Iahwk06
Well-Known Member
Me too
Do you want Fran fired?
- Thread starter Hawk5656
- Start date
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
That's a different argument, though. One of the arguments I see in favor of NOT firing is, "But, we'll lose Connor and Patrick!" But since we don't have them now (excepting Connor's brief stint), it doesn't really matter. The question then becomes, can a new coach recruit well enough and quick enough to replace them and/or fill the roster gaps/needs.
I'm still not at "Yes" to firing. I'm also not in favor of going beyond next season if we don't "compete".
Is there a way I can go back and edit it now?
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I was trying to be nice.
QuadCityHawkeye
Well-Known Member
Fran has done a lot of good for Iowa basketball overall. The program was cracking under Alford and it completely crumbled under Lickliter. It's been frustrating at times with Fran, but I also remember being frustrated with Tom Davis as well. We all know how that ended when the AD listened to the fans and didn't retain him as coach.
Fran gets another year to turn this around. He's got some great recruits coning and I think he can get it right. This year sucks no doubt but I still think he's a good coach.
Fran gets another year to turn this around. He's got some great recruits coning and I think he can get it right. This year sucks no doubt but I still think he's a good coach.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Unfortunately not. Just create the same poll a month from now, we all have shit for memory.
I doubt there are any fan bases that don't find faults in their coach when they lose. Losing sucks, and it's pretty easy to find reasons why it happens. 5 years ago, Fran sucked because no one could shoot the 3. After that, he sucked because he doesn't land transfers. Now he sucks because he doesn't have a point guard. One thing that has stayed consistent is he sucks for defense. But some years, that was just ignorant fans not understanding the difference between total points given up, and adjusted defense.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
As I have said before, I don't think he is going to get it done and this is the beginning stages of his final act. But, I concede that he has done enough to warrant at least another 2 years to prove I'm wrong. However, I would understand if he was let go after next year if it looks like this year all over again. So, I voted no this time around. I hope I'm wrong and he gets it fixed.
My gut feeling is Fran and his family want to get out of Iowa. As a hunch, I think how his best team's to date collapsed in the B10 and were early exists in the NCAAs, that took the wind out of his sails. He resurrected Iowa from the grave, but could not do much beyond that.
Fran does a lot of things with Xs and Os, but not particularly well. Landing and retaining recruits like Marble, White, and Jared U, Woody, etc were able to cover up some of this. But, now he has to rebuild this thing again and I don't know if the desire is there. And, I don't think his boys and Joe are going to be enough to overcome his deficiently coached schemes.
Iowa's next coach, needs to be someone who can really coach and can recruit a balanced roster. I think the macro of the system we run is fine (uptempo, pressing, combination and switching defenses). It is the micro that is incredibly poor right now with poor recruiting.
My gut feeling is Fran and his family want to get out of Iowa. As a hunch, I think how his best team's to date collapsed in the B10 and were early exists in the NCAAs, that took the wind out of his sails. He resurrected Iowa from the grave, but could not do much beyond that.
Fran does a lot of things with Xs and Os, but not particularly well. Landing and retaining recruits like Marble, White, and Jared U, Woody, etc were able to cover up some of this. But, now he has to rebuild this thing again and I don't know if the desire is there. And, I don't think his boys and Joe are going to be enough to overcome his deficiently coached schemes.
Iowa's next coach, needs to be someone who can really coach and can recruit a balanced roster. I think the macro of the system we run is fine (uptempo, pressing, combination and switching defenses). It is the micro that is incredibly poor right now with poor recruiting.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Interesting poll it turned out to be.
Would be interesting to know for the people who said not to fire Fran.
1. If Fran was fired where they would be? Would they say that’s it disgraceful and Fran deserved a longer leash, or would they okay let’s see who we can get next.
2. Are they in the camp, fire Fran next year if we don’t make the dance?
Overall it’s interesting because almost everyone knows nothing will happen this year. But mostly everyone thinks our AD is an idiot so that doesn’t mean that’s exactly the right decision either.
Would be interesting to know for the people who said not to fire Fran.
1. If Fran was fired where they would be? Would they say that’s it disgraceful and Fran deserved a longer leash, or would they okay let’s see who we can get next.
2. Are they in the camp, fire Fran next year if we don’t make the dance?
Overall it’s interesting because almost everyone knows nothing will happen this year. But mostly everyone thinks our AD is an idiot so that doesn’t mean that’s exactly the right decision either.
mopkins
King Kong
I voted no for reasons I've stated in many other threads. It makes zero sense to fire Fran this year.
1. If Fran was fired where they would be? Would they say that’s it disgraceful and Fran deserved a longer leash, or would they okay let’s see who we can get next.
He won't get fired after this year so its a pointless hypothetical. That being said, no matter what happens I'd still be a fan of Iowa basketball.
2. Are they in the camp, fire Fran next year if we don’t make the dance?
I think Fran gets, and deserves, 2 more years. However, if next season is the mess this season is, I wouldn't have a problem moving on.
I'm curious why you think a coach deserves two more years if he doesn't make the Tournament next year. I mean if you don't make the Tournament three straight years you should lose your job especially when one of them you were probably the worst team in the conference.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
1. I would not cry about it if he was fired after the season. From a mathematic point of view, I don't think it would be fair to Fran. From an eyeball and emotional test, I think that would be more to stomach for his removal. Again, I think he will not be here more than 2 years longer anyway.
2. No, but again I would not cry about it if it happened.
hawkdrummer1
Well-Known Member
Tough to let him go now, as it would get the "after one bad season?!" tag. But he needs to be on notice that if we're 10th or worse next year he done. If he can turn around the ****show he has on the court now, he deserves to stay. But I wouldn't bet on that happening.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is interesting my position as someone who thinks Fran is going to fail anyway, but is still willing to give him 2 more years. Here is the reason. If I was the AD, he has met my litmus test, for the most part, of getting Iowa to the NCAA tournament at least 2 out of every 4 years (up to this point). Technically speaking, I don't believe he did this though in his first 4 years. I don't count an NCAA first four as an official invite unless that said team wins that game. Some disagree with that, but that is my opinion on it. However, I'm willing to give him a pass on the first 4 years on my NCAA standard considering:
A. How the bad program was after the Alford and Lick years.
B. He made improvement every year in his first 4 years.
In his second 4 years (including this year and I am assuming no NCAA tournament appearance this year ), he will have 2 NCAA tournament teams. So, he met my basic expectations.
So all considering, I can't fire him based on merit. I think he does deserve a chance to right the ship.
Again, I don't think it is going to happen though. I think he will fail. But, as his boss, I would want to give him that chance. I do think there is a slight chance he could turn it around. But, I don't think it is very realistic considering he has to coach fundamentals much better, recruit much better, and be willing to do it.
But, not as his boss, if Barta were to let go of him before these 2 years are up, I don't think there should be pitchforks outside of Gary's office either. This is because, although what Fran has done has been nice, it has hardly been memorable. Iowa is not Northwestern. I think Iowa is a program that should and can be in the NCAA tournament at least 50% of the time in a decade.
Now what Bowlsby did to Mr. Davis, I think that was an outrage. In my opinion, Iowa was a competitive NCAA tournament team most years under Mr. Davis. Mr. Davis was Iowa's last real Big Ten coach in my opinion. Mr. Davis likely should have retired from Iowa. I believe, Iowa would still be consistently competitive to this day if that was the case.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
The reason I say make the move now is for the 2019 & 2020 recruiting classes, which will be a huge
If I’m hearing you right and you’re saying two years after this season, that seems a bit crazy to me.
Playing a hypothetical, let’s say next year we show improvement but don’t make the dance. So three years in a row without making the dance and we go an additional year with Fran. So the JBo class is now seniors, let’s say we make the dance that year but don’t make much noise. Then what? Do we feel Fran is really the answer because we just made an NCAA tournament? Seems like a slippery slope and ultimately just prolonging the inevitable.
Who knows maybe I’m wrong and Fran will get this program to be a consistent NCAA team and higher.
theboat
Well-Known Member
i posted a new poll to let people answer more in the gray areas of this question.
mopkins
King Kong
I just think Fran gets 2 more years based on: his contract has 2 more years on it, his huge sophomore class will be seniors, Wieskamp is coming in next year, Patrick is coming in 2 years. If 2 years from now he can't win then he deserves to be fired. Then the next coach can come in with 5+ open scholarships and build his team from scratch with a core of Nunge/Garza/Wieskamp.
It makes way too much sense for a lot of reasons
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
That doesn’t make sense to me.
He should be able to win with a team full of seniors and juniors. You would basically be saying it’s okay that we missed the tournament 3 years in a row, because Fran led a group of seniors and juniors to the tournament.
I think a lot has to do with people's opinions of the freshmen class, the recruits coming in, and the chances of getting good recruits in the future. If you think Garza, Nunge, Wieskamp, Connor, and Patrick are going to be a good team, you may lean towards keeping him. After all, good players can make bad coaches look good. But if you think that group of players isn't very good, you think it's a no brainer to fire him.
mopkins
King Kong
Well how many teams not named Kentucky consistently make the NCAA tournament with zero seniors and 1 junior?
