Iowa Basketball Recruits

tksirius said:
That would be an odd twist. Doesn't seem likely based on what we see publicly at least. Do you know something or just speculating?
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Just speculating. Playing devils advocate a bit in my head. The longer this kids development underwhelms though the more credence could be given to such a notion.
 
Adam said:
While I understand your point, it would not be wise to make wholesale assumptions about a prospect by their offer list. It is just as likely that Iowa and Iowa St haven't offered so why would any P6 coach from out of state bother to look. There is a pretty heavy lemming culture to college basketball recruiting. Also if I were Fran I would want the kid specifically for his defense(other programs may not need this as badly). Even if he is never anything other than a role player he could help to change the defensive mindset of the entire team. If nothing more than to show his teammates what on ball pressure feels like in practice. They obviously aren't getting that practice experience now.
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I'm not basing anything on his offer list. I said he didn't play with effort, in the games I watched. Not the kind of effort he should play with, if he wants to get P5 offers. I then went on to say that his skill level is such that he should have several P5 offers and the lack of effort could be why he isn't getting those offers.
Coaches have different expectations for different players. When I see an athletic kid playing too slow for his skill set, I think he's not giving max effort. I'm not the only coach that thinks this way. Every coach thinks this way.
 
Adam said:
Just speculating. Playing devils advocate a bit in my head. The longer this kids development underwhelms though the more credence could be given to such a notion.
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AAU coaches aren't going to lie to college coaches when they call and ask about a player. It's the quickest way to kill your ability to get these coaches to come back year after year and look at your team.
 
lightning1 said:
I'm not basing anything on his offer list. I said he didn't play with effort, in the games I watched. Not the kind of effort he should play with, if he wants to get P5 offers. I then went on to say that his skill level is such that he should have several P5 offers and the lack of effort could be why he isn't getting those offers.
Coaches have different expectations for different players. When I see an athletic kid playing too slow for his skill set, I think he's not giving max effort. I'm not the only coach that thinks this way. Every coach thinks this way.
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Pretty much 90% of Iowa's team fit this description last season on defense, so Fran should've offered long time ago. :eek:
 
Speaking of defense, Iowa is hosting this kid in the next few weeks. Don't know much about him, but I like that he plays with effort and has active hands on defense. Reminds me a bit of Frederick, but looks like a more active defender. Perhaps not as polished from the outside. Fran loves those wing players.

http://www.hudl.com/profile/6926748/Reed-Fenton
 
lightning1 said:
AAU coaches aren't going to lie to college coaches when they call and ask about a player. It's the quickest way to kill your ability to get these coaches to come back year after year and look at your team.
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Right on. There were actually some posters who said that Ferentz may have sabotaged Wadley's chances of getting drafted by giving an honest assessment of maturity problems he may have had early in his career. And this may have scared off the NFL. I said the following:

A) If the NFL was scared off by every college player who still had some growing up to do as a freshman, there wouldn't have been enough players to field a draft.

B) Word would get around quickly if Ferentz truly sabotaged Wadley and he would never get a decent recruit to answer his call again.

If AAU coaches were lying in a similar manner, not only would college coaches no longer check out the players they coach, they would probably have a hard time getting kids to play on the teams they coach. The kids would find someone else to play for.
 
lightning1 said:
I'm not basing anything on his offer list. I said he didn't play with effort, in the games I watched. Not the kind of effort he should play with, if he wants to get P5 offers. I then went on to say that his skill level is such that he should have several P5 offers and the lack of effort could be why he isn't getting those offers.
Coaches have different expectations for different players. When I see an athletic kid playing too slow for his skill set, I think he's not giving max effort. I'm not the only coach that thinks this way. Every coach thinks this way.
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I misunderstood.
 
Adam said:
If your worried about fouls then consider this. The average NCAA team averages 15 fouls a game. A single player could only account for 5 of them. If Locure was to commit 5 fouls a game that barley moves the needle. However if he cleanly steals even 1 or 2 balls that moves the needle towards the positive. The gamble is worth it for someone who has the propensity.
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I wasn't worried about team fouls. I was worried about my floor leader staying on the floor after attempting too much of what I think is not a team oriented play in the first place. He will pick his share of average to below average guards. The good ones will quickly find a way to turn that agressivness against him and his team. Its like a baseball player trying to go deep when he should be trying to move the runner over. He'll get a hold of one once in a while. But more often than not he will pop out or hit into double play and kill the inning.

If you gamble for that kind of steal, you are potentially putting your teammates in scramble mode and you better have protection behind you. Like Dikembe Mutombo in his prime or someone like that.
 
Northside Hawk said:
I wasn't worried about team fouls. I was worried about my floor leader staying on the floor after attempting too much of what I think is not a team oriented play in the first place. He will pick his share of average to below average guards. The good ones will quickly find a way to turn that agressivness against him and his team. Its like a baseball player trying to go deep when he should be trying to move the runner over. He'll get a hold of one once in a while. But more often than not he will pop out or hit into double play and kill the inning.

If you gamble for that kind of steal, you are potentially putting your teammates in scramble mode and you better have protection behind you. Like Dikembe Mutombo in his prime or someone like that.
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actually, if you are a home run hitter, then you should be trying to go deep. If you are a singles hitter, then you should be trying to move the runners. i'm assuming your example was of a last inning at bat of a team that is behind.

my point is that you should play within your abilities. home run hitters shouldn't be bunting. singles hitters shouldn't be pointing to center field. pg's who are quick and good timing on defense should "learn the correct way" to use that quickness and timing to play defense. you are correct that it must be learned and there would be lumps, but reward could possibly be a pg that can cut of the head of the snake, defensively.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
actually, if you are a home run hitter, then you should be trying to go deep. If you are a singles hitter, then you should be trying to move the runners. i'm assuming your example was of a last inning at bat of a team that is behind.

my point is that you should play within your abilities. home run hitters shouldn't be bunting. singles hitters shouldn't be pointing to center field. pg's who are quick and good timing on defense should "learn the correct way" to use that quickness and timing to play defense. you are correct that it must be learned and there would be lumps, but reward could possibly be a pg that can cut of the head of the snake, defensively.
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I'll point out my thirteen year old son as an example. He is 5'9" quick and has long arms. His strength as a defender is using his quickness and long arms to deny the ball, especially if he is defending the point guard, once that player gives it up. In tandem with his teammates, he can isolate the ball to one side of the floor, then to a quarter of the floor, then into a trap because the point guard has passed the ball to a lesser ball handler and can't get it back. That's how you cut the head off the snake defensively. He's worked on picking his spots to gamble and accordingly is staying on the floor longer.

You offered a good baseball analogy. The trick is convincing 20 home run guys that they're not power hitters and don't have to go for the downs 90% of their at bats. They will produce more offense in the long run by adding 40 points to their average and cutting their strikeouts in half. I was trying to point out that even Gioncarlo Stanton will strike out and fail to move a runner more than he will take a pitcher deep and that frequently kills innings. Just like a Locure type player gambling for the pocket pick will more often than not put his team in a lurch. In baseball, a smart pitcher will turn a batters overagressiveness against him and induce weak ground balls. Similarly in basketball, a smart point guard will use and opponents overagressiveness against him and foul him right off the floor. And while certain things can be taught, the smart pitcher, or player will win the battle more often than not.
 
ArvadaHawk said:
i think this was pretty much called by many analysts. TT has a very high priority with academics, so standford almost seemed the like only choice for him. good for him. he has a wonderful opportunity.
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At least he's out of conference and not going to Northwestern. Best of luck to him.
 
Northside Hawk said:
I'll point out my thirteen year old son as an example. He is 5'9" quick and has long arms. His strength as a defender is using his quickness and long arms to deny the ball, especially if he is defending the point guard, once that player gives it up. In tandem with his teammates, he can isolate the ball to one side of the floor, then to a quarter of the floor, then into a trap because the point guard has passed the ball to a lesser ball handler and can't get it back. That's how you cut the head off the snake defensively. He's worked on picking his spots to gamble and accordingly is staying on the floor longer.

You offered a good baseball analogy. The trick is convincing 20 home run guys that they're not power hitters and don't have to go for the downs 90% of their at bats. They will produce more offense in the long run by adding 40 points to their average and cutting their strikeouts in half. I was trying to point out that even Gioncarlo Stanton will strike out and fail to move a runner more than he will take a pitcher deep and that frequently kills innings. Just like a Locure type player gambling for the pocket pick will more often than not put his team in a lurch. In baseball, a smart pitcher will turn a batters overagressiveness against him and induce weak ground balls. Similarly in basketball, a smart point guard will use and opponents overagressiveness against him and foul him right off the floor. And while certain things can be taught, the smart pitcher, or player will win the battle more often than not.
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think we're in sync here, NSH. maturity and learning. kids do it at different rates. some do it early and learn easily, some don't and don't. most are in between. i think we're both saying "harness" the player, not the talent. utilize the talent.
 
lightning1 said:
There's 2 kinds of steals. The steals where the on ball defender has active hands and tips passes and his nearest teammate gets the steal. This kind of defender maintains proper defensive position and never gambles for steals, leaving his team defense in a bad spot.
Then there's the kind of steal where the on ball defender reaches/over plays on and off the ball to get steals himself. He fails to get the steal far more times than he succeeds, picking up silly fouls and hanging his teammates out to dry behind him. I've coached both types and I'd rather have the first kind of steal/defender.
I don't know which one of these Tyreke Locure is but I know which one coaches want.
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The previously mentioned Aaron Craft was a master at both, which is why he was such a devil to play against defensively. Here's where Craft truly had an advantage over most of the competition.

1) He moved his feet well.

2) His hands, while quick, were never wider than the plane of his or his opponent's shoulders, so he seldom gave the impression of reaching.

3) Like Josh Gasser and Zac Showalter, he had strong hands and wrists. If he had to he would rip the ball right out of his opponent's hands.

Using all this in factoral progression and geometric combinations, he naturally was granted plenty of levity by refs, which allowed him to get away with as much as any guard in the league.

I remember him stripping Melsahn Basabe three possessions out of four (and probably getting away with contact on at least two of them) by literally chopping Basabe's hand/wrist area with his own wrist. He may have been the one who broke Penn State Taylor Battle's wrist with a similar chop. But he got away with it. Because he was smart and picked his spots and made sure it was within the team concept.
 
Northside Hawk said:
The previously mentioned Aaron Craft was a master at both, which is why he was such a devil to play against defensively. Here's where Craft truly had an advantage over most of the competition.

1) He moved his feet well.

2) His hands, while quick, were never wider than the plane of his or his opponent's shoulders, so he seldom gave the impression of reaching.

3) Like Josh Gasser and Zac Showalter, he had strong hands and wrists. If he had to he would rip the ball right out of his opponent's hands.

Using all this in factoral progression and geometric combinations, he naturally was granted plenty of levity by refs, which allowed him to get away with as much as any guard in the league.

I remember him stripping Melsahn Basabe three possessions out of four (and probably getting away with contact on at least two of them) by literally chopping Basabe's hand/wrist area with his own wrist. He may have been the one who broke Penn State Taylor Battle's wrist with a similar chop. But he got away with it. Because he was smart and picked his spots and made sure it was within the team concept.
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He was allowed to get away with murder. He should have fouled out in the first half of every game he played.
 
lightning1 said:
He was allowed to get away with murder. He should have fouled out in the first half of every game he played.
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No argument there. He was doing what he was allowed to get away with. Gasser and Showalter, too. And Purdue frequently has a couple of those guys. Everytime we try to cut across the lane in our offense their hands are all over us.
 
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