Don't Expect Any Protests During National Anthem from Hawkeyes

Hawk1960 said:
You could argue it, but you would get laughed out of court. If an NFL owner wanted to fire one of the kneelers he could simply state it was his decision ... employee broke the NFL bylaws and potentially other contractual obligations ... not any influence from POTUS.
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NFL players sign contracts, they aren't at-will employees like most of us normal people. There is no bylaw saying you have to stand for the national anthem. Even if there was the penalty would be a fine, not a cause for termination.

Sure, an owner can cut any player at any time for any reason, but they would still owe that player the remainder of the guaranteed money on their contract regardless. Then the owner would have to take a dead money hit on the salary cap for that contract for future years. For some players that wouldn't be much money, for others it would be millions...depends on the contract

Also keep in mind that NFL players are part of a union. If an owner were to fire a player for kneeling, the union would absolutely, 100% file a grievance and go to an arbitrator. The losing side would then more than likely file an appeal with the federal court (like Ezekiel Elliot is doing right now, and Tom Brady did for deflategate).

Guess what I'm saying is it would be a LOT of trouble (legal and monetary) for an NFL owner to fire a player for kneeling during the national anthem. Not to mention the publicity (good and bad) and the rift it would cause within the team and the NFL. Frankly, it wouldn't happen.
 
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BlindDogScooter said:
Rob... This isn't a political argument... just setting the record straight.

The players... and none of us... have a constitutionally protected First Amendment right to do what they're doing. The First Amendment protects us from government retribution for speech they disagree with. There is no such protection in the private sector. These players could be fired and the courts would uphold it.
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Do many of you think the owners are going to fire their best players or all their players. The owners are kneeling with them. Plus the players are in a union so there will be grievances. No matter what you think about unions they are there to protect workers. Just like a corporation can bring together money and materials to make their product and sell it at their selected price the union can bring together workers to "sell" their labor at the selected price. Unfortunately too many people in this country dont get this.
 
BlindDogScooter said:
Apparently some do need a lecture on what the Constitution is all about because this isn't it. The actions of these players are not protected by the Constitution. This is not a government issue.
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I don't agree and obviously neither do the owners off many of the NFL teams.
 
vork22 said:
You aren't protected by the first amendment in your workplace. If these players really wanted to make a difference in our country or the communities where they think these injustices are taking place they have the means to do so but they do absolutely nothing. This goes for politicians on both sides as well. Taking a knee and disrespecting those who died to allow you the ability to make millions of dollars playing a game is misguided. Before the anthem or after the game if they want to make a show of unity have at it.
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I didn't say they were protected in their workplace. If they want to stand up for what they believe then the Constitutions allows them to do that. If they decide the risk of getting fired is worth it then they get fired. And I made it clear that IMO you don't have to be in the right to express your disagreement on something. I personally would not do what they are doing but if some A-hole wants to fire them for it I guess he has that right.
 
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mopkins said:
NFL players sign contracts, they aren't at-will employees like most of us normal people. There is no bylaw saying you have to stand for the national anthem. Even if there was the penalty would be a fine, not a cause for termination.

Sure, an owner can cut any player at any time for any reason, but they would still owe that player the remainder of the guaranteed money on their contract regardless. Then the owner would have to take a dead money hit on the salary cap for that contract for future years. For some players that wouldn't be much money, for others it would be millions...depends on the contract

Also keep in mind that NFL players are part of a union. If an owner were to fire a player for kneeling, the union would absolutely, 100% file a grievance and go to an arbitrator. The losing side would then more than likely file an appeal with the federal court (like Ezekiel Elliot is doing right now, and Tom Brady did for deflategate).

Guess what I'm saying is it would be a LOT of trouble (legal and monetary) for an NFL owner to fire a player for kneeling during the national anthem. Not to mention the publicity (good and bad) and the rift it would cause within the team and the NFL. Frankly, it wouldn't happen.
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Actually there is a rule they have to stand for the national anthem ... it's in the NFL Game Operations Manual and very specific ...

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if the owner were to fire the employee any compensation would be determined by what is in his contract. Sure it would cost the owner money, but it's also going to cost money if they lose 50% of their fan base when the next TV contract comes along. In fact, it could be before that if ad revenue, ticket sales, merchandise drops.

NFL TV ratings were down 8% in 2016 and are down another 11% this year so far and are likely to get worse.
 
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dwghawk said:
I didn't say they were protected in their workplace. If they want to stand up for what they believe then the Constitutions allows them to do that. If they decide the risk of getting fired is worth it then they get fired. And I made it clear that IMO you don't have to be in the right to express your disagreement on something. I personally would not do what they are doing but if some A-hole wants to fire them for it I guess he has that right.
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Why would they be Aholes? Any business in America would fire people that hurt the brand and offend 70% of their base. Patriot and a good businessman maybe? And Kaepernick basically was fired, he's better than several QBs that started this year and guess what nobody cares. The NFL would be more popular if they required them to stand.
 
Hawk1960 said:
Actually there is a rule they have to stand for the national anthem ... it's in the NFL Game Operations Manual and very specific ...

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if the owner were to fire the employee any compensation would be determined by what is in his contract. Sure it would cost the owner money, but it's also going to cost money if they lose 50% of their fan base when the next TV contract comes along. In fact, it could be before that if ad revenue, ticket sales, merchandise drops.

NFL TV ratings were down 8% in 2016 and are down another 11% this year so far and are likely to get worse.
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FYI - that is not true. There is no such rule in the rulebook. That is 100% fake news that is spreading on social media. There might be a guideline in an operating manual that states something like that, but it is not a rule
 
As a eight year Marine Corps combat vet that has lived and survived war I will only say this. When I took my oath to this country, I at that time became a defender to every single American, white, black,tan and yellow, male, female, gay straight, atheist and god fearing. I did not chose to defend one side and not acknowledge another. For everyone who agrees with me there is someone who doesn't. For those that feel oppressed under our flag it is the same one that has given them that freedom . But....But....for three hours on a Saturday in Kinnick stadium I am surrounded by sixty thousand people that for that period of time we are one! Gay or straight, rich or poor, white or black we are one and have something in common and its the greatest feeling of belonging besides the time with my Marine brothers and sisters in arms and lets me for a short time forget all the problems and issues we as a society have. I can only hope one day whether I will still be alive to see it or not that as a country we can all be like that sixty thousand plus. Then I will be able to rest in piece that the price paid by all of the wounded and dead that served this country in all of its wars will been worth the price.
 
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I put her (Harding) right up there with Pitino, on my scale of douchery.
 
Hawk1960 said:
You could argue it, but you would get laughed out of court. If an NFL owner wanted to fire one of the kneelers he could simply state it was his decision ... employee broke the NFL bylaws and potentially other contractual obligations ... not any influence from POTUS.
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Let's bring the "Scabs" back. That would be interesting!!
 
Hawk1960 said:
Actually there is a rule they have to stand for the national anthem ... it's in the NFL Game Operations Manual and very specific ...

The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.

During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if the owner were to fire the employee any compensation would be determined by what is in his contract. Sure it would cost the owner money, but it's also going to cost money if they lose 50% of their fan base when the next TV contract comes along. In fact, it could be before that if ad revenue, ticket sales, merchandise drops.

NFL TV ratings were down 8% in 2016 and are down another 11% this year so far and are likely to get worse.
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To me the language is not concrete and a little tricky and a bit ambiguous. I think the wording is open to interpretation.

It's stated "....players on the field and bench area should stand at attention....".

Should is a bit ambiguous and to me doesn't state one has to stand. Otherwise, It would have been worded that players on the field and bench area must stand at attention.
 
This thread has been a good discussion and civil. I have Appreciated it.
 
Ben Rumson said:
As a eight year Marine Corps combat vet that has lived and survived war I will only say this. When I took my oath to this country, I at that time became a defender to every single American, white, black,tan and yellow, male, female, gay straight, atheist and god fearing. I did not chose to defend one side and not acknowledge another. For everyone who agrees with me there is someone who doesn't. For those that feel oppressed under our flag it is the same one that has given them that freedom . But....But....for three hours on a Saturday in Kinnick stadium I am surrounded by sixty thousand people that for that period of time we are one! Gay or straight, rich or poor, white or black we are one and have something in common and its the greatest feeling of belonging besides the time with my Marine brothers and sisters in arms and lets me for a short time forget all the problems and issues we as a society have. I can only hope one day whether I will still be alive to see it or not that as a country we can all be like that sixty thousand plus. Then I will be able to rest in piece that the price paid by all of the wounded and dead that served this country in all of its wars will been worth the price.
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OMG, well stated!! I'm afraid people did not read your paragraph. If not, they should.

Thank you for your service, Sir.
 
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