Iowa @ Iowa State (Basketball)

[sportstalent]

Basketball rivalries I must say get pushed to the back of my mind after the verdict tonight. The fact that a 29 year old AMRMED MAN can follow a 17 year old UNARMNED BOY...I repeat UNARMED BOY. BOY. BOY. a grown, armed MAN can follow a BOY home in the dark and insert fear into the boy and shoot him dead is just absolutely ridiculous! I must say what a very sad night for the country. Can't even imagine this would have been a case had the races been reversed. Sad sad night.

Does not belong in this forum...

 

[MisterLucky]

7 Big Ten teams made the tournament...did they not? Last time I checked Iowa did not. They have not under Fran. So my math puts them at 8/12 in the Big Ten that is all that matters. A chance to play for all the marbles. Iowa played the bottom feeders of the Big Ten much like football and still failed to make a bowl game or make the NCAA tournament. Just sad. Easiest schedule possible within their conference and still couldn't do any damage. Sad.

There is no "your" math. There is only math. You claimed that: "If these recruits Fran is bringing in are so productive why have you yet to finish in the top half of the Big Ten under his watch?" You are just flat wrong on this and you know it. The fact that you can't admit it just proves that facts are not important to your arguments, just your bias.

 

[ForeverIowan]

What is sad is that you think Iowa had an easy conference slate...it isn't worth trying to explain to you how many 6-seeds or higher they faced in conference play. Don't compare the B12 with the B10 either if you want to talk about easy conference slates...you have zero clue don't you.
The fifth place team in the B10 knocked off the best team in the B12 in the NCAA tournament, but that doesn't matter when talking about conference schedules.

Iowa played 7 games before the post season vs. #6 seeds and higher compared to seven games vs. #6 seeds or higher vs. ISU. 7 and 7 is pretty equal to me??? 7 in conference play for Iowa vs. 6 for ISU. Yeah monumental difference there you're just a statistician! You have zero clue! Iowa went 1-6 vs. those opponents. Iowa State went 3-4 vs. those opponents. So my question is what in the world is your point??

 

[BryceC]

I have learned the opposite...depends on perspective. I have learned FI is not the most intelligent and gives the good 'Clod posters here a bad name.

People earlier in this thread were ripping cf for suggesting Iowa's players have peaked, and rightfully so. You just claimed Iowa State's players peaked and don't bat an eye. Truly derp worthy.

 

[BryceC]

As far as conference standings go, I guess it's nice. I honestly couldn't tell you off hand where Iowa State finished last year although I'm fairly sure it was 4th or 5th. IMO conference standings only matter if you win the thing and other than that it's about building the best tourney resume possible.

 

[sportstalent]

People earlier in this thread were ripping cf for suggesting Iowa's players have peaked, and rightfully so. You just claimed Iowa State's players peaked and don't bat an eye. Truly derp worthy.

Because I think Gibson/Palo aren't going to put up numbers beyond what they already have you haven't read what I said about Niang/SDW. ISU has some unproven talent, it isn't a lie, they are unproven at the D1 level.

 

[BryceC]

Because I think Gibson/Palo aren't going to put up numbers beyond what they already have you haven't read what I said about Niang/SDW. ISU has some unproven talent, it isn't a lie, they are unproven at the D1 level.

I will bet any amount of money fathomable palo will put up much better numbers this year.

 

[sportstalent]

Iowa played 7 games before the post season vs. #6 seeds and higher compared to seven games vs. #6 seeds or higher vs. ISU. 7 and 7 is pretty equal to me??? 7 in conference play for Iowa vs. 6 for ISU. Yeah monumental difference there you're just a statistician! You have zero clue! Iowa went 1-6 vs. those opponents. Iowa State went 3-4 vs. those opponents. So my question is what in the world is your point??

Again, no clue. ISU played 3 teams, or 6 games against 6 seeds or higher and went 2-4 with their two wins being against OK St and KSU, both lost in the first round IIRC.
Iowa played 5 teams, or 7 games against 6 seeds or higher. The point is and was you said Iowa had an one of the easier conference slates and that doesn't include Illinois/Minnesota who made the tournament. Iowa did not have an easy road to make it to the NCAA tournament in conference play.

You are comparing 1 win to 2 wins, monumental difference there and Iowa played more NCAA teams in conference play than ISU. The point is there are no easy schedules in major conferences, but one could argue pretty easily who played the tougher schedule between the two schools and who benefited the most from it.

The fifth place team in the B10 beat the best team in the B12 head to head in the tournament. That alone is not the deciding factor on what conference was tougher, it is just a point to the depth of the B10.

You continue to show intelligence when trying to discuss this. Iowa played 5 teams in conference that were a 6-seed or higher and ISU played 3; that is the point. Please when you learn basic reading comprehension come back and play.

 

[sportstalent]

I will bet any amount of money fathomable palo will put up much better numbers this year.

So Monte Morris isn't going to be the instant starter and play 20+ mins a game and show how Mr. Basketball's from the state of Michigan dominate?
I would take your bet, but we would have to define what "much better numbers" actually is...PM me for a friendly wager.

 

[deanvogs]

As far as conference standings go, I guess it's nice. I honestly couldn't tell you off hand where Iowa State finished last year although I'm fairly sure it was 4th or 5th. IMO conference standings only matter if you win the thing and other than that it's about building the best tourney resume possible.

I agree here. Iowa learned the hard way that conference standing don't mean much.

 

[YellowSnow]

You really are a bad troll, you know that?

Actually, he's a pretty good troll. You guys keep responding to him. Wish you wouldn't...

Does this board have an ignore feature?

 

[trj]

As far as conference standings go, I guess it's nice. I honestly couldn't tell you off hand where Iowa State finished last year although I'm fairly sure it was 4th or 5th. IMO conference standings only matter if you win the thing and other than that it's about building the best tourney resume possible.

Not posting anything new here it has been that way for a long, long time.

 

[hawkfan33]

Iowa played 7 games before the post season vs. #6 seeds and higher compared to seven games vs. #6 seeds or higher vs. ISU. 7 and 7 is pretty equal to me??? 7 in conference play for Iowa vs. 6 for ISU. Yeah monumental difference there you're just a statistician! You have zero clue! Iowa went 1-6 vs. those opponents. Iowa State went 3-4 vs. those opponents. So my question is what in the world is your point??

There is a huge difference there. Iowa didn't get to play crappy B12 teams. All 6 seeds are not created equal, the entire B12 was vastly overrated last year and the tournament proved that as only two B12 teams even made it out of the first round. Ok St and K-State should not have been anywhere near that high of seed. Iowa beat three teams that made the round of 32, ISU beat one team and it was FGCU.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Again, no clue. ISU played 3 teams, or 6 games against 6 seeds or higher and went 2-4 with their two wins being against OK St and KSU, both lost in the first round IIRC.
Iowa played 5 teams, or 7 games against 6 seeds or higher. The point is and was you said Iowa had an one of the easier conference slates and that doesn't include Illinois/Minnesota who made the tournament. Iowa did not have an easy road to make it to the NCAA tournament in conference play.

You are comparing 1 win to 2 wins, monumental difference there and Iowa played more NCAA teams in conference play than ISU. The point is there are no easy schedules in major conferences, but one could argue pretty easily who played the tougher schedule between the two schools and who benefited the most from it.

The fifth place team in the B10 beat the best team in the B12 head to head in the tournament. That alone is not the deciding factor on what conference was tougher, it is just a point to the depth of the B10.

You continue to show intelligence when trying to discuss this. Iowa played 5 teams in conference that were a 6-seed or higher and ISU played 3; that is the point. Please when you learn basic reading comprehension come back and play.

Was the Big Ten strong this year? Absolutely. All I was saying was in relation to schedules that their Big Ten counterparts had to play Iowa had about the easiest possible path. Look at the chart below of how many times they played each team. They were fortunate to be able to play all of the bottom feeders twice. Their conference record was inflated and I can only assume they won't be as fortunate with the scheduling next year.


Indiana - 2
Ohio State - 1
Mich - 1
Mich St. - 1
Wisconsin - 2
Illinois - 1
Iowa
MIN - 2
Purdue - 2
NEB - 2
NW - 2
Penn St. - 2

You put entirely way too much stock into one game. Michigan beat Kansas. Congrats. It was possibly the best game of the entire tourney. KU was in control throughout and Trey Burke took over late. He is a tremendous player. KU beat Ohio State in Columbus by 8. You can go round and round all day long based on one game. Kansas State beat Florida this year. So does that mean I think K-State was the better team and would have won the SEC. No. Speaking of depth and your one game scenario. I think Iowa found out the Big 12 was pretty deep. Baylor (who finished in the bottom half of the Big 12) was pretty talented weren't they?

 

[trj]

Was the Big Ten strong this year? Absolutely. All I was saying was in relation to schedules that their Big Ten counterparts had to play Iowa had about the easiest possible path. Look at the chart below of how many times they played each team. They were fortunate to be able to play all of the bottom feeders twice. Their conference record was inflated and I can only assume they won't be as fortunate with the scheduling next year.


Indiana - 2
Ohio State - 1
Mich - 1
Mich St. - 1
Wisconsin - 2
Illinois - 1
Iowa
MIN - 2
Purdue - 2
NEB - 2
NW - 2
Penn St. - 2

You put entirely way too much stock into one game. Michigan beat Kansas. Congrats. It was possibly the best game of the entire tourney. KU was in control throughout and Trey Burke took over late. He is a tremendous player. KU beat Ohio State in Columbus by 8. You can go round and round all day long based on one game. Kansas State beat Florida this year. So does that mean I think K-State was the better team and would have won the SEC. No. Speaking of depth and your one game scenario. I think Iowa found out the Big 12 was pretty deep. Baylor (who finished in the bottom half of the Big 12) was pretty talented weren't they?

Isn't that an indictment against the big 12? Baylor was the biggest underachieving team in the country last year.

 

[ForeverIowan]

Isn't that an indictment against the big 12? Baylor was the biggest underachieving team in the country last year.

Baylor had a cake walk through the NIT. If anything it shows Baylor just ran into tougher teams in conference play. Period.

 

[trj]

Baylor had a cake walk through the NIT. If anything it shows Baylor just ran into tougher teams in conference play. Period.

Good lord, you are delusional.

 

[YellowSnow]

Just imagine if your boss had hired a team of new workers 8 months ago to start working with the rest of your team. Then at the last minute he brings in a hired gun from out of town. Will it help the team? Sure it will, and you will be more productive, and some will be on board with that. Other that are lets say losing money, or job opportunities (playing time) to the hired gun are going to see it differently, and some are going to harbor some resentment about this. It is human nature, it is only nature. There is a reason that Fred has had so many players transfer OUT of the program.

Not saying it is bad to recruit over players with transfers, just saying it is a bit different than brining in FR. I would think that when Morris was recruited, IF Fred was planning on bringing in another PG in the same class, he would have to be on board with the idea in order for him to commit. The thing about this is, who knows what promises Fred made to Morris about being the only PG recruit he was taking. Then wham bam at the last minute he is pretty much losing his minutes to someone else, and if he had known this was going to happen he may very well have never signed with ISU. Big, big difference.

I agree with a lot of what you said above. It's one thing to recruit over guys already on the roster, but it's different to recruit over a guy who hasn't even practiced with the team yet (Morris).

The bolded part above is a bit much though. Hoiberg has had two guys that he actively recruited TO Iowa State as freshmen transfer out. Okoro and Sledge. Fran has had one... Ingram. Not a real big difference there. The other freshmen that transferred (Railey) was a McDermott recruit. McKnight was a McDermott recruit and Godfrey was a McDermott recruit that got booted by Hoiberg for smoking weed.

Fred had literally 4 scholarship players on his roster when he took over... Garrett, Christopherson, VanDerbeeken, and Ejim. Palo was a walk on. OF COURSE he re-recruited Railey, Godfrey, and McKnight, he had to. They were already signed and he needed bodies no matter who they were. That leaves him with exactly eight available players for the upcoming season.

He took over April 27th at Iowa State. What kind of freshmen do you think he could reel in at that time to come in the fall and produce? He chose to get some transfers. Recruited Jake Anderson (one year to play, eligible immediately), Chris Allen (sit out a year, one to play), Royce White (sit out a year, three to play), Chris Babb (sit out a year, two to play) and Anthony Booker (sit out a year, two to play). He basically scrubbed the first year to get a pretty talented "scout" team. He also managed to go 15 -15 with an eight man roster.

I guess the point is this. The guys that transferred like McKnight and Railey were McDermott recruits that didn't fit his system.

 

[sportstalent]

Was the Big Ten strong this year? Absolutely. All I was saying was in relation to schedules that their Big Ten counterparts had to play Iowa had about the easiest possible path. Look at the chart below of how many times they played each team. They were fortunate to be able to play all of the bottom feeders twice. Their conference record was inflated and I can only assume they won't be as fortunate with the scheduling next year.


Indiana - 2
Ohio State - 1
Mich - 1
Mich St. - 1
Wisconsin - 2
Illinois - 1
Iowa
MIN - 2
Purdue - 2
NEB - 2
NW - 2
Penn St. - 2

You put entirely way too much stock into one game. Michigan beat Kansas. Congrats. It was possibly the best game of the entire tourney. KU was in control throughout and Trey Burke took over late. He is a tremendous player. KU beat Ohio State in Columbus by 8. You can go round and round all day long based on one game. Kansas State beat Florida this year. So does that mean I think K-State was the better team and would have won the SEC. No. Speaking of depth and your one game scenario. I think Iowa found out the Big 12 was pretty deep. Baylor (who finished in the bottom half of the Big 12) was pretty talented weren't they?

So you are comparing the Michigan-Kansas game to Iowa-Baylor to discuss depth? Amazing.

Kansas was a great team this season, OSU was a consistent team this season, I would expect KU to beat them 49 of 50 times. Florida was one of the most overrated teams all season, plain and simple, but another team that Michigan beat on their way to the Championship game as well and it was a blowout if I recall.

Yest we can debate this all day and you can tell me all about how Iowa played the bottom part of the B10 all you want, but the results of the NCAA tournament speak for themselves.

Also, hang your hat on that Iowa-Baylor game if you like. Heading into that if any Iowa fan thought Iowa was going to win that game well, I am not sure if they were thinking clearly. I did not like the match-up for Iowa and was hoping Baylor would fall apart and not get that far, it didn't happen. Baylor has as much or more talent as any NCAA team, but they did not play to that talent level all season, in stretches yes, but not consistently. Baylor had a great opportunity to be in the NCAA tournament, but let a team like Oklahoma, who was bad, take their spot by being underachievers.

 

[sportstalent]

I agree with a lot of what you said above. It's one thing to recruit over guys already on the roster, but it's different to recruit over a guy who hasn't even practiced with the team yet (Morris).

The bolded part above is a bit much though. Hoiberg has had two guys that he actively recruited TO Iowa State as freshmen transfer out. Okoro and Sledge. Fran has had one... Ingram. Not a real big difference there. The other freshmen that transferred (Railey) was a McDermott recruit. McKnight was a McDermott recruit and Godfrey was a McDermott recruit that got booted by Hoiberg for smoking weed.

Fred had literally 4 scholarship players on his roster when he took over... Garrett, Christopherson, VanDerbeeken, and Ejim. Palo was a walk on. OF COURSE he re-recruited Railey, Godfrey, and McKnight, he had to. They were already signed and he needed bodies no matter who they were. That leaves him with exactly eight available players for the upcoming season.

He took over April 27th at Iowa State. What kind of freshmen do you think he could reel in at that time to come in the fall and produce? He chose to get some transfers. Recruited Jake Anderson (one year to play, eligible immediately), Chris Allen (sit out a year, one to play), Royce White (sit out a year, three to play), Chris Babb (sit out a year, two to play) and Anthony Booker (sit out a year, two to play). He basically scrubbed the first year to get a pretty talented "scout" team. He also managed to go 15 -15 with an eight man roster.

I guess the point is this. The guys that transferred like McKnight and Railey were McDermott recruits that didn't fit his system.

The mass exodus and subsequent kicking players off is pretty typical, the situation that Iowa had when Fran took over is atypical, but there wasn't a full roster there to begin with, most were already gone that would have left anyway. We'll just call that a product of the previous coach and move on.
Fred did fight like hell to have White eligible immediately, but it didn't happen, I think it worked out anyway. Better that he wasn't available as most first year coaches have their worst record that season to begin with.