Hmm. Maybe I'm Off My Rocker but.....

Hawk5656 said:
Even if you go by per 40 numbers Marble was a better scorer, shot better from the floor, was a better rebounder and was better at taking care of the ball than CW was as a freshman. I never said Marble was great as a freshman but CW only scored 27 points on the entire season last year. That's like watching 4 non conference games and determining from that a player is better than someone who had a full season to compare to
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5656, you've missed the point, yet again! You guys can argue about who was better between Williams and Marble all you want, the fact of the matter is neither of them were anything special as Freshman.

The POINT is that players like Marble, Peter Jok, and hundreds of other throughout the history of college basketball made vast improvements to their games between their Freshman and Sophmore years. Some guys take time to develop there bodies, learn the system, and fine tune their game. Again I don't think you understand this concept.

Look I don't care if you think CW is going to suck and our PG play will be our weakness, I really don't. I care that you think it is a forgone conclusion that, as you put it "PG play will be our Achilles heel and undoubtedly worse than last year." You haven't even given CW a chance, which is really quite shameful, and makes me wonder if you're even a hawk fan.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
5656, you've missed the point, yet again! You guys can argue about who was better between Williams and Marble all you want, the fact of the matter is neither of them were anything special as Freshman.

The POINT is that players like Marble, Peter Jok, and hundreds of other throughout the history of college basketball made vast improvements to their games between their Freshman and Sophmore years. Some guys take time to develop there bodies, learn the system, and fine tune their game. Again I don't think you understand this concept.

Look I don't care if you think CW is going to suck and our PG play will be our weakness, I really don't. I care that you think it is a forgone conclusion that, as you put it "PG play will be our Achilles heel and undoubtedly worse than last year." You haven't even given CW a chance, which is really quite shameful, and makes me wonder if you're even a hawk fan.
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Mike was honorable mention all conference, CW will not be this year. Our PG will be worse than last year
 
PCHawk said:
I say stats don't matter because they were on two completely different team (which is common sense) and you bring out more stats. I'll say it a different way. When Marble played, our team sucked so he was asked to do more. When Williams played, our team was good so he was asked to defer to other players.

It's not like he played in the non conference then disappeared. He was trending up towards the end of the year. You must turn the channel in garbage time if you have to ask what plays he made. There was a few times where I thought that Gesell has been here 4 years and has never done that.
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Marble was on a worse team and still had a higher field goal percentage and still had a better assist to turnover ratio. Thanks for proving my point
 
Hawk5656 said:
Marble was on a worse team and still had a higher field goal percentage and still had a better assist to turnover ratio. Thanks for proving my point
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Who cares about field goal percentage comparison when Williams shot such few shots?
 
PCHawk said:
Who cares about field goal percentage comparison when Williams shot such few shots?
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You're the one who's talking about how good he was last year now we can't judge his stats because he had too small of a sample size? Pick a side
 
Hawk5656 said:
You're the one who's talking about how good he was last year now we can't judge his stats because he had too small of a sample size? Pick a side
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It's pretty obvious Fran leaned towards playing the experienced seniors last year. I didn't really like it at times but I understood it.
 
Hawk5656 said:
He was honorable mention and if he was still here he'd play the majority of the PG minutes
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So do you think he was really the 3rd best or do you think he got it because he was a known name with a bunch of assists, most of which came from Jok and Uthoff knocking down jumpers?
 
PCHawk said:
I don't think he's trolling. There is some sense in his logic but he is seeing everything in the most pessimistic possible way. Some people are like that.
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I've tried to reason with him. He doesn't respond to my post, he just replies with something else in order to get a response and derail threads. He's done it successfully multiple times. He just did it above.
 
Hawk5656 said:
Are you related to CW? Way too small of a sample size to say something that crazy
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You have to admit that it he has a point. Marble got more minutes because the team he was on as a freshman was horrible. CW as a freshman didn't get those minutes because the team was much better.
 
Knight78 said:
You have to admit that it he has a point. Marble got more minutes because the team he was on as a freshman was horrible. CW as a freshman didn't get those minutes because the team was much better.
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Oh I completely agree but how can someone say CW was just as good or better than Marble as a freshman?
 
Hawk5656 said:
Oh I completely agree but how can someone say CW was just as good or better than Marble as a freshman?
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I don't think Williams was just as good as Marble as a freshman, but I do think he was better. He was a pretty good shooter in high school. I think he shot over fifty percent from the field and around forty percent from the three point line. His high school situation for basketball was unclear when he went back to his catholic high school. He still made all state in Illinois both his junior and senior years. I suppose Marble went to a bigger high school than Williams did.
 
Hawk5656 said:
Oh I completely agree but how can someone say CW was just as good or better than Marble as a freshman?
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It's not even really a compliment to say he was as good as Marble as a freshman. I don't think you remember him as a freshman if you think my comment is that out of line.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I've tried to reason with him. He doesn't respond to my post, he just replies with something else in order to get a response and derail threads. He's done it successfully multiple times. He just did it above.
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You can always look for reasons why an unknown player will be good or look for reasons why he will be bad. All the points I've seen from both sides make sense. But why try so hard to convince other fans how bad a player is going to suck? Maybe he will suck, who knows. It just seems weird to me to try so hard to convince people he will suck, all the while blowing off every reason other people point out for why he might be good.
 
PCHawk said:
It's not even really a compliment to say he was as good as Marble as a freshman. I don't think you remember him as a freshman if you think my comment is that out of line.
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It just makes no sense, it's like saying Fleming was just as good as Marble as a freshman. Now you're implying Marble wasn't that good as a freshman but he was statistically better than CW as a freshman who you were impressed by last year
 
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