Compare the impact of Woodbury/Gesell to Horner/Brunner as freshmen.

herby's a good Hawk fan and he gets a bum rap. I've known him on the scout board for a long, long time and though he and I haven't always seen eye to eye, I like the guy. You just have to look beyond how extreme he is...not to say that a little wacky isn't good ever so often.

But the bottom line is that he's a good guy who doesn't punk people unless they go after him. Which is often, unfortunately. Lay off.
 
...and perhaps my favorite thing about herby is that my sense is that he doesn't need or want people sticking up for him. Just adding my voice to the chorus.
 
Comparing production of these two vs Horner and Bru is an apples oranges comparison. Mike and Adam will be pushed for minutes from day 1 by capable freshmen and in Adams case several upperclassman. Mike and Anthony will be looked to day 1 to take the point and allow Devin to slide to the wing.

That said I see Gessell playing a lot and being key next year, while Adams contributions will fall more along the lines of dirty work and taking pressure off upperclassman down low.
 
wundergrape said:
If you're using 'tenor' as a not-very-funny euphemism for civility, well, I think that's exactly what we need.
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Civility is a two way street. From what I have been reading, Herby has been very abrasive towards others, and he gets mad when people are abrasive to him. He refuses any criticism on his opinions, even while refuseing to accept the opinions of others, and he never admits he is wrong. Then, he uses his disability to remove any culpability from his behavior. And lastly, he never learns from him previous mistakes and keeps coming back for more.
 
SpiderRico said:
I really have no idea what this is post is trying to say, but let me reiterate here.....

1. If Mike Gesell averages 5 assists per game, which would give him about 170 assists for the season, then he will have one of the Top 10 assist seasons in Hawkeye history. No way a freshman comes in and puts up a Top 10 all time season. By the way, Bryce Cartwright's best season (last year) he averaged 5.9 assists per game. However, he was a junior, not a freshman and had significant starting experience already as a transfer. With the exception of Andre Wooldridge, who quite frankly is the best point guard in the last 30 years at Iowa, no Iowa player has had a Top 10 all time assist season until at least their junior year.
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Um, okay dude...no way a freshman can come in and average 5 apg at Iowa...times are changing. I am not going to say that Gesell will get 5 apg, however, there is no reason not to think he can't.

Iowa wants to go uptempo and in watching Gesell, he is ready to play in the BIG with his intelligence for one. That will eliminate the ignorant to's that has plagued Iowa PG play in the last few seasons. Secondly, Gesell can shoot, so being able to create with a shot fake, the way he is capable of shooting, will open things up. Lastly, it will not shock me to see him play 30+ mpg. The reason being, Iowa is a little short on guard depth and I would not be surprised to see he and Clemmons in the game together for some streches.

That is just Gesell, here is the thing...Iowa hasn't returned this many proven players in some time due to defections and the few who have graduated. I think there are a lot of people capable that Mike can get the ball too and that will help as well. Look for White to be the main beneficiary of Gesell and then any player that is willing to post up, with Clemmons as well, Iowa hasn't had a PG that is capable of passing to a post player with good position since Horner.

Not going to jump out there and say 5 apg is going to happen, but it may be a small number when all is said and done. That is the great thing about these freshman that say Gatens never had, the ability to grow as freshman. There will be certain pressures for all of them, but in specific areas and that will help them not force things and try and be who they aren't.
 
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sportstalent said:
SpiderRico said:
I really have no idea what this is post is trying to say, but let me reiterate here..... 1. If Mike Gesell averages 5 assists per game, which would give him about 170 assists for the season, then he will have one of the Top 10 assist seasons in Hawkeye history. No way a freshman comes in and puts up a Top 10 all time season. By the way, Bryce Cartwright's best season (last year) he averaged 5.9 assists per game. However, he was a junior, not a freshman and had significant starting experience already as a transfer. With the exception of Andre Wooldridge, who quite frankly is the best point guard in the last 30 years at Iowa, no Iowa player has had a Top 10 all time assist season until at least their junior year.
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Um, okay dude...no way a freshman can come in and average 5 apg at Iowa...times are changing. I am not going to say that Gesell will get 5 apg, however, there is no reason not to think he can't. Iowa wants to go uptempo and in watching Gesell, he is ready to play in the BIG with his intelligence for one. That will eliminate the ignorant to's that has plagued Iowa PG play in the last few seasons. Secondly, Gesell can shoot, so being able to create with a shot fake the way he will be capable will open things up. Lastly, it will not shock me to see him play 30 mpg. The reason being, Iowa is a little short on guard depth and I would not be surprised to see he and Clemmons in the game together for some streches. That is just Gesell, here is the thing...Iowa hasn't returned this many proven players in some time due to defections and the few who have graduated. I think there are a lot of people capable that Mike can get the ball too and that will help as well. Look for White to be the main beneficiary of Gesell and then any player that is willing to post up, with Clemmons as well, Iowa hasn't had a PG that is capable of passing to a post player with good position since Horner. Not going to jump out there and say 5 apg is going to happen, but it may be a small number when all is said and done. That is the great thing about these freshman that say Gatens never had, the ability to grow as freshman. There will be certain pressures for all of them, but in specific areas and that will help them not force things and try and be who they aren't.
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Damm ST, might as well say we are baaaacccckkkkkkkkkk! Good post
 
imported_Tmoney12 said:
Damm ST, might as well say we are baaaacccckkkkkkkkkk! Good post
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If Iowa isn't back after last season with the roster they had that many people predicted a not so good record, let alone a winning record after some early losses, I don't know what they are.

Also, it is irritating for people to continue to dismiss what Iowa has returning next season. Then Iowa brings two four star kids, 2 pure athletes that appear to be solid basketball players and a post player that plays with the effort of some kid that played at UNC a couple years ago.
The facts are this:
1. Fran built a good foundation his first year.
2. With a shortened roster and injuries it derailed Iowa's NCAA tourney chances when you look at how they played in the BIG season.
3. Iowa has now added some talent to come off the bench along with some very quality players coming back.
4. Fran can coach.

It is a rebirth of sorts for Iowa basketball and fans are not placing unreal expectations on this freshman group. All the freshman have to do is come in and play, but not press themselves into trying to be stars from day one, play patient and great things will happen. Iowa's team is more of team than they have been for many, many years.
 
After watching the all star game, I came away a lot more impressed than most. Down the stretch he showed some immediate impact ability. Footwork, boxing out, rebounding, scoring. Down the stretch he was quietly making plays. I think he starts right away. Gessell is awesome. Looking forward to seeing the others. Fran pretty much just brought in a brand new team. Looking forward to seeing this team run and Gessell looks like he can run and run and run.
 
If I remember correctly, Horner and Brunners first season, we were depleted by injuries and other issues, and only had 7 scholarship players. We did very well that year despite the depleted roster.....

Loved Horner and Brunner, especially when they had Haluska their last two years.....

I don't think it is a stretch to believe that Gesell will have more than 5 assists a game from the start, and he will score also, perhaps 8/10 points a game. Woodbury is much better than he looks, he appears somewhat awkward, but so did Aaron White. Adam's presence was felt in the all star game yesterday. He was all over the floor, doing the little things that win games but not the stat count. He did have a double double, the only one on either team. that speaks for itself.....

He, again like Aaron, is deceptively quick and smart, he rebounds, deflects shots, blocks shots and goes after loose balls. He and Gesell looked very good in the half court trap early in the game yesterday. Announcers called it the Iowa Connection that caused the turnover. One announcer, perhaps Simon, mentioned that Mike Gesell was Marshallesque in his play.

I thing people will be surprised how good Geselll and Woodbury are going to be, especially when conference play begins, with the experience of the preconference games. Gesell will make an immediate impact with his floor play. Can't wait to see him running the team with Marble, White and Basabe being the benefactors of his lob passes around the basket.....
 
There isn't a game on the schedule that we can't win next year. We have not only experience we have talent. Basabe, Marble and White will emerge as true leaders and I think Basabe will grow into what we were looking for last year. Woody will be Woody, Gesell will be Gesell and there are no limits. Don't try to say we won't or can't, we Will. Michigan will be awesome and the B1G will be the best conference in the country again, but Fran can coach and he will get us off the bubble early and into a mid-seed in the big show. Sit back, put your seatbelt on and lets fly!
 
jacknicholson said:
If I remember correctly, Horner and Brunners first season, we were depleted by injuries and other issues, and only had 7 scholarship players. We did very well that year despite the depleted roster.....
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JonDMiller said:
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Thanks, Jon, don't know why I retain that information that we were down to 7 scholarship players that year, but the stat sticks in my head.....

Not certain that Chris Warren and Greg Dollmeyer were on scholarship, and we held a scholarship for Pierre Pierce who was ineligible that year. Thought there were injuries, but can't remember who.....

Believe we lost Marcus Sommerville that year and a player from California who quit the team around the PTL season, name might have been Reed, not Carlton.....

At any rate, I am really looking forward to next season, more than ever.....

:)
 
RADMAN said:
There isn't a game on the schedule that we can't win next year. We have not only experience we have talent. Basabe, Marble and White will emerge as true leaders and I think Basabe will grow into what we were looking for last year. Woody will be Woody, Gesell will be Gesell and there are no limits. Don't try to say we won't or can't, we Will. Michigan will be awesome and the B1G will be the best conference in the country again, but Fran can coach and he will get us off the bubble early and into a mid-seed in the big show. Sit back, put your seatbelt on and lets fly!
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:)
 
OatesStache said:
Look at last year's top 100 recruits, and see how effective the big men were their freshman year. Maybe 1 in 4 was a big contributor on their team. People need to stop thinking guys that just because Anthony Davis and Cody Zeller were great as freshmen, then any big man can be effective. The odds are against it. It is ok to allow the possibility, but be realistic.
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First you have to consider that most top players go to schools where they are behind established players.

Second different players are ranked high for different reasons. Allot of the rankings for big men are based on potential, if a guy is big and athletic like Payne or Leonard but still raw they will be rated high on potential.

Woodbury is not raw. He has a great skill set and feel but average at best athleticism. His ranking is based more on performance than potential.
 
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