Hey look....Willies to Texas Tech

[HawkeyeWalker]

so, Noone knows why Willies left, if he was injured or how much so, what the conversation was between he and KF was, or what these "stipulations" were? got it.

We do know he flat out quit mid season, Mid Season! and it doesn't seem to be for reason he stated about his father.

He gone. Not a Hawkeye. The rest is absolute speculation.

For the love of pete, /thread.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

so, Noone knows why Willies left, if he was injured or how much so, what the conversation was between he and KF was, or what these "stipulations" were? got it.

We do know he flat out quit mid season, Mid Season! and it doesn't seem to be for reason he stated about his father.

He gone. Not a Hawkeye. The rest is absolute speculation.

For the love of pete, /thread.

Then don't read and respond to a thread that has Willies name in the title.

The thing that is interesting is that there is more than one dynamic to this specific situation. Willies quit mid-season. That was wrong and I don't think many, if any folks are defending that. But, the underlying reason(s) why he quit are open for discussion. That is what this thread is discussing.

 

[trj]

so, Noone knows why Willies left, if he was injured or how much so, what the conversation was between he and KF was, or what these "stipulations" were? got it.

We do know he flat out quit mid season, Mid Season! and it doesn't seem to be for reason he stated about his father.

He gone. Not a Hawkeye. The rest is absolute speculation.

For the love of pete, /thread.

I get what you are saying and the piling on is a little tired, the debate in this thread however reflects a bigger picture something that goes waaay beyond Willies. It centers around the HC and his systematic approach to everything. Given the results the last five years I do not have an issue with people 2nd guessing it.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Then don't read and respond to a thread that has Willies name in the title.

The thing that is interesting is that there is more than one dynamic to this specific situation. Willies quit mid-season. That was wrong and I don't think many, if any folks are defending that. But, the underlying reason(s) why he quit are open for discussion. That is what this thread is discussing.

so, any new theories on why he quit?

it's circular.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

I get what you are saying and the piling on is a little tired, the debate in this thread however reflects a bigger picture something that goes waaay beyond Willies. It centers around the HC and his systematic approach to everything. Given the results the last five years I do not have an issue with people 2nd guessing it.

I get it. It's not the piling on that is tiresome, hell, that's the nature of message boards. And the criticism of KF has become increasingly warranted. It's the fact that, concerning Willies specifically, is that the known data supports his decision to quit was more of a Willies issue, than a KF issue.

There are problems with recruiting, attrition overall, and that is absolutely on KF (so is much of the in game coaching issues). Again, concerning Willies, the only thing we know for sure is he quit, was at least dinged up for a few weeks (per actual articles posted).

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

so, any new theories on why he quit?

it's circular.

I'll add, if you don't like my post, don't reply to it.

 

[RocknRollface]

I get it. It's not the piling on that is tiresome, hell, that's the nature of message boards. And the criticism of KF has become increasingly warranted. It's the fact that, concerning Willies specifically, is that the known data supports his decision to quit was more of a Willies issue, than a KF issue.

There are problems with recruiting, attrition overall, and that is absolutely on KF (so is much of the in game coaching issues). Again, concerning Willies, the only thing we know for sure is he quit, was at least dinged up for a few weeks (per actual articles posted).

The whole thing is a Ferentz issue. From players constantly leaving, to bad hires, nepotism, to a losing record against ISU.

He is responsible for what is going on in his program.

 

[trj]

I get it. It's not the piling on that is tiresome, hell, that's the nature of message boards. And the criticism of KF has become increasingly warranted. It's the fact that, concerning Willies specifically, is that the known data supports his decision to quit was more of a Willies issue, than a KF issue.

There are problems with recruiting, attrition overall, and that is absolutely on KF (so is much of the in game coaching issues). Again, concerning Willies, the only thing we know for sure is he quit, was at least dinged up for a few weeks (per actual articles posted).

Fair enough. We are saying the same things just in a different way. It just feels like if the Willies situation was handle differently it could have worked out for everyone. I am a middle age dude, so it is not the world I grew up in, it feels like the old military approach of breaking them down and building them back up doesn't work with milionnials(sp?).

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

The whole thing is a Ferentz issue. From players constantly leaving, to bad hires, nepotism, to a losing record against ISU.

He is responsible for what is going on in his program.

I tend to agree more and more. The record against isu is indefensible. In my opinion, however, from the data that is available, I do not believe Willies leaving is on KF. Other issues, absolutely.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Fair enough. We are saying the same things just in a different way. It just feels like if the Willies situation was handle differently it could have worked out for everyone. I am a middle age dude, so it is not the world I grew up in, it feels like the old military approach of breaking them down and building them back up doesn't work with milionnials(sp?).

I agree. KF'S overall personnel handling may not work with today's athletes, at least not some of them. But again, no one really knows how he handled the Willies situation.

 

[PCHawk]

I tend to agree more and more. The record against isu is indefensible. In my opinion, however, from the data that is available, I do not believe Willies leaving is on KF. Other issues, absolutely.

Willies could have stuck around but he chose to leave. That decision isn't on Kirk. What gets me is people saw how talented he was, saw how under utilized he was, and feared he would leave before he ever left. If it was a one time thing i wouldn't think much of it. The fact that it's been a trend with Kirk for a long time is what I don't like. The Willis situation is just the latest example. Even if Kirk wasn't in the wrong whats so ever on this one it doesn't matter to me. There have been to many for me to believe that he doesn't have a hand in it. Kinda like the boy who cried wolf. You can only do it so many times before you lose trust.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

so, any new theories on why he quit?

it's circular.

Willies said it was to be closer to his dad. Ferentz reiterated that. CJ Beathard said it was also due to lack of playing time and spoke at length in his interview about how that was affecting Willies' decision. Willies' guardian said it was all about playing time. Ferentz described the guardian as genuine and having Willies best interests at heart.

Willies played the entire PU game, then was described by ferentz as having a muscle strain and DNP against IU. Willies dressed at MD but DNP.

So, he quit because of playing time and to be closer to his dad. The real question is why wasn't he getting playing time? If you think it was because of a muscle strain. Okay. Ferentz sure let Scherff play the same week as having minor knee surgery. The point being that knee surgery is far more likely to keep you out of a game than a muscle strain. Anyone that played at least through HS has heard "walk it off" so it seems odd a muscle strain kept Willies out of 2 games when he wanted to play. So, you tell me why he quit. Because it is important and significant that he did.

 

[deanvogs]

The real question is why wasn't he getting playing time?

This is where your beef is at? That is easy, he had a muscle strain, and many times athletes just want to play and don't consider their future health. Those can take a long time to heal. Also a blind monkey could see he was having obvious problems with focus when he was on the field. He wasn't in the proper position, he wasn't making the proper reads, and he was running sloppy routes. He had 4 freaking catches is all, and he had wayyyy more than that mis reads, and sloppy routes.

You may not like it, and you may be of the opinion that you play talent regardless of how many mistakes that talent is making. Yet we all know KF M.O. his thought is you make a young player better by MAKING them focus on the small details (the reads, the routes, etc.). KF thinks this is how you help a talented player realize their full potential.

Maybe he is outdated, maybe he should just play the kid even if he doesn't practice hard, have a good attitude, makes poor reads and runs poor routes. Maybe he should get with the times, and just play them despite those things....but those are entirely different questions than the one you posed.

 

[ArvadaHawk]

This is where your beef is at? That is easy, he had a muscle strain, and many times athletes just want to play and don't consider their future health. Those can take a long time to heal. Also a blind monkey could see he was having obvious problems with focus when he was on the field. He wasn't in the proper position, he wasn't making the proper reads, and he was running sloppy routes. He had 4 freaking catches is all, and he had wayyyy more than that mis reads, and sloppy routes.

You may not like it, and you may be of the opinion that you play talent regardless of how many mistakes that talent is making. Yet we all know KF M.O. his thought is you make a young player better by MAKING them focus on the small details (the reads, the routes, etc.). KF thinks this is how you help a talented player realize their full potential.

Maybe he is outdated, maybe he should just play the kid even if he doesn't practice hard, have a good attitude, makes poor reads and runs poor routes. Maybe he should get with the times, and just play them despite those things....but those are entirely different questions than the one you posed.

Dean, muscle strains can also be as simple as a Charlie horse or a slight soreness that's better within a day or two. Hell, I played through strained calf muscles and thigh bruises. So, a muscle "strain" is not a pull or a tear, so let's not make it more than what it was reported by kfootball to be. Now, if he missed practice time leading up to the IU game and didn't play...okay, coaches decision. But then to dress on the road the following week at MD and not play makes no sense and doesn't add up.

You can practice all you want Sun - Fri, but until your facing the opponent on the field, facing the opposing teams coaches calls, in-game and seeing and digesting the action, you really can't learn. I saw an inconsistent RS FR, to be sure, but I also saw high effort and a kid whose head was in the game. Go rewatch the PU game and you'll see Willies run some good routes, miss a "hot" by CJ inside the 5 yard line but also have at least two very good blocks. Willies wasn't dogging it. He didn't have a poor attitude on the field.

 

[RocknRollface]

This is where your beef is at? That is easy, he had a muscle strain, and many times athletes just want to play and don't consider their future health. Those can take a long time to heal. Also a blind monkey could see he was having obvious problems with focus when he was on the field. He wasn't in the proper position, he wasn't making the proper reads, and he was running sloppy routes. He had 4 freaking catches is all, and he had wayyyy more than that mis reads, and sloppy routes.

You may not like it, and you may be of the opinion that you play talent regardless of how many mistakes that talent is making. Yet we all know KF M.O. his thought is you make a young player better by MAKING them focus on the small details (the reads, the routes, etc.). KF thinks this is how you help a talented player realize their full potential.

Maybe he is outdated, maybe he should just play the kid even if he doesn't practice hard, have a good attitude, makes poor reads and runs poor routes. Maybe he should get with the times, and just play them despite those things....but those are entirely different questions than the one you posed.

a blind monkey could have seen that?

Any specific examples other than the two missed hot reads he failed to notice?

You went back and broke down the film of all of his routes that he wasn't thrown to on?

That seems hard to believe.

He's couldn't have been thrown at more than 6 or 7 times all year. How could you even know what his reads were?

This argument is pointless. If you believe in Ferentz great.

Yes Willies was a ******* but this situation of young talent stuck behind mediocre older players and hard working walkons has repeated itself too often for me to not believe the issue is systemic.

I have no faith whatsoever in a guys judgment who chooses to play it safe all the way to six fukin losses.

 

[deanvogs]

a blind monkey could have seen that?

Any specific examples other than the two missed hot reads he failed to notice?

You went back and broke down the film of all of his routes that he wasn't thrown to on?

That seems hard to believe.

He's couldn't have been thrown at more than 6 or 7 times all year. How could you even know what his reads were?

This argument is pointless. If you believe in Ferentz great.

Yes Willies was a ******* but this situation of young talent stuck behind mediocre older players and hard working walkons has repeated itself too often for me to not believe the issue is systemic.

I have no faith whatsoever in a guys judgment who chooses to play it safe all the way to six fukin losses.

Where do I every say KF "is great".

I hope whoever the next coach is also makes the players devote time an energy to get the small things right, to run proper routes, to make the proper reads. This over the long hauls makes a player better. There is nothing wrong with coaches using playing time (especially with a RS FR for Gawd's sake) to try to make them focus on the details more. Countless players have come through the program that say they just didn't get that as a young player, but when they did, they became much, much better players.

He was getting playing time, he was in the rotations. He just needed to work on the details more, and that was obvious. Are you trying to say that KF should have just played Willies over KMM and Smith and he should have been thrown into the Starting lineup? If so, that is beyond ridiculous. He was getting worked into the WR rotation, I mean people act like KF had him freaking buried on the 4th string or something.

 

[HawkeyeWalker]

Willies would probably have started this year. But he quit, so he won't (well, maybe somewhere else)

 

[BleednGumsMrphy]

its a shame that he wont be a hawkeye, had quite a talent. But the reason he left is because he didnt see how a WR could thrive under this offense. At least he will be at a place that is a WR paradise, even if Texas Tech does suck.

 

[RocknRollface]

Where do I every say KF "is great".

I hope whoever the next coach is also makes the players devote time an energy to get the small things right, to run proper routes, to make the proper reads. This over the long hauls makes a player better. There is nothing wrong with coaches using playing time (especially with a RS FR for Gawd's sake) to try to make them focus on the details more. Countless players have come through the program that say they just didn't get that as a young player, but when they did, they became much, much better players.

He was getting playing time, he was in the rotations. He just needed to work on the details more, and that was obvious. Are you trying to say that KF should have just played Willies over KMM and Smith and he should have been thrown into the Starting lineup? If so, that is beyond ridiculous. He was getting worked into the WR rotation, I mean people act like KF had him freaking buried on the 4th string or something.

I said if you believe him, great.

My whole point is the proof of his methods is in the pudding.

Lots of transfers, low scoring, and mediocre records.

Sometimes getting the small things right doesn't trump athleticism.

Line play and defense, sure, but with offensive skill players talent usually wins out.

You throw a ball up for grabs between two guys and the biggest best athlete will come down with it more often than not.

 

[deanvogs]

I said if you believe him, great.

My whole point is the proof of his methods is in the pudding.

Lots of transfers, low scoring, and mediocre records.

Sometimes getting the small things right doesn't trump athleticism.

Line play and defense, sure, but with offensive skill players talent usually wins out.

You throw a ball up for grabs between two guys and the biggest best athlete will come down with it more often than not.

You act like Willies was a 5* kid who's athleticism was actually producing results on the field. He was splitting time with other WR, because he couldn't separate from this group. If Dereck freaking Willies was such an athlete, how come he couldn't elevate above those he was splitting time with? If he is soooo awesome, why don't we see the results on the field in game time?

7 catches 75 yds
3 catches 62 yds
4 catches 71 yds

Then you have Diamond Powell who had 6 catches for 157 yds. Seriously with all the mistakes DW was making, and considering he didn't produce anything on the field that the others were producing, a coach is just supposed to cut all playing time for Powell, Hillyer, and MV for the "supremely" talented DW???

You guys are just using Willies leaving as confirmation bias of everything wrong with the program. To me that is just lazy intellectual thinking. If you take Willies leaving as an individual event, there is nothing there. KF didn't do anything wrong here, except getting a RS FR into the WR rotations. Willies was playing as many downs as Hillyar, and MV, but less than Powell. He then was injured after 5 games, and soon after he quit. He was a big part of the WR rotations, he was playing as much as any of them.

I wouldn't want any other coach at Iowa to handle it any differently. You think Beliema would let some RS FR kid quit the team, and then he would go suck their *ick to get them back???? LOLOL if you think that huge ego maniac would chase after a 3* Willies who was making simple read and route mistakes on the field. Only an internet poster or some kid playing video games promotes Willis to get everyone else playing time while producing like he was.