If Williams is not a 1, at what position would he be more productive, as PC pointed out? Fran feels he has the handle to play there. Are you saying that a 6'7" guy with good but not elite quickness can't play at the 1? That's true of Gesell as well and he was 6'1". Gesell and some of Izzo's PGs a few years back were converted 2Gs. Why not a 6'7" guy, especially when the coach says he can?
Hmm. Maybe I'm Off My Rocker but.....
- Thread starter MelroseHawkins
- Start date
Marble wasn't a 1 either. But was there really a difference in his play when he played point? I don't see how it will affect his scoring at all, especially in Fran's system. I'm excited to have our shortest starter at 6'6" instead of having two 6'1" guys.
Fran also went after Charlie Moore a second time to upgrade the position so just because he thinks Williams is our best option there doesn't mean it's a great thing. I'm sure if Fran had the choice he'd rather have him play his natural position. Also Williams is 6'5 not 6'7
I agree, it might not affect his scoring. I don't know that'd I'd be so sure it's going to help his scoring playing out of position but time will tell. Also I'd rather have a 6'1 true PG than a 6'5 wing playing PG but different taste for different people
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
We may want to finally admit that discussions about "traditional" definitions for Fran's players are essentially irrelevant. He does not have a traditional center. His forwards are interchangeable. His shooting guard can be anyone from Bohannon to Marble. His point guard may be 6'6" or 6'1". And, Fran does not really care. He wants long, athletic basketball players who can drive, shoot, rebound and play disruptive defense. End of story.
Fran is always trying to upgrade every position. I would be more worried if he was going after a half assed grad transfer to play point. Trying to upgrade with a top 100 player doesn't mean the players you have suck.
If you follow who Fran has recruited at the PG position he wants a traditional PG, he just hasn't gotten the ones he's wanted. If he doesn't get the traditional PG he wants it appears he'd rather try something different
I agree and I never said CW is going to suck I just said just because you have someone starting a position doesn't mean Fran is comfortable with it. We missed out on a lot of PG recruits in this last class so we really don't know what Fran is thinking
Fran went after Charlie Moore and got Bohannon instead as a SECOND PG, similar to Gesell/Clemons in the same class. I think Fran sees Williams as a PG because that's where he's going to be most productive. Isn't that how you 'ultimately' determine the best position for a player?
I'm calling Williams 6'7" after Coach Dillard said in an interview last summer that, despite what they were listed at, Williams is very close to 6'7" and Wagner is really only barely 6'6".
We officially list him at 6'5. I don't know of a team that has ever listed a player shorter than they are, especially by two inches. Wagner is 6'7
Williams could be good in the future, but it's hard to know if it's this year. I've consistently doubted Fran and his ability to develop guys, but every year he's produced a player that really outpaced people's expectations of them. White, Uthoff, Marble, etc. Best case scenario for Williams would be the Marble jump from freshman to sophomore. If Iowa can get that production from him that would be awesome and IMO they are back in the tourney.
The question is how big of a jump can he make - Marble was still a pretty productive player for a freshman, almost 6 PPG and 20 MPG. Williams only played more than 10 minutes in 2 games all year, didn't play in 10 of the Big 10 games, and scored only 27 points all year. I can't think of a single player to go from playing that little to scoring double figures. Not impossible obviously but not something that should be expected at all.
As far as the height thing, it gets overplayed. Would you rather have 6'7" Shaun Livingston or 6'1" Steph Curry? You'd take Curry. Good offense is good offense.
The question is how big of a jump can he make - Marble was still a pretty productive player for a freshman, almost 6 PPG and 20 MPG. Williams only played more than 10 minutes in 2 games all year, didn't play in 10 of the Big 10 games, and scored only 27 points all year. I can't think of a single player to go from playing that little to scoring double figures. Not impossible obviously but not something that should be expected at all.
As far as the height thing, it gets overplayed. Would you rather have 6'7" Shaun Livingston or 6'1" Steph Curry? You'd take Curry. Good offense is good offense.
Michael Payne I think was listed shorter than he turned out to be in NBA combine- I believe by 2 inches.
Williams will not be another RDM. I'm hoping he'll be another Sapp Clemmons. At the limit of his potential, I'm thinking Aaron Craft. At 6'7", that would be a handful to prep for by an opposing team.
Anyone else you can think of in the last two decades?
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
They don't look to be two inches different to me. CW actually has his legs a little wider, might be just as tall if not taller than Wagner.
I have no idea what happened to this thread 
I think to summarize, or at least what I mentioned like 5 pages ago, we can all nearly agree on:
1) PG play has held us back for several years. Its been just average at best. Not a knock on former players, they gave their all and were great representations of the U.
2) We have no idea what we'll get this year, it won't be all big-ten, most likely we are still lacking at the PG position but maybe they'll surprise us a little. Shooting wise it can't get much worse can it, as far as little threat to really do anything from the perimeter? Running the offense and defensively we could be about the same or take a big dip. If we are pleasantly surprised by our PG play this year we could be dancing maybe a year ahead of schedule.
3) Fran still needs just that one elite PG recruit to take us to the next level. It hasn't been from lack of effort, for some reason just hasn't landed one.
Go Hawks!
I think to summarize, or at least what I mentioned like 5 pages ago, we can all nearly agree on:
1) PG play has held us back for several years. Its been just average at best. Not a knock on former players, they gave their all and were great representations of the U.
2) We have no idea what we'll get this year, it won't be all big-ten, most likely we are still lacking at the PG position but maybe they'll surprise us a little. Shooting wise it can't get much worse can it, as far as little threat to really do anything from the perimeter? Running the offense and defensively we could be about the same or take a big dip. If we are pleasantly surprised by our PG play this year we could be dancing maybe a year ahead of schedule.
3) Fran still needs just that one elite PG recruit to take us to the next level. It hasn't been from lack of effort, for some reason just hasn't landed one.
Go Hawks!
Fran goes after skill sets, not positions. That's something I have to remind myself of as well. When we were recruiting Watson for 2016 (who went to NE instead), we already had 2 guards that were going to play PG and be ahead of him. What did Fran have to sell the kid as far as immediate PT? Quite a lot as it turned out. We could definitely have used his skill set in the rotation.
Once they are at Iowa, Fran talks positions on the O side. He says Uhl, JU, and White were all 3s. What's my point in this? If Moore would have come here with JB and Williams, Fran would have played them all as 1s offensively, because that's their most productive position. Same thing happened with Clemons/Gesell in the same lineup.
I think we've mostly lacked a third consistent scoring option. An elite PG is the easy answer to that problem, I agree, but not the only one. We could have several 3rd scoring options emerge on the present team with a D-first primary PG.I have no idea what happened to this thread
I think to summarize, or at least what I mentioned like 5 pages ago, we can all nearly agree on:
1) PG play has held us back for several years. Its been just average at best. Not a knock on former players, they gave their all and were great representations of the U.
2) We have no idea what we'll get this year, it won't be all big-ten, most likely we are still lacking at the PG position but maybe they'll surprise us a little. Shooting wise it can't get much worse can it, as far as little threat to really do anything from the perimeter? Running the offense and defensively we could be about the same or take a big dip. If we are pleasantly surprised by our PG play this year we could be dancing maybe a year ahead of schedule.
3) Fran still needs just that one elite PG recruit to take us to the next level. It hasn't been from lack of effort, for some reason just hasn't landed one.
Go Hawks!
I trust the official roster over an Instagram picture. I think Wagner is 6'7
