Hawkeyes Past, Present, Future Share Feelings on Racial Injustice

[Xerxes]

Maybe standing in locked arms is an option for the Hawkeyes.

I would really like to see this at Iowa but I really hope individuals are allowed to do as they see fit.

 

[Motigerhawk]

Agree that it would be a powerful statement, and that it would lead to some response. But when you say "change would happen very fast", what exactly do you mean? Because it certainly is not going to fix the problem of systemic racism. Like all other complex problems, the solution is not simple and obvious, if it was, it would be fixed by now.

The country and white people (most of them) have not been actively trying to suppress black people. There has not been someone with his finger on the "racism" button, and all of a sudden we ask him to take it off. Rather, systems created over the course of the last several hundred years have created this imbalance. And white people either did not care enough about the pight of black people to try to upend these systems and create disorder in their lives, or they did not believe the plight of black people, or they did not want to lose the privileges they had been affored, or what have you. But how do you rework systems built up over centuries in short order?

I think the George Floyd incident, and the civil unrest across the country, will create an unprecedented urge to work toward a solution, but I think many people will be very frustrated when 5 years from now, progress has remained slow.

And I have no idea what the initial steps would even be. If anyone has information to share on a potential roadmap toward a better place, I would be interested in reading what people are proposing.

I believe the first steps taken would to stop police brutality. There have been suggestions posted here that make sense. And if sports stopped, I believe there would be a quick response to SERIOUSLY implement a plan to stop police brutality.
Do you think systematic racism starts at the too? Wouldnt employers be more likely to understand that Jamal isnt a lesser person than Kevin if there was real dialogue when sports stopped? I think sports is so ingrained that people would take a hard look at some things and realize change has to happen?
If cities see there millions and million of dollars dry up because of the loss of por sports, would that stop redlining? I think it very well might.

Sports is woven into the fabric of our society. Look at the discussions about the pandemic and sports. Imagine the discussions if it was about racism and sports.

I know this is a pipe dream. But, IMO, kneeling is divisive. It pisses of people who think the flag is being disrespected because they do not want to see what the real message is (Systematic racism?). Drew Brees highlighted that fact right out of the chute. I know this idea would have to have a real goals and ways to implement them. And that coordinated effort may be unobtainable. But what if?

 

[HuckFinn]

If these players truly want to make a statement, Protest the season and dont play. That would be a shot heard around the world. Kneeling just clouds the message, see Drew Brees. People are going to fall into the message again, you are disrespecting the flag and the military.

It is obvious change will take a long time, too long. Or things wont change at all. But if these athletes, whose voices are heard throughout every facet of society, want to speed up change, do not play.

That would be the greatest statement ever made and would make change happen very fast.

This is a horrible idea.

 

[trj]

The NFL seems to be teflon about everything. I thought they came to a resolution. If you are not going to stand for the national anthem you could do whatever in the lockerroom while the anthem is being played. It will be interesting how the NFL navigates through this.

 

[Motigerhawk]

This is a horrible idea.

But we would rather see this

 

[HuckFinn]

I am not the smartest guy in the room. But I have waded through this thread for several days, And I think that with about 90% accuracy, I could identify posters who are overtly racist or at least complicit. I just don’t know which is worse.

 

[Motigerhawk]

Radical change demands radical action.

Kneeling is a message that gets lost or changed. Imagine what would happen if athletes stopped playing?

There are bigger things to tackle than a game.

Shoot throw in actors. Quit making movies.

These people are employees of some of the richest people in the country. Pinch those wallets and I bet you see something happen.

 

[PCHawk]

I am not the smartest guy in the room. But I have waded through this thread for several days, And I think that with about 90% accuracy, I could identify posters who are overtly racist or at least complicit. I just don’t know which is worse.

Just out of curiosity, do you think CP87 is racist?

 

[PCHawk]

Just because you were disadvantaged in many ways, that does not eliminate the fact that you were advantaged by the color of your skin.

There can be a black man who grows up with many advantages across many different dimensions, but he still deals with the disadvantage of his skin color.

White privilege does not negate all you have accomplished, nor does it condemn your character. But it is a fact of life in this country (and many others). Try to take a step back from your own emotional reaction to the term (I tend to have the same reaction), and just listen to what black people are saying about their lives. And whenever you find yourself saying, "It can't be that bad, this guy has to be embellishing to gain sympathy or prove a point," notice it, and then think about how you would interpret the same story if it was being told to you by your best, white friend.

Here is part of my own story: I haven't been on my own facebook page for months, but I spent a little time scrolling through stuff this morning. There is this guy (black) I played football with in college, one of the best dudes I know. We are "invite each other to our weddings" close, but not "have each other in our wedding-parties" close. But he is the kind of guy that is so caring, thoughtful, talented, etc. that I feel a bit inferior at times when I compare myself to him. Again, just a good dude.

So this guys writes out a thoughtful, carefully crafted piece on how this latest incident has affected him more than any of the previous, and how it has really made him reflect on being black in America. And he was talking about all of the things he worries about, from picking his jogging routes to making sure he has a plan in case he is pulled over to how he is perceived when he coaches his mostly white athletes at an Iowa high school.

My first thought when reading this: "Come on, it can't be that bad, this is Iowa for Pete's sake, we're friendly to everyone!" I had to catch myself. Why would I distrust what this guy is saying? Of all the good people I know, he is right up there. But my natural tendency was to disbelieve. Because if there are a lot of crappy aspects to being black, that is an indictment on my country, on my race, and on me...and that doesn't feel good.

I think we need to face the pain that comes with the realization that we have failed in some ways as humans. For most it was not malicious, and human failure does not make any of us unique (rather it bonds us with another 8 billion or so on this planet). But that realization is going to help us to start listening without judging, and to treat others as we want to be treated.

What I've said about white privilege has always been more about financially. All the other things you've mentioned about your friend is things I've never had to deal with so in that way I've for sure had white privilege. Man your posts are always so well thought out and fair from both sides. If people consider you racist for your posts then I'll be more amazed than I am when the Kardashians get called racist.

 

[PCHawk]

I can't help but chuckle a bit that Fry called me out.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I have mixed feelings about kneeling.

While I'm perfectly comfortable with peaceful protests and even a certain degree of civil disobedience, I just think there's something innately special about sports that makes it kind of sacrosanct. Maybe I'm naive or overly "romantic" or sentimental or whatever, but I've always seen sports as the escape from the troubles of the world; an environment where we can all come together and put aside differences and just enjoy the moment.

I'm more than aware of the reality of what is sports - the capitalistic greed, the corruption, the hypocritical disingenuousness, etc., etc., but, in full disclosure, I try my best to live somewhat in denial when it comes to the industry and all its failings. Perhaps it's selfishness, but sports has a way of getting in your blood and associating itself with so many positive memories of family, friends, teammates, and emotional experiences. It just doesn't seem like the right time and place.

Just my take. It probably sounds sappy, but I prefer to see people take a break from the realities that plague us when they step on the court or field. If there is one thing that COVID and political unrest has taught me, it's that this country needs a way to escape, and, for many of us, it's sports.

 

[Robowe]

Radical change demands radical action.

Kneeling is a message that gets lost or changed. Imagine what would happen if athletes stopped playing?

There are bigger things to tackle than a game.

Shoot throw in actors. Quit making movies.

These people are employees of some of the richest people in the country. Pinch those wallets and I bet you see something happen.

Well, the past 3 months, there have been no sports and no movies being made, yet the police brutality continues. I believe the kneeling worked (even though Kaepernick was basically shut out of the league - see Mike Glennon). 3 years later, and the kneeling is still a hot button issue (see responses to Drew Brees today by his receivers and LeBron James). It had a lasting affect and would be even more powerful if it made a comeback.

However, I could see the linking of arms by the entire team could help (some teams did that previously like the Rodgers post) but it was a one time gesture last time. This time, we need actually conversation and changes that occur. Some of the posts about the 8 policy changes that could help limit the violence by police is another place to start the discussion.

 

[HuckFinn]

But we would rather see this

No. Of course not. But you need to review the cause and effect definitions.

 

[Robowe]

Curious ... has anyone else had to have this 'talk' with their kid when they went off to college (see entire thread). This is an actual former NFL player discussing this about his son as he headed off to Ohio State.

 

[LGEND24]

Or we could just not play the anthem; it’s not played before 99% of other people start working.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Yeah, you told me not to hold back. I’m not. You are a racist. It would be best that you not be able to comment anywhere, but I don’t make the rules. You did upset me, cause all you do is attack me, so F your self pussy, let’s go macho man. Biggest racist on HN, the reason people don’t come here cause you attack everyone. Loser

I've got over 9,000 post on this thread and Fry has never attacked me.

Disagreed? yes.

Called me Cliff Klaven, or supported another poster who did? Yup, and getting called Cliff Klaven is one of my hot buttons.

Made shit of my meager "catch of the day" avatar? Check (And I just laughed it off and put something a hell of a lot more attractive for eighteen months than a kettle of fish; my daughter!)

Any opinion at any time, including mine, is fair game to get blasted. And many of mine have. But I like to think I've proven I can take it as well as I dish it out.

If not I'll be happy to discuss when and where I did not.

 

[trj]

Just out of curiosity, do you think CP87 is racist?

Honest discussion.

Those two words have been tossed around quite a bit in this thread and just in general. When I hear those two words I think of people like CP87, someone just willing to listen. Not to sway, not to justify, not to rationalize, but to listen.

 

[Fryowa]

I have mixed feelings about kneeling.

While I'm perfectly comfortable with peaceful protests and even a certain degree of civil disobedience, I just think there's something innately special about sports that makes it kind of sacrosanct.

I think that’s kind of the point, though. It’s one sure fire way to get everyone’s attention. One of MLK’s quotes that’s being referenced a lot these days is, “Riots are the language of the unheard.” I’m not going to get in a debate about whether rioting is justified or not, but I think you can get the point regardless. That’s a statement that says—extreme measures might sometimes be the only way to be heard after civil disobedience hasn’t worked.

Kneeling at a sporting event is a 100% guaranteed way to be seen and make people know what you think. Im not going to lie, I didn’t like the idea of kneeling before because I felt that it disrespected the country I dearly love. But fortunately or unfortunately, this whole thing has made me reconsider my views and I realize that it’s not about that and no one k relying ever intended it that way. I was (and still am to a large degree) ignorant to what black people face every day. I certainly don’t know what it feels like to drive or walk around nervous all the time about getting stopped or pulled over. I’ve always known there were big problems, but I personally brushed it off because living and working where I do I have almost zero interaction with anyone who’s not white. And that’s my own failure/laziness for not thinking about it until now.

 

[HuckFinn]

Just out of curiosity, do you think CP87 is racist?

I would not call anyone out on a thread like this without substantial clarity about their views. I have, in the past, been willing to call posters out when I think their posts have been indefensible. I would do so again, but not likely on this long and complex thread. I only meant my comment to be a general perception.

 

[Fryowa]

I've got over 9,000 post on this thread and Fry has never attacked me.

Disagreed? yes.

Made shit of my meager "catch of the day" avatar? Check (And I just laughed it off and put something a hell of a lot more attractive for eighteen months than a kettle of fish; my daughter!)

Any opinion at any time, including mine, is fair game to get blasted. And many of mine have. But I like to think I've proven I can take it as well as I dish it out.

If not I'll be happy to discuss when and where I did not.

I’m not mad and I don’t feel any animosity. @InGoodCo was (or is) mad and let it rip. Hot button topic for both of us and shit happens. I’ve never said I haven’t started shit before, so there’s no way I’ll hold it against someone else.

If he stays mad or really thinks I hate black people, or whatever, I can’t change it. He seems like a dude you could trust to tell a secret or watch your kids or be alone with your wife, after that it’s just nitpicking. He and I don’t agree on the type of person I am and that’s ok. I certainly don’t agree with everyone I come across day to day but by and large they’re mostly good people.