Compare the impact of Woodbury/Gesell to Horner/Brunner as freshmen.

[RocknRollface]

Look at last year's top 100 recruits, and see how effective the big men were their freshman year. Maybe 1 in 4 was a big contributor on their team. People need to stop thinking guys that just because Anthony Davis and Cody Zeller were great as freshmen, then any big man can be effective. The odds are against it. It is ok to allow the possibility, but be realistic.

Um, okay dude...no way a freshman can come in and average 5 apg at Iowa...times are changing. I am not going to say that Gesell will get 5 apg, however, there is no reason not to think he can't.

Iowa wants to go uptempo and in watching Gesell, he is ready to play in the BIG with his intelligence for one. That will eliminate the ignorant to's that has plagued Iowa PG play in the last few seasons. Secondly, Gesell can shoot, so being able to create with a shot fake, the way he is capable of shooting, will open things up. Lastly, it will not shock me to see him play 30+ mpg. The reason being, Iowa is a little short on guard depth and I would not be surprised to see he and Clemmons in the game together for some streches.

That is just Gesell, here is the thing...Iowa hasn't returned this many proven players in some time due to defections and the few who have graduated. I think there are a lot of people capable that Mike can get the ball too and that will help as well. Look for White to be the main beneficiary of Gesell and then any player that is willing to post up, with Clemmons as well, Iowa hasn't had a PG that is capable of passing to a post player with good position since Horner.

Not going to jump out there and say 5 apg is going to happen, but it may be a small number when all is said and done. That is the great thing about these freshman that say Gatens never had, the ability to grow as freshman. There will be certain pressures for all of them, but in specific areas and that will help them not force things and try and be who they aren't.

Agreed, Iowa is going to score allot more points than we have under previous coaches. More chances for assists. He will probably get at least one easy assist on run outs from White every game.

Five is probably a bit much though considering he is going to have down games as well.

 

[wundergrape]

doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

definition for insanity.

I hate when people say this. The above statement is in no way, shape or form a definition of insanity. It's just a saying someone made up so they could have something pithy to say during an argument.

 

[CAARHawk]

There is a lot of silly in this thread.

1) Someone claimed that Gessel and Woody are better than White.
2) People have White coming off the bench on this team.
3) People question why Woody can't get as many boards as Basabe in his freshman year.

1. The kid was a top 15 freshman player with a year of development under his belt. You really think you can make that claim unequivocally?
2. This guy is the best all around player on the team. You want him on the bench?
3. Um, maybe because Basabe played about a foot and a half higher than Woody will as a frosh.

 

[IATrainMaster101]

There is a lot of silly in this thread. 1) Someone claimed that Gessel and Woody are better than White. 2) People have White coming off the bench on this team.3) People question why Woody can't get as many boards as Basabe in his freshman year. 1. The kid was a top 15 freshman player with a year of development under his belt. You really think you can make that claim unequivocally?2. This guy is the best all around player on the team. You want him on the bench?3. Um, maybe because Basabe played about a foot and a half higher than Woody will as a frosh.

4. In 2010, there wasn't enough Basabe to take up all of the minutes available at the 4 and 5. In 2012 every minute of playing time will be fiercely battled for.

 

[HawkeyeFan57]

If you compare the talent around Brunner and Horner to next years talent, I think it is very possible that Gesell has 5 assists per game. Reiner and Sondy were power guys vs. slasher/run the court kind of players. Worley was a combo power/slasher. Boyd was a steady player, but not a 90 mph kind of guy. Leslie would have fit on nest years team well.

Now look at next years team. Basabe and White run like gazelles. Olaseni and Woodbury are above average of running the court. Marble will be awesome at the full court. Eric May, if healthy can fly up and down the court. McCabe is more like Brunner. Add in the 3 unproven freshmen in Clemmons, Ingram, and Meyer, who all appear to be able to run up and down the court.

So if Gesell is as good as advertised, he should be able to get 5 assists per game with all of the talent we have to run up and down the court...especially if we can press to create turnovers. We should be averaging in the 75-85 points per game next year if everyone stays healthy and improves from where they are at today. This fast paced game may keep Woodbury's numbers lower, but increase Gesell's. Woodbury, hopefully will be our defensive specialist to get the fast break going.

 

[SpiderRico]

If you compare the talent around Brunner and Horner to next years talent, I think it is very possible that Gesell has 5 assists per game. Reiner and Sondy were power guys vs. slasher/run the court kind of players. Worley was a combo power/slasher. Boyd was a steady player, but not a 90 mph kind of guy. Leslie would have fit on nest years team well.

Now look at next years team. Basabe and White run like gazelles. Olaseni and Woodbury are above average of running the court. Marble will be awesome at the full court. Eric May, if healthy can fly up and down the court. McCabe is more like Brunner. Add in the 3 unproven freshmen in Clemmons, Ingram, and Meyer, who all appear to be able to run up and down the court.

So if Gesell is as good as advertised, he should be able to get 5 assists per game with all of the talent we have to run up and down the court...especially if we can press to create turnovers. We should be averaging in the 75-85 points per game next year if everyone stays healthy and improves from where they are at today. This fast paced game may keep Woodbury's numbers lower, but increase Gesell's. Woodbury, hopefully will be our defensive specialist to get the fast break going.

The 1989 team averaged 98 points per game and BJ avg'd just under 5 assists per game. Averaging 5-6 assists per game for an entire season is not easy to do. This year, for example, 5 assists per game would put him in the Top 50 for assists in the entire country. I think that's a lot to expect out of a freshman.

 

[SpiderRico]

If you compare the talent around Brunner and Horner to next years talent, I think it is very possible that Gesell has 5 assists per game. Reiner and Sondy were power guys vs. slasher/run the court kind of players. Worley was a combo power/slasher. Boyd was a steady player, but not a 90 mph kind of guy. Leslie would have fit on nest years team well.

Now look at next years team. Basabe and White run like gazelles. Olaseni and Woodbury are above average of running the court. Marble will be awesome at the full court. Eric May, if healthy can fly up and down the court. McCabe is more like Brunner. Add in the 3 unproven freshmen in Clemmons, Ingram, and Meyer, who all appear to be able to run up and down the court.

So if Gesell is as good as advertised, he should be able to get 5 assists per game with all of the talent we have to run up and down the court...especially if we can press to create turnovers. We should be averaging in the 75-85 points per game next year if everyone stays healthy and improves from where they are at today. This fast paced game may keep Woodbury's numbers lower, but increase Gesell's. Woodbury, hopefully will be our defensive specialist to get the fast break going.

 

[OatesStache]

I hate when people say this. The above statement is in no way, shape or form a definition of insanity. It's just a saying someone made up so they could have something pithy to say during an argument.

Agree. It is an apocryphal saying. I see it attributed to Einstein quite a bit, but also to others.

I think people have been repeating it so often in an attempt to sound clever, that people start to think it is the actual definition of insanity.

 

[STILLBUSTER]

I hate when people say this. The above statement is in no way, shape or form a definition of insanity. It's just a saying someone made up so they could have something pithy to say during an argument.

Would you accept it as the definition (description?) of futility?

Just wondering because I often get that feeling when reading some of these multi-page threads that drone on and on. Even worse when I actually post in them.

Then again, I sometimes do feel momentary lapses of reason and rationality, which, by definition, do approach insanity. So, maybe ...

( Yet, I keep coming back to do it all over again. )

 

[herbyhawk]

i guess no one really knows what Gesell or Woodbury will do for #' til the season is over, nor will anybody know how the starting lineup will shake out, but as we all should realize by now its not who starts its more about who plays,
White started the the last 14 games, and avg'd 23.8 mpg
Basabe avg'd 20.1 mpg
McCabe avg'd 21.5 mpg
Oglelby avg's 18.7 mpg
Cartwright avg'd 23.7 mpg
May avg'd 14.7 mpg
Brommer even avg'd 7.9 mpg
those were the season totals some are based on total # of games played.
but still the minutes played were spread out. only Gaten had over 30 mpg at 34.6 mpg
and Marble came in 2nd with 29.5 mpg.
i don't see anyone getting over 30 mpg next season as this team will have more quality depth going 2 deep at each position with 2 scholarship players to fill in for injuries. and Stokes who i really don't think is just walking on for the Hell of it. His father may be doing Fran a favor by offerring to pay, allowing Fran to use that scholarship to have 14 scholarship players available to play. and still keep within the 13 total guidelines, Stokes is a kid who went a big growth spurt his senior year and is getting used to his body and how to play at that height. 6'2 to 6'7 thats a big jump in one year
Stokes was a pg now he is a wing and as to learn how to play like a wing, the fact he was taught to handle the ball like a pg it will only make him better.
just like in the end Marble will be better because he learned how to play the point and handle the ball like a point will just make him solid at the wing spot.

and another thing i am learning about this board, GOD FORBID anyone make a prediction of HOW a player MIGHT perform, because if they do there are people on here ready to jump down their throat and call them names or totally ridicule them.

 

[OatesStache]

It is not a bad thing when a good player plays for over 30 mpg.

 

[Section136]

and another thing i am learning about this board, GOD FORBID anyone make a prediction of HOW a player MIGHT perform, because if they do there are people on here ready to jump down their throat and call them names or totally ridicule them.

herby there is no "might" about you or your posts. You are hell bent on being right and there is no way around it. Then you get all butthurt when you are way off and people call you out on it.

For you to say that you predicted a certain player "MIGHT" do something is weak sauce. You only throw that out there months down the road when it finally dawns on you how frickin clueless you look.

 

[STILLBUSTER]

and another thing i am learning about this board, GOD FORBID anyone make a prediction of HOW a player MIGHT perform, because if they do there are people on here ready to jump down their throat and call them names or totally ridicule them.

Approaching 3000 posts and countless hours of lurking and you're just now learning this?

Stay true, herby. Haterz gonna hate.

 

[OatesStache]

If you offer an opinion, you need to be prepared to defend that opinion.

 

[thejumper5]

Darius Stokes averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds as a senior in high school at Linn-Mar. I would say the odds of him ever being even an Archie-level contributor are 1 in 100 at best. Some guys have "it" and some don't. To this point, Stokes simply hasn't had "it".

 

[herbyhawk]

that's the beauty of growth spurts as a pg he was bad, as a wing he might actuallt turn out pretty good . but we won't know till his career is over now will we

 

[thejumper5]

that's the beauty of growth spurts as a pg he was bad, as a wing he might actuallt turn out pretty good . but we won't know till his career is over now will we

I haven't been able to find any articles that confirm that he had a growth spurt. Care to share your source? Perhaps it's common knowledge, but I still need a refresher.

Edit: It looks to be pretty well reported in the message board world. I see that it's in several older threads. I guess I just missed that aspect of the narrative.

 

[herbyhawk]

herby there is no "might" about you or your posts. You are hell bent on being right and there is no way around it. Then you get all butthurt when you are way off and people call you out on it.

For you to say that you predicted a certain player "MIGHT" do something is weak sauce. You only throw that out there months down the road when it finally dawns on you how frickin clueless you look.

you have got to be kidding me. i made a simple prediction .
in no way shape or form did a state as a matter of fact Olaseni would get those #'s.
this just prove what i just posted about somebody just waiting to jump down a posters throat and ridicule them for trying to PREDICT production out of a player.
there is no right or wrong involved in that. it either happens OR it does not.
if it happens great. if not OH WELL . we get to see how the player progresses the following season and again people should be allowed to speculate or predict how he will do the next season, just like people like to speculate on how the new kids will perform.
SPECULATE OR PREDICT are one and the same in looking at how a player performs.
again either he puts up the #'s or he doesn't. it does not mean I was right or wrong.
except to people like you

 

[thejumper5]

I haven't been able to find any articles that confirm that he had a growth spurt. Care to share your source? Perhaps it's common knowledge, but I still need a refresher.

Edit: It looks to be pretty well reported in the message board world. I see that it's in several older threads. I guess I just missed that aspect of the narrative.

Successs! This article is from May 2010.

Hawks add another legacy

Stokes has grown nearly 6 inches over the past two years and like his father, he suspects his growth might continue in college.

 

[Section136]

you have got to be kidding me. i made a simple prediction .
in no way shape or form did a state as a matter of fact Olaseni would get those #'s.
this just prove what i just posted about somebody just waiting to jump down a posters throat and ridicule them for trying to PREDICT production out of a player.
there is no right or wrong involved in that. it either happens OR it does not.
if it happens great. if not OH WELL . we get to see how the player progresses the following season and again people should be allowed to speculate or predict how he will do the next season, just like people like to speculate on how the new kids will perform.
SPECULATE OR PREDICT are one and the same in looking at how a player performs.
again either he puts up the #'s or he doesn't. it does not mean I was right or wrong.
except to people like you

haha, what you are trying to explain is pretty much the definition of right and wrong. You made an absurd prediction regarding Gabe, it did not happen, you were wrong. Really pretty simple.