Compare Resumes: Iowa and ISU

AdamHawk said:
I actually agree here. Iowa and ISU are about even, which is yet another reason why the RPI is a silly tool for the selection committee to place so much emphasis on. It tends to overrate certain teams (see Mountain West) and underrate others.
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Not sure if this response was to me or not, but I was arguing the point that one guy made saying Iowa (in conference play) has done better than ISU (in conference play). I think that's false, I think ISU has actually done better, and that doesn't even include the non-conference.

Quite frankly, there are some holes in Iowa's resume that ISU just doesn't have. I don't think there's a chance that even if Iowa does get in, that they get a higher seed.
 
AdamHawk said:
I actually agree here. Iowa and ISU are about even, which is yet another reason why the RPI is a silly tool for the selection committee to place so much emphasis on. It tends to overrate certain teams (see Mountain West) and underrate others.
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GoState1028 said:
Not sure if this response was to me or not, but I was arguing the point that one guy made saying Iowa (in conference play) has done better than ISU (in conference play). I think that's false, I think ISU has actually done better, and that doesn't even include the non-conference.

Quite frankly, there are some holes in Iowa's resume that ISU just doesn't have. I don't think there's a chance that even if Iowa does get in, that they get a higher seed.
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Ok then I guess we don't agree. I do not think ISU has done better in conference play than Iowa. ISU has a really bad loss on their résumé, in conference which is something Iowa does not. On the other hand, both teams have similar good wins. Again, I think the two are pretty much on par and I think the RPI is not a good measuring tool.
 
AdamHawk said:
Ok then I guess we don't agree. I do not think ISU has done better in conference play than Iowa. ISU has a really bad loss on their résumé, in conference which is something Iowa does not. On the other hand, both teams have similar good wins. Again, I think the two are pretty much on par and I think the RPI is not a good measuring tool.
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Well, I'll use Sagarin then.

In conference Iowa State has wins over:
#21 Kansas State (Home)
#27 Baylor (Home AND Away)
#38 Oklahoma (Home)
#66 Texas (Home)
#85 West Virginia (Home)

Six Top-100 Wins.


Iowa has wins over:
#10 Wisconsin (Home)
#20 Minnesota (Home)
#97 Northwestern (Home AND Away)

Four Top-100 Wins.

Iowa State has one sub-100 loss, to Texas Tech (200+). Iowa has none.

Even with that loss factored in, I think Iowa State's still done more in conference play. Add to it the fact that the committee has on record said multiple times that good wins outweigh bad losses, and I don't think there's much argument here at all.

Iowa State has four more chances to beat top-100 teams. Iowa has three left.
 
pumpdog20 said:
Top 100? They only let in 65 and about 10-15 of them are due to winning some weak *** conference.
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It's a wins justification that the committee looks at.

If you want to look at top 50, Iowa State has 4 to Iowa's 2, and one of them is on the road. Any single way you want to slice this, Iowa State has done more in conference play. It's just the numbers.
 
GoState1028 said:
It's a wins justification that the committee looks at.

If you want to look at top 50, Iowa State has 4 to Iowa's 2, and one of them is on the road. Any single way you want to slice this, Iowa State has done more in conference play. It's just the numbers.
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I've got no dog in the fight, I just think it's silly to go to 100 when only 65 get in.
 
I think you actually proved my point further. So ISU has a couple more conference wins over mediocre (at best) teams. They also have a (very) bad loss. The fact is, Iowa has just had to play more quality teams than ISU and unfortunately haven't been able to knock many of them off...ISU just hasn't played many quality teams. Like I said before, they're pretty even.
 
Also, I think the only reason ISU has more of those mediocre wins is simply because they have had more opportunities for those wins than Iowa. The only loss Iowa has in the conference that wasn't against at top 25 RPI team was at Purdue in OT. I don't care how down Purdue is, that is a tough place to play.
 
ISU looks like a lock to get in at this point. Iowa does not.

It sucks, but that is just they way it is. There is no way to know how each does in the other conference, but my guess is that Iowa in the Big 12 playing the opponents that ISU did, Iowa wins the exact games that ISU has. Same hold true with ISU playing Iowa's schedule in the BIG, I think they would have lost all the games that Iowa did.

I still think Iowa is the better team, but it is close. Iowa beat ISU handily this year, but ISU will probably be in the tourney and Iowa has lots of work to do yet.
 
AdamHawk said:
Also, I think the only reason ISU has more of those mediocre wins is simply because they have had more opportunities for those wins than Iowa. The only loss Iowa has in the conference that wasn't against at top 25 RPI team was at Purdue in OT. I don't care how down Purdue is, that is a tough place to play.
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I wouldn't call wins over tourney-bound teams mediocre, but I get your point. That is true. Iowa State had a schedule like Iowa's last year but got a win over KU & Baylor at home (both top 10 RPIs) as well as home & road wins over K-State who was up there pretty high too.

At the end of the day, you have to do what you have to do with your schedule. Tournament worthy teams make the tournament, its as simple as that. If Iowa is an NCAA Tournament team, they'll get in. If not, they won't. The committee does a very good job with this and spends countless hours figuring everything out.
 
GoState1028 said:
I wouldn't call wins over tourney-bound teams mediocre, but I get your point. That is true. Iowa State had a schedule like Iowa's last year but got a win over KU & Baylor at home (both top 10 RPIs) as well as home & road wins over K-State who was up there pretty high too.

At the end of the day, you have to do what you have to do with your schedule. Tournament worthy teams make the tournament, its as simple as that. If Iowa is an NCAA Tournament team, they'll get in. If not, they won't. The committee does a very good job with this and spends countless hours figuring everything out.
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I agree with this. For the most part there are usually only one or two teams with legitimate arguments about not making the tourney, and this would be the case if the cut off was 4, 6, 32, 64, or 68 teams that get in.
 
RPI isn't the greatest but there is a reason it is what the committee uses and that reason is it is the best out there. If it wasn't they would use some other ranking system. It's not the end all but if you are from a major conference and in the top 60 , chances are you are in.
 
5. Kansas 6 7. Ind 25
18. OU 5 9. MSU 8
19. KSU 40 12. Mich 32
30. OSU 42 15. MINN 1
43. ISU 71 24. Wisc 10
61. Baylor 27 26. tOSU 22
97. WVU 52 29. ILL 7
128.Texas 66 84. Iowa 110
227.TT 110 104.Nebby 18
241.TCU 130 121.NW 48
124.Purdue 50
199.PSU 40


60. BYU 93 67. UNI 55

First number is RPI, second is SOS. If you can't figure out why Iowa is not higher in RPI, maybe you should compare their SOS to other teams in the two conferences.
 
deanvogs said:
ISU looks like a lock to get in at this point. Iowa does not.

It sucks, but that is just they way it is. There is no way to know how each does in the other conference, but my guess is that Iowa in the Big 12 playing the opponents that ISU did, Iowa wins the exact games that ISU has. Same hold true with ISU playing Iowa's schedule in the BIG, I think they would have lost all the games that Iowa did.

I still think Iowa is the better team, but it is close. Iowa beat ISU handily this year, but ISU will probably be in the tourney and Iowa has lots of work to do yet.
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The home team has won 9 of last 10 in the series. Home court is a big deal.
 
gachawk said:
The Big 12 is a joke this year. Kansas is the best team and they lost to TCU. Can you envision Indiana losing to Penn State? I didn't think so. And i think Penn State is better than TCU and Texas Tech.
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A joke is the Pac 12 last year. The Big 12 is not strong at the top but teams 1 through 6 are tournament worthy.
 
ssckelley said:
You do realize that the coaches in that conference know how to massage the RPI to their favor, right? It has been documented on how they do it. When it comes tournament time schools from this conference do not last long.

Past 10 years:

2012 1-4
2011 4-3 (BYU & SDSU Sweet 16)
2010 2-4
2009 0-2
2008 1-2
2007 2-2 (UNLV sweet 16)
2006 0-2
2005 2-2 (Utah sweet 16)
2004 0-3
2003 1-3

Total record the past 10 years: 13-27
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Coaches knowing how to massage their RPI is not exclusive to the Mountain West. No reasonable person would say the MWC is better than the Big Ten this year, but to use the past 10 years to prove the MWC is not very good this year is faulty logic.

Have you watched many games from that conference this year? I have and it's very good basketball. And New Mexico, UNLV, San Diego State and Colorado State are tough venues to play at, so it's not like C-USA or the A-10 where you are playing in front of a lot of 3-4,000 size crowds. These schools pack it in and make it loud. Mountain West is very worthy of 4-5 bids this year.
 
GoState1028 said:
It's a wins justification that the committee looks at.

If you want to look at top 50, Iowa State has 4 to Iowa's 2, and one of them is on the road. Any single way you want to slice this, Iowa State has done more in conference play. It's just the numbers.
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What if I ask who has the best win?
 
TecmoSuperHawk said:
Coaches knowing how to massage their RPI is not exclusive to the Mountain West. No reasonable person would say the MWC is better than the Big Ten this year, but to use the past 10 years to prove the MWC is not very good this year is faulty logic.

Have you watched many games from that conference this year? I have and it's very good basketball. And New Mexico, UNLV, San Diego State and Colorado State are tough venues to play at, so it's not like C-USA or the A-10 where you are playing in front of a lot of 3-4,000 size crowds. These schools pack it in and make it loud. Mountain West is very worthy of 4-5 bids this year.
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I have not but we have seen the hype before surrounding teams from this conference, maybe this year will be different. Honestly I could care less, the only point I was trying to make is that they are not considered a major conference. Even if they get 5 teams into the tournament and they all make long runs it will not change the fact that the Mountain West is a mid major conference. Out of the major conferences (B1G, B12, Pac12, Big East, SEC, and ACC) the only conference to play a round robin is the Big 12 and I am sure that will change once they expand again.

Go back and read what I was responding to.
 
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