Iowa @ Iowa State (Basketball)

[deanvogs]

That isn't true. Rankings are a good indicator of the talent coming in. It isn't perfect, but typically highly ranked players make bigger impacts.

I would agree, but I think the point he is making is that once players start playing, you should judge them on how good they are, not what they were "ranked" coming in. For instance I'd rather have white and marble over Oglesby.....even though he was ranked higher coming in, the other 2 have proven that they are better players.

 

[Hawkstrat]

I would agree, but I think the point he is making is that once players start playing, you should judge them on how good they are, not what they were "ranked" coming in. For instance I'd rather have white and marble over Oglesby.....even though he was ranked higher coming in, the other 2 have proven that they are better players.

In that case, I agree 100%.

 

[ddiction]

Rankings are for fans and experts, but mean nothing until players hit the floor. For every Kevin Durant, there is a Steph Curry that was on nobody's radar.

I don't understand that comment unless it was a typo and you meant the opposite (which I suspect since it seems to contradict the other things you said). Rankings mean everything until players hit the floor, then the rankings drop in importance very quickly as the player accumulates D1 experience, then the rankings mean nothing. For big men the rankings probably stay important a little longer since they don't usually develop as quickly and see limited action as freshmen.

 

[herkyattack]

White being unranked is funny because he is probably going to be the best player in the game. If it isn't him, then I think Marble would be the next best player in the game and he was unranked as well.

Rankings are for fans and experts, but mean nothing until players hit the floor. For every Kevin Durant, there is a Steph Curry that was on nobody's radar.

Disagree with your last statement. White and Marble are anomalies in college basketball, not the rule. College basketball, more so than any other sport, is dominated by the top recruits.

Of the ten players who were selected to 1st or 2nd team All-America in 2013, only Olynyk and McDermott were not top 150 recruits. Six of the players (Porter, Withey, Smart, Zeller, Plumlee, McLemore) were top 50-60 recruits.

In 2012, only McDermott and Isaiah Canaan were not top 150 recruits. Again, six of the players (Anthony Davis, Kevin Jones, MKG, T. Zeller, Sullinger, T. Robinson) were top 50-60 recruits.

For every one Steph Curry that falls through the cracks, there are 3 or 4 highly recruited players that turn out just as successful. And the results from the NBA draft are even more in favor of the top recruits.

 

[Cydkar]

I don't really see ISU taking huge risks; as much as I like to bash the 'Clods and Coach Hilburke there is absolutely nothing telling me he is taking big risk when he is bringing in these transfers...White being probably the only one that came with any amount of risk.
Here is the thing; ISU is bringing in quality freshman on paper and some transfers. If Hoyturd was bringing in transfers and solely relying on them, the 'Clods would be bringing in less freshman. Yeah, he brought in a slew of transfers from all over the place, but the only real questionable one was White and he didn't burn the 'Clods or Heartburn.
One could argue he is building long term, but and I say this just looking at history, bringing in multiple JUCO's will not sustain long term success, but I will be surprised if the 'Clods continue to bring in more than two JUCO's per year moving forward.

He missed on a big or two that led to Edozie and Amardi. The goal is HS kids but if he misses it will be a juco kid. I think he'll go the juco route to fill gaps and to make up for missing out on primary HS talent until the end of his tenure. If that makes recruiting the next year more difficult so be it.

 

[Cydkar]

DeAndre Kane spit on an opposing fan and led the NCAAs in technical fouls one season. The MSU players were kicked off of their former teams.

THe MSU players were fine and I'll bet $100 to your $50 that Kane has no issues at ISU. Heck, last year I think he had 1 'T'. You talk to the kids and use your best judgement. Piece of cake. Some kids who've already screwed up are less of a risk than those who haven't. You just have to pick their brains first.

 

[deanvogs]

I'm beginning to think that Fred just isn't going to bring in a FR who isn't a top 100 type player. He is satisfied with finding JUCO's or transfers if he strikes out on the top 100. Fran is fine moving down his list onto other player like White, Clemmons, Olesani, etc.

If you think about it, this makes sense. Fran was at Mid Majors, and is used to looking for potential in players. Fred has an NBA background, and he wants obvious talent, and he will fill in his roster like free agents if he can't get the top 100 type talent.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I am reminded once again why I don't talk Iowa and/or Iowa State sports with my Iowa State friends. They wear blinders and are so hung up on hating Iowa that they can't think or see straight. They also tend to be uninformed and know nothing about the programs they love to hate with Iowa at the top of the list...Nebraska and Kansas are farther down this list.

This thread also reminds me of why I end up cheering against ISU when I really don't care what they do. It's their fans. I don't really have a problem with Fred or most of his players but I generally find their fans to have an intelligence level not much higher than the livestock they study. I can't believe some of the posters on this site actually risk becoming less intelligent by visiting their forums...definitely won't make anyone more intelligent or better informed...probably does provide some insight as to what a 5 or 6-year-old child may be thinking.

 

[DP5555]

You agree with LawVHawk, so let me ask you... His argument, which you agree with, is very frustrating for me to try to understand.

What exactly is the problem with Hoiberg's strategy as you see it and what do you think will happen because of it? I guess I am asking... what is the worst case scenario for Hoiberg and ISU as you see it? I'm honestly curious. What is going to "catch up with him"?

Well first let me say that I don't necessarily agree with Law's prediction that Fred will bounce for the NBA anytime soon. I'd say the possibility of that happening is pretty slim, but if he continues to improve Iowa State's program then eventually he'd have a shot. At his age, it would not be a shocker to me if he ended up trying it.

I don't necessarily think there is a "problem" with Hoiberg's strategy either. Clearly it is working. It's more so that I think Fran's strategy is going to start producing better results for the long term. I'll explain why. For one thing it is my opinion that the quality of transfers Fred's bringing in has declined. We'll see, but if that proves to be the case then it's pretty self explanatory how that will effect the team on the court. That's short term though. Maybe it will pick back up. What Fred is doing is getting his teams to the tournament. You can't argue with that. However, there are two main reasons I think Fran's strategy will end up making Iowa a more successful program than Iowa State:

1. Defense - Both Fred and Fran focus on scoring a lot of points. They employ different strategies to do so, but their goal is the same. The main difference between the two coaches to me is that whatever Fran is doing it's clear his teams are playing better defense. I'm not going to say Fred doesn't focus on it as much as Fran does because I don't know that. What I do know is that at this point if you have any sort of basketball IQ you can tell Iowa shows more defensive effort on the court than Iowa State does. If the defensive efforts remain the same and Iowa continues to improve offensively, which it has, then they are going to get better long term results.

2. Team Chemistry - Bringing in transfers year after year can have a major effect on team chemistry. Some years it will work better than others. It depends on the guys on the team and the guys coming in. It's a wild card. If a younger player has worked his *** off to earn playing time just to have a transfer come in and take his minutes that affects more than just his attitude. I don't want to write a novel here. I think you get the idea. Fran is doing things the opposite way. Will he bring in a transfer if it is a major need? Of course he will. However, for the most part he has built the team from the ground up and by the time these guys are juniors and seniors they will have played a ton of basketball together. That isn't something that can be taught. Their cohesion will show on the court, and usually that translates into converting W's.

 

[wardog23]

Iowa and ISU took different paths and each team is doing what they are/ were supposed to do.

 

[wardog23]

YellowSnow, Cydkar. I was posting as Hawkdog on CyFan and am banned. same email but decided to make sure they know who I was rooting for. I was banned for trolling? is this typical for CyFan? I don't understand the thin skin as you guys are pretty much doing the same over here as I did there..... weird stuff in that part of the state I guess

 

[hawkfan33]

YellowSnow, Cydkar. I was posting as Hawkdog on CyFan and am banned. same email but decided to make sure they know who I was rooting for. I was banned for trolling? is this typical for CyFan? I don't understand the thin skin as you guys are pretty much doing the same over here as I did there..... weird stuff in that part of the state I guess

Yes it is, they really don't like any outside opinons that ruin their group think circle jerk.

 

[wardog23]

pretty sure I was banned for saying that they live it a bubble, but they said so do we. They claimed that we are saying 4 tournament games is worse than the 0 we have been too. I proceeded to replay that I don't see that as worse. and explained that ISU went one was, Iowa went another. Both teams are where they should be.... and then got ridiculed for saying that I don't see that as worse. Clearly reading comprehension is not allowed there because I was basically saying that I think ISU has done better then Iowa..... Then I get banned. Also You would think I took a shot at them when I asked who the hell Hogue was and if he was involved in the fight at the CC he was at..... they did not like that either...... Honest questions. I am just confused as how they think only they can improve. It is fascinating to me really.

 

[wardog23]

pretty sure I was banned for saying that they live it a bubble, but then said so do we. They claimed that we are saying 4 tournament games is worse than the 0 we have been too. I proceeded to replay that I don't see that as worse. and explained that ISU went one was, Iowa went another. Both teams are where they should be.... and then got ridiculed for saying that I don't see that as worse. Clearly reading comprehension is not allowed there because I was basically saying that I think ISU has done better then Iowa..... Then I get banned. Also You would think I took a shot at them when I asked who the hell Hogue was and if he was involved in the fight at the CC he was at..... they did not like that either...... Honest questions. I am just confused as how they think only they can improve. It is fascinating to me really.

had to fix my own post....

 

[Campbell]

Yes it is, they really don't like any outside opinons that ruin their group think circle jerk.

Again, it's a good thing things are much different here.

 

[hawkfan33]

Again, it's a good thing things are much different here.

Absolutely, we allow trolls to hang around as long as they like. We don't have mods who ban any outside opinions.

 

[hawkfan33]

pretty sure I was banned for saying that they live it a bubble, but they said so do we. They claimed that we are saying 4 tournament games is worse than the 0 we have been too. I proceeded to replay that I don't see that as worse. and explained that ISU went one was, Iowa went another. Both teams are where they should be.... and then got ridiculed for saying that I don't see that as worse. Clearly reading comprehension is not allowed there because I was basically saying that I think ISU has done better then Iowa..... Then I get banned. Also You would think I took a shot at them when I asked who the hell Hogue was and if he was involved in the fight at the CC he was at..... they did not like that either...... Honest questions. I am just confused as how they think only they can improve. It is fascinating to me really.

They are a very sensitive bunch over there. Get in line with their thinking or get out.

 

[DP5555]

They are a very sensitive bunch over there. Get in line with their thinking or get out.

I said this on here the other day and got harassed for it. Mostly because because OOTH is butthurt cuz I ignore him so I thought it was kinda funny.

My only point was that you can get banned very quickly on CyFan simply for having a different opinion. The rope is a lot longer here. Which is a good thing because I think a lot of us enjoy the discussion. Specially during the off-season. Anyone should expect to get harassed when they visit a rival team's message boards. That part doesn't surprise me. I'm sure that's similar here. What surprises me is some of the posts I've seen from Hawk fans over there that have resulted in them getting banned. Seems you can't even manage to have a healthy debate. Who cares if you poke a few jabs in. That's called being rivals. It's all in good fun. That's why it isn't even worth visiting that site. Plenty of you Cyclone fans say things on this board that would get a Hawk fan banned from CyFan in a heartbeat. They are a thin skinned bunch.

 

[ibahawkeye]

Iowa is the better team. Hilton hosting rival Iowa keeps it close all the way to the end.

Give me the Hawks by 5.

 

[slickwillard]

Absolutely, we allow trolls to hang around as long as they like. We don't have mods who ban any outside opinions.

You just dont seem to understand what a troll is. A troll by definition is someone whose primary objective is to say inflammatory things just to stir up the pot. When someone from HN goes to CF and just spouts off a bunch of trash talk and never wants to actually discuss their opinion, they get booted. There are several great posters from here over there who have little issue discussing things like adults and have never been banned. Its common sense.