who kind of fell into the starting role based on his experience, and lost it because he lacked leadership. He couldn't right the ship when things were going wrong. They started spiraling out of control and balls ended up in the dirt over and over again. That's something that a leader has the ability to do. That's why it's so important on a football field, and that's why Stanzi was a pretty damn good QB for Iowa. It was very hard to shake his confidence no matter what happened on the field.
The fire Drew Tate had in him made him a unique talent, but also a very good leader. He just had to be reigned in a little bit at times. I believe it's this kind of fire that one of the younger guys will need in order to beat out Rudock. Rudock doesn't come across as a fiery kind of guy. Seems like his leadership style is similar to Vandenberg's. Kind of a quiet confidence.
JVB was certainly the best leader on the team. He also had the most experience.
Brad Banks has openly come out and said he was comfortable with Ferentz's decision to play McCann over him in his first year because he wasn't ready at that point. He just wanted to help out the team however he could. I'm sure that earned him some respect going into the next year when he became the team's leader.
Once again, I fail to see your point. Obviously talent plays a huge role as well, but Ferentz isn't going to put the most talented guy out there if he feels like he's a miserable leader of men. Now it doesn't seem like any of the three guys gunning for the job would fall into that category so I'm not too worried about it. However, I completely disagree with you when you say leadership has very little to do with who starts.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Once again you're putting words in people's mouths. I said I haven't seen anyone say Rudock is the BEST leader. On the contrary, I've seen plenty of people say he's a very good leader.
No, Jake Christenson couldn't complete a pass, and Stanzi has NFL caliber talent (at least to make the roster). You don't make an NFL roster without talent. Same with JVB he has talent although he didn't show it last year. Otherwise, he wouldn't be vying for an NFL roster spot right now.
Yes, Drew Tate is a great example of why I think Sokol would be a really good leader. He projects confidence.
I think any of these guys can lead so I just don't think it should be a major factor. Although I still think Sokol would be the best because of the positive, confident attitiude he projects.
Do you think that Rudock or Beathard lack positive and confident attitudes? Or just less than Sokol? If so, can you provide examples of when you saw these?
So if you want to compare Drew Tate to Sokol based on projecting their confidence in interviews and such, then I will reference another QB who projected confidence in fans opinions, Steele Jantz, and we all know how that worked out.
I am not trying to argue with you that the other twoQBs are better than Sokol by any means but you seems to believe that Sokol is however better than the other two QBs without a doubt in your mind. Just asking why, AND for you to actually prove it. Don't be one of those fans that only looks at one side (their own side) and claims to be right because based on your example of projecting confidence, doesn't always pan out.
I would contend that Ricky Stanzi is a better leader than Blaine gabbert. Blaine is a starter in the nfl and Ricky is a 3rd string QB. Tim tebow is a better leader than both and a worse nfl type QB than either. I understand there are degrees of leadership but leadership gets you positions not the position making you a leader.
i will use a coach to highlight this. Rex ryan is a phenomenal defensive mind. He is well respected by people in the business and players seem to love him as a coach. But he was put in a position of leadership and the way he leads has yielded worse results each year. He was put into a position that you say creates leadership yet he isn't seeming like the leader people thought he was at a lower level of leadership (dc). This is a game where coaching means the most and good coaching and leadership can mask weaknesses. Yet his coaching has suffered. Just look at what Denver did with the horrid passer called Tim tebow (but he sure is a great leader).
I would say that this is comment on rudock being a good leader...he elevates those around him. The other times I have heard of him being a good leader are from people that have been to practices and talked to players that have told me good info before.
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
If you have three quarterbacks, you have no quarterback.
It's gonna be brutal. Absolutely brutal.
It's gonna be brutal. Absolutely brutal.
Yes it will ( if no one is good enough to win the job). I don't think we can know that answer yet though.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
To be fair, no ONE QB has won the starting job, yet. It doesn't mean we "have no quarterback".
ThunderHawk
Well-Known Member
The only thing that qualifies my statement is the fact that Kurt never let any of these guys see the field in an actual live action football game...because VandenBearKiller was so stellar. Or something.
Hawknick
Banned
The last time Iowa had a QB battle like this they ended up with the Big 10s leading passer and 10 wins. Don't count them out!1987 Big Ten Conference Year Summary | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
I'm not sure I understand. You aren't saying that they can't possibly be division one starting caliber because they didn't play are you?
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I honestly think they were struggling so much trying to figure out what the hell they could do offensively that would actually work that they never even considered changing the QB. If you think about it... what good would it really have done? If you have zero identity offensively and if whatever the gameplan was isn't working then what good is it gonna do putting in another QB? It probably would have looked even worse and in the end it could have killed their confidence.
As much as I stand by KF, I honestly think last year James was nothing more than a sacrificial lamb. He sacrificed his senior season so Kirk and GD could try to mesh their philosophies, and they wound up figuring out that it had failed miserably. Once they came to that conclusion it was too late. Sure they could have got someone else snaps, but like I said earlier, I don't think it would have accomplished anything positive. They needed to completely hit the reset button, and it's pretty tough to do that in the middle of a season.
It is what it is. I just feel bad for Vandy. The fact he never once complained about it publically tells you a lot about the kid.
whammer33024
Well-Known Member
this thread is just painful to read. it actually hurts my head
