Iowa @ Iowa State (Basketball)

[Benddontbreak]

What was the B10’s record vs B12 last season? Like 11-2 right? As for Baylor, they were one of the hottest teams in the country at the end of the year (23 point win over KU). Could not pick out a worse matchup personnel-wise for Iowa either.

 

[deanvogs]

I agree with a lot of what you said above. It's one thing to recruit over guys already on the roster, but it's different to recruit over a guy who hasn't even practiced with the team yet (Morris).

The bolded part above is a bit much though. Hoiberg has had two guys that he actively recruited TO Iowa State as freshmen transfer out. Okoro and Sledge. Fran has had one... Ingram. Not a real big difference there. The other freshmen that transferred (Railey) was a McDermott recruit. McKnight was a McDermott recruit and Godfrey was a McDermott recruit that got booted by Hoiberg for smoking weed.

Fred had literally 4 scholarship players on his roster when he took over... Garrett, Christopherson, VanDerbeeken, and Ejim. Palo was a walk on. OF COURSE he re-recruited Railey, Godfrey, and McKnight, he had to. They were already signed and he needed bodies no matter who they were. That leaves him with exactly eight available players for the upcoming season.

He took over April 27th at Iowa State. What kind of freshmen do you think he could reel in at that time to come in the fall and produce? He chose to get some transfers. Recruited Jake Anderson (one year to play, eligible immediately), Chris Allen (sit out a year, one to play), Royce White (sit out a year, three to play), Chris Babb (sit out a year, two to play) and Anthony Booker (sit out a year, two to play). He basically scrubbed the first year to get a pretty talented "scout" team. He also managed to go 15 -15 with an eight man roster.

I guess the point is this. The guys that transferred like McKnight and Railey were McDermott recruits that didn't fit his system.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about McDermott's recruits. I could link articles that show that Fred was re recruiting them, and wanted them (have linked them before in another thread). If he didn't want them, he would have told them to move on. I'm not saying he wasn't in a tight spot, or a bad spot, but those kids were his recruits, just like Ejim is. Marble and McCabe are Fran's recruits, just as those others are Fred's. He needed them, so he re recruited them.

 

[tm3308]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about McDermott's recruits. I could link articles that show that Fred was re recruiting them, and wanted them (have linked them before in another thread). If he didn't want them, he would have told them to move on. I'm not saying he wasn't in a tight spot, or a bad spot, but those kids were his recruits, just like Ejim is. Marble and McCabe are Fran's recruits, just as those others are Fred's. He needed them, so he re recruited them.

Re-recruiting kids because you desperately need bodies is not the same thing as re-recruiting guys you actually envision having a big role in the future. Hoiberg didn't necessarily WANT those guys. He just desperately NEEDED them.

 

[deanvogs]

Re-recruiting kids because you desperately need bodies is not the same thing as re-recruiting guys you actually envision having a big role in the future. Hoiberg didn't necessarily WANT those guys. He just desperately NEEDED them.

Don't most coaches recruit kids because they NEED them? Doesn't it prove that he "wants" them, by the sheer fact he is recruiting them? Fred has shown that he will show a kid the door if he didn't want them (even ones he signed), and he didn't do that with these kids.

The fact is those kids didn't want to play for ISU or Hoiberg, just as Ingram didn't want to play for Fran. It could have been for playing time, or being homesick, or whatever. The simple fact is they left, and he has had high turnover with his players. This is just a fact, interpret it as good or bad, I don't really care.

 

[tm3308]

Don't most coaches recruit kids because they NEED them? Doesn't it prove that he "wants" them, by the sheer fact he is recruiting them? Fred has shown that he will show a kid the door if he didn't want them (even ones he signed), and he didn't do that with these kids.

The fact is those kids didn't want to play for ISU or Hoiberg, just as Ingram didn't want to play for Fran. It could have been for playing time, or being homesick, or whatever. The simple fact is they left, and he has had high turnover with his players. This is just a fact, interpret it as good or bad, I don't really care.

Fran could have shown Marble and McCabe the door when he came in. Iowa, despite all its attrition under Lickliter, still had a pretty good amount of scholarship players on the roster when Fran was hired. But he wanted them, and they've fit in pretty well with his overall plan for the program.

Iowa State, on the other hand, was VERY shorthanded when Hoiberg was brought in. What was he going to do, play his first season with 4 guys on scholarship? He wasn't in a position to let anyone walk without putting up a helluva fight to convince them to stay for at least another year. I think it's pretty clear he needed them for a year, and once they saw the writing on the wall with transfers, etc., they decided to go elsewhere, which wasn't a bad thing for anyone involved.

He did what he had to in order to stay afloat in his first year. I don't think anybody can look at Hoiberg's track record and say something's fishy, or anything like that, simply because of a handful of guys who weren't recruited to play his style left after the first year. Had he inherited a better situation, he probably would have let those guys walk the first time. But he couldn't do that at the time.

 

[BryceC]

So Monte Morris isn't going to be the instant starter and play 20+ mins a game and show how Mr. Basketball's from the state of Michigan dominate?
I would take your bet, but we would have to define what "much better numbers" actually is...PM me for a friendly wager.

What Iowa State fan has has Morris penciled into the starting lineup after the Kane signing?

What is your definition of much better numbers? Would doubling his output be enough? Tripling it?

 

[YellowSnow]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about McDermott's recruits. I could link articles that show that Fred was re recruiting them, and wanted them (have linked them before in another thread). If he didn't want them, he would have told them to move on. I'm not saying he wasn't in a tight spot, or a bad spot, but those kids were his recruits, just like Ejim is. Marble and McCabe are Fran's recruits, just as those others are Fred's. He needed them, so he re recruited them.

No need to link articles. I agree that Fred talked them into staying. Where we differ is in the fact that you think talking a guy into staying is the same as recruiting a guy to a school initially. It's not... especially considering the circumstances.

As I said earlier, Fred took over on April 27th. He didn't EVEN KNOW HE WAS GOING TO BE THE COACH two days earlier. Do you think he had scouted film on the ALREADY SIGNED freshmen? He needed players. I was wrong earlier when I said he had four scholarship guys. He actually only had three. Ejim was another guy he had to convince to stay. What would you have done in his situation? Cut them loose and play with three scholarship players and walk ons despite having no tangible clue whether any of them could play?

 

[David79]

I'm not sure who started this but is stupid to criticize Fred bc guys like McKnight and Railey transferred. They weren't big 12 caliber players. This happens at all schools.

 

[David79]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong about McDermott's recruits. I could link articles that show that Fred was re recruiting them, and wanted them (have linked them before in another thread). If he didn't want them, he would have told them to move on. I'm not saying he wasn't in a tight spot, or a bad spot, but those kids were his recruits, just like Ejim is. Marble and McCabe are Fran's recruits, just as those others are Fred's. He needed them, so he re recruited them.

Those aren't Fred's recruits and they aren't Frans recruits.
Frankly, it would have been better for Iowa if McCabe would have transferred and they picked up someone better. The less minutes he plays the better.

 

[hawkfan33]

Those aren't Fred's recruits and they aren't Frans recruits.
Frankly, it would have been better for Iowa if McCabe would have transferred and they picked up someone better. The less minutes he plays the better.

LOL because big time transfers and recruits were just dying to come to Iowa when Fran got here. McCabe helped Iowa get back to where they are today. As the team has improved his minutes have gone down, but I'm very glad he's stayed at Iowa.

 

[DP5555]

Those aren't Fred's recruits and they aren't Frans recruits.
Frankly, it would have been better for Iowa if McCabe would have transferred and they picked up someone better. The less minutes he plays the better.

Sorry but I totally disagree with your opinion here. Guess I just feel like it is a completely unnecessary and pretty shallow thing to say. If Iowa could have brought in more talented players than we would have heard about it.

McCabe is by no means a star player, but he's remained devoted to the Hawkeye program and he's played a critical role in multiple Hawkeye wins. Plus he plays with a toughness that this team needed these past couple years. You know he's going to give you everything he's got even if it can get a bit wreckless at times. He's also done a nice job contributing with some clutch 3's.

Your post is a pretty good example of someone who's unnecessarily bashing a kid who's only guilty of giving everything he has to a program that at one point in his career looked like it was going absolutely nowhere.

 

[ddiction]

Those aren't Fred's recruits and they aren't Frans recruits.
Frankly, it would have been better for Iowa if McCabe would have transferred and they picked up someone better. The less minutes he plays the better.

During Basabe's sophomore year, McCabe clearly outplayed him. McCabe had three 20-point games that year and he was playing C/PF against bigger guys. Now the Hawks have bigger big men and the wings are better than he is, but that doesn't mean he isn't an asset to the team. Having a guy who can shoot threes and play anywhere from the 2 to the 5 is a huge asset to the rotation.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

Dude, I only watched him play this year but the kid plays hard. He is often out talented but he doesn't back down. He has given it his all as a hawk and win some games for us. I would not bad mouth this kid.

 

[ddiction]

Also if it were an official stat, even in his limited minutes McCabe would probably be in the Hawks' top 10 all time for charges taken in a career.

 

[sportstalent]

Also if it were an official stat, even in his limited minutes McCabe would probably be in the Hawks' top 10 all time for charges taken in a career.

There is a reason for that...not ripping him.

 

[David79]

Sorry but I totally disagree with your opinion here. Guess I just feel like it is a completely unnecessary and pretty shallow thing to say. If Iowa could have brought in more talented players than we would have heard about it.

McCabe is by no means a star player, but he's remained devoted to the Hawkeye program and he's played a critical role in multiple Hawkeye wins. Plus he plays with a toughness that this team needed these past couple years. You know he's going to give you everything he's got even if it can get a bit wreckless at times. He's also done a nice job contributing with some clutch 3's.

Your post is a pretty good example of someone who's unnecessarily bashing a kid who's only guilty of giving everything he has to a program that at one point in his career looked like it was going absolutely nowhere.

It's not bashing. It's a fact that he is not talented or goo enough to play much on a tournament team. He seems like a great kid but if transferred away early and they picked up someone who could help them be better faster I would have no problem with it. I bet he plays even less this year with Gabe continuing to improve and the addition of Uthoff

 

[sportstalent]

It's not bashing. It's a fact that he is not talented or goo enough to play much on a tournament team. He seems like a great kid but if transferred away early and they picked up someone who could help them be better faster I would have no problem with it. I bet he plays even less this year with Gabe continuing to improve and the addition of Uthoff

It is the pure definition of bashing...you say he should have transferred and isn't talented.

You state your pure opinion with citing nothing about his skills. It is one thing to talk about his skills, but another to say he should have transferred and isn't talented.

 

[RocknRollface]

Baylor had a cake walk through the NIT. If anything it shows Baylor just ran into tougher teams in conference play. Period.

Or that Scott Drew is the Mac Brown/Kirk Ferentz of basketball.

Given the talent that team should have been the #2 team in the b12 if not #1.

Baylor was easily the third most talented team Iowa faced all year behind Michigan and Indiana and the only thing making Indiana more talented was Olidipo. Austin was a much tougher match up than Zeller, McGeary or Hamonds.

He just destroyed Woodbury where as Adam held his own fine against the other soon to be NBA players.

 

[RocknRollface]

Those aren't Fred's recruits and they aren't Frans recruits.
Frankly, it would have been better for Iowa if McCabe would have transferred and they picked up someone better. The less minutes he plays the better.

No way would it have been better for Iowa to lose McCabe. Hes not a world beater but hes a solid role player and was one of the better players on the team untill recently.

Brommer, Archie and Payne were the ones who had absolutely no business at this level and should have been shown the door in favor of transfers or Jucos. I have no problem with Fred getting rid of McDermot recruits.

I just don't think Fran was allowed to get rid of his dead weight.

 

[RocknRollface]

Also if it were an official stat, even in his limited minutes McCabe would probably be in the Hawks' top 10 all time for charges taken in a career.

And blocking fouls lol, either way you know its gonna be a collision.

I am glad for what Zach provided to the hawks, and I think he will provide some more key moments this year even if he doesn't see much time.

Still, can't help but wonder what he would have been able to do at QB for the Hawks.