Compare Resumes: Iowa and ISU

[AdamHawk]

I wouldn't call wins over tourney-bound teams mediocre, but I get your point. That is true. Iowa State had a schedule like Iowa's last year but got a win over KU & Baylor at home (both top 10 RPIs) as well as home & road wins over K-State who was up there pretty high too.

At the end of the day, you have to do what you have to do with your schedule. Tournament worthy teams make the tournament, its as simple as that. If Iowa is an NCAA Tournament team, they'll get in. If not, they won't. The committee does a very good job with this and spends countless hours figuring everything out.

I think we pretty much agree here. The reason I say the teams are pretty even is because of the teams they've beaten. The average RPI of the teams ISU has beaten in the B12 is 108, while 113 for Iowa in the B10. On the other hand, the average RPI of the teams ISU has lost to in the conference is 82, compared to 31 for Iowa. Obviously that doesn't tell the whole story but the point I'm trying to make is the difference in their conference records is pretty much due to the schedule each team has played. Fortunately for Iowa, their schedule has some winnable games coming up. Hopefully they can take care of business and get in along with ISU and everyone is happy.

 

[fsanford]

I have not but we have seen the hype before surrounding teams from this conference, maybe this year will be different. Honestly I could care less, the only point I was trying to make is that they are not considered a major conference. Even if they get 5 teams into the tournament and they all make long runs it will not change the fact that the Mountain West is a mid major conference. Out of the major conferences (B1G, B12, Pac12, Big East, SEC, and ACC) the only conference to play a round robin is the Big 12 and I am sure that will change once they expand again.

Go back and read what I was responding to.

Seems you are applying the BCS rule for basketball, even though there are 3 times as many teams that play division 1 basketball.

The terms mid major is often used to describe the 2nd tier group of college teams.. I don't seem to hear the term mid major applied to the MWC these days, but it is a matter of opinion I guess

Anyway I am hijacking the thread here, going back to the point of the guy on the committee, just because a conference you play in is strong, if you play more games against the bottom half than the top half, that is something that is considered. Along with numerous other things.. And this is one guys opinion does not mean they all look at it the same way.

Its unfortunate Iowa could not trade on the Penn State game at Carver for OSU at Carver or maybe Michigan if simply for a good shot at another quality win.

 

[BryceC]

What if I ask who has the best win?

Best win in what context? Iowa's best wins are WI (24 RPI, unranked) and MN, (15 RPI, tanking). Next best is ISU and then UNI neutral.

ISU's best wins are against KSU (19 RPI, ranked), OU (18 RPI, as blasphemously overrated by RPI as MN is) and BU home and away. Also have some winnable home games against KU and OSU coming up against ranked teams. Pretty similiar resumes unless you add up all the top 100 wins. Of course, outside of the TT headscratcher Iowa is ISU's worst loss.

Brent Blum in a recent article stated this:

"Since the tourney expanded to 68 teams, every school from a power conference (Big East, B1G, Big 12, ACC, SEC, PAC-12) that finished in the top 55 of the RPI made the dance. Boston College (No. 58 in RPI in 2012) and Mississippi State (No. 56 in 2011) were the only two schools in the top 60 of the RPI from a power conference that didn't get a ticket over the last two years."

Basically, while RPI may not be the end all be all, it's a pretty good indicator of who is actually getting in.

 

[deanvogs]

The home team has won 9 of last 10 in the series. Home court is a big deal.

Home court is a big deal, and to be honest I understand why ISU fan probably thinks they are better than Iowa. Reality is that ISU and Iowa are pretty equal right now. If they played on a neutral court, it would be a toss up. The other reality is that ISU will probably be dancing, and Iowa needs a very strong finish to get to the Tourney. Much of that has to do with quality of conference, strength of schedule, etc.

Last year there was no doubt that ISU was a much better team than Iowa. This year they are pretty equal. I would say that Iowa is set up to be better than ISU next year. ISU has some nice parts coming in, so they will close that gap quickly.

Needless to say I think it is awesome that both BB programs are getting better, getting to the tournament, etc. Iowa and ISU can both have good programs at the same time, and that is awesome for the state and the fans if you ask me.

 

[ssckelley]

Seems you are applying the BCS rule for basketball, even though there are 3 times as many teams that play division 1 basketball.

The terms mid major is often used to describe the 2nd tier group of college teams.. I don't seem to hear the term mid major applied to the MWC these days, but it is a matter of opinion I guess

I suppose some use the BCS and Non BCS as a way to determine "mid major" status but IMO the Big East really is not a major conference anymore in football, but that is a different argument entirely. In basketball you do have a 2nd tier of conferences (Mountain West, WCC, Atlantic 10, and even the Missouri Valley) that are better than most other mid major conferences but all are still generally considered "mid major".

The big 6 conferences are still the power conferences even in basketball, at any point in time any of the big 6 (with the exception of the Big East) can pluck teams from these conferences any time they want. While the power conferences are adding schools like TCU and Utah (both from the Mountain West) the Mountain West is adding schools like Utah State and San Jose State to back fill. UNLV, you can make a case for New Mexico, is the only school with a solid basketball tradition.

Going back to your original point, next year the Mountain West will have 11 teams so unless they expand to a 20 game schedule even they will not be playing a round robin basketball schedule.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

I kind of am, but I will admit I don't know that much about what goes into it. We play in a tough tough conference shouldn't that make our rpi higher than the clowns playing in their dog crap conference? And both played cupcakes in the non conference right? And they only have like one more win than us? And we have the head to head. I would think our rpi should be closer. Like I said though, I don't follow this closely at all.

 

[Wassabbe]

Iowa State is NOT a lock. IMO they still need 3 wins and their schedule after Saturday is tough.

The Big 10 is far and away the better conference this year but Iowa's conference schedule isn't any harder than Iowa State's due to the fact we don't play Mich, MSU, OSU, or Illinois more than once. And our OOC is so pathetically bad that I still don't know if we get in if we finish at 10-8 in the conference. Our RPI will be in the 60's still and that's dicey.

 

[clicheusername3]

I kind of am, but I will admit I don't know that much about what goes into it. We play in a tough tough conference shouldn't that make our rpi higher than the clowns playing in their dog crap conference? And both played cupcakes in the non conference right? And they only have like one more win than us? And we have the head to head. I would think our rpi should be closer. Like I said though, I don't follow this closely at all.

But when you don't play the teams that make the conference tough it will obviously hurt you. It's not rocket science, probably not even algebra II level math we're talking here.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

I thought we played Indiana, Michigan, Michigan state, Ohio state, wisky, and Minnesota? I think they are the tougher teams in the big as far as I know.

 

[Wassabbe]

I thought we played Indiana, Michigan, Michigan state, Ohio state, wisky, and Minnesota? I think they are the tougher teams in the big as far as I know.

We did. But we only played 3 of those teams ONCE. That hurts the RPI and it diminshes our making fun of another conference. Sure the Big 10 is hard, but our slate in the Big 10 isn't bad at all.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

Gotcha. I still think its bad to play those teams listed this year. i thiught it was a tough schedule. But, so if we win out minus a win over Indiana, how much do you think we can raise our rpi?

 

[Wassabbe]

Gotcha. I still think its bad to play those teams listed this year. i thiught it was a tough schedule. But, so if we win out minus a win over Indiana, how much do you think we can raise our rpi?

Somewhere in the 60's would be my guess. I think we are 83rd right now? Nebraska and Purdue are 3 games against teams outside the top 100. They won't help much. Illinois and Indiana will give us a solid boost.

Home against Illinois and @Nebraska are the only two games I'm still nervous about. More nervous about Saturday than any game the rest of the year.

 

[HawkeyeMHA]

We def need to win out then IMO. 60's rpi doesn't get us in does it? I wouldn't think so. Kind of bleak

 

[DexterMorgan]

Best win in what context? Iowa's best wins are WI (24 RPI, unranked) and MN, (15 RPI, tanking). Next best is ISU and then UNI neutral.

ISU's best wins are against KSU (19 RPI, ranked), OU (18 RPI, as blasphemously overrated by RPI as MN is) and BU home and away. Also have some winnable home games against KU and OSU coming up against ranked teams. Pretty similiar resumes unless you add up all the top 100 wins. Of course, outside of the TT headscratcher Iowa is ISU's worst loss.

Brent Blum in a recent article stated this:



Basically, while RPI may not be the end all be all, it's a pretty good indicator of who is actually getting in.

Just joking around.

 

[Wassabbe]

We def need to win out then IMO. 60's rpi doesn't get us in does it? I wouldn't think so. Kind of bleak

It could get us in. We'd be 10-8 and that carries some weight. We would be right on the bubble and needing a win or two in the BIG tournament.

And maybe I'm wrong and our RPI would be higher. I doubt it but maybe.

 

[clicheusername3]

It could get us in. We'd be 10-8 and that carries some weight. We would be right on the bubble and needing a win or two in the BIG tournament.

And maybe I'm wrong and our RPI would be higher. I doubt it but maybe.

False: We'd be 21-10 (with a loss to IND; sorry it's going to happen) in the eyes of the committee.

 

[Wassabbe]

False: We'd be 21-10 (with a loss to IND; sorry it's going to happen) in the eyes of the committee.

It's not false we would be 10-8 and 21-10. Both are decent records and worse records have got in before. Quit arguing just to argue.

 

[Campbell]

It could get us in. We'd be 10-8 and that carries some weight. We would be right on the bubble and needing a win or two in the BIG tournament.

And maybe I'm wrong and our RPI would be higher. I doubt it but maybe.

The 10-8 record doesn't matter. Who those 10 wins came against does.

I'll give you WI and MN as quality league victories. The remaining eight wins would presumably be: NW twice, Penn State twice, plus two against Neb, and home games against Purdue and Illinois to get to your 10-win mark.

The records of those teams (overall, in conf).

NW 13-14, 4-10
Penn State 8-18, 0-14
Nebraska 12-14, 3-10.
Purdue 12-14, 5-8

Add them up, and that means seven of your 10 conference wins were against teams who are a combined 45-60 overall and 12-42 in conference. The committee cares about who you beat, not how many wins you have, and that is why Iowa isn't on the bubble yet.

Without beating Indiana and/or Illinois, I don't think it happens.

EDIT: Updated Penn State record.

 

[Wassabbe]

The 10-8 record doesn't matter. Who those 10 wins came against does.

I'll give you WI and MN as quality league victories. The remaining eight wins would presumably be: NW twice, Penn State twice, plus two against Neb, and home games against Purdue and Illinois to get to your 10-win mark.

The records of those teams (overall, in conf).

NW 13-14, 4-10
Penn State 8-18, 4-14
Nebraska 12-14, 3-10.
Purdue 12-14, 5-8

Add them up, and that means seven of your 10 conference wins were against teams who are a combined 45-60 overall and 16-42 in conference. The committee cares about who you beat, not how many wins you have, and that is why Iowa isn't on the bubble yet.

Without beating Indiana and/or Illinois, I don't think it happens.

I agree. But 10-8 still carries weight. To say it doesn't is wrong

PSU is 0-14 btw

Our 6 wins in conference come from teams with a combined conference record of 24-60. Thanks Wisconsin! It'd be 14-56 without them

 

[clicheusername3]

It's not false we would be 10-8 and 21-10. Both are decent records and worse records have got in before. Quit arguing just to argue.

Conference record is not a consideration for selection so it doesn't matter. Stop being wrong just for the sake of being wrong.