Chauvin Verdict

[HawkGold]

To be honest, sometimes I think you pool everything under racism and completely forgot at prejudice. No fault of your own as I think this is a systemic issue in our nation and world now.

There now doesn't seem to be a classification of prejudice and now is either "Not racist" or "Racist". Either on or off. I think there is more prejudice in our nation today then true systemic racism. People have moved the needle on what the true definition of racism is. It's suppressing a certain group because of certain reasons. I'm talking a owner/boss not hiring an individual just based on the color of their skin. Not serving a customer based on same or religion, etc.. Not letting a student into a college based on ........... That crap is not really systemic anymore and is racism.

People need to understand the definition of racism vs prejudice. Rosa Parks would roll her eyes at what some people think is racism in 2021. She'd be like "You have no idea!".

I get a lot of people think that. However, I do believe it's a problem. There are several sides to the equation, but the sides need to be looked at separately. You might be surprised at the level. But there are varying degrees. I don't think you can really say what Parks would say. Also, back then, most blacks were financially better off.

 

[HawkGold]

When you say "clouded her judgement" do you mean her judgment to shoot him with a guy or her judgment to accidentally pull the wrong one out?

I know it's easy to say you can tell the difference when it's in your hand, but I've gone as far as to look for my phone when it was in my hand, so I get how it could happen.

As we agree on, better training. I think it's possible that PTSD clouded her decision not to think rationally to a threat. What that exactly looks like only she knows. I know more about ptsd than I wish I did.

 

[HawkGold]

The taser lady thing was an accident. It was an unbelievably crazy brain fart and I don't care what anyone says, every living adult has had at least one serious one in their lives.

Two or three years ago I was driving in Sioux City in the middle of the day, no texting or any other weird distractions. I was the first one at a red light at an intersection with Lewis Blvd which was ridiculously busy. I drove up to the intersection, stopped like I would at a stop sign and proceeded to drive right through like a total idiot. People started honking like crazy and when I looked in my rearview I could see the light was still red and a semi going through doing probably 45 or 50. Tons of other cars too. I could've killed someone or myself, left my kid fatherless...I have no explanation for it, it just happened.

To be clear, this lady fucking killed a kid and she needs to go to prison for some amount of time that a judge decides. You cannot excuse doing that. As a police officer you are given a heavy burden that not only includes the benefit of the doubt in most cases, but also a much higher standard of judgement and action. You know that signing up for the job. If you fail that and kill someone, there's no do-overs.

Where that whole fiasco went wrong was everything leading up to it before weapons even came out. My cousin is a cop in Mesa and they have a lot of weird situations, non-standard traffic stops etc. with a lot of drug use and drug traffic out of Mexico. We talked on the phone the other day and he basically said that whole squad of officers did everything wrong. He said if they ask someone to get out of the car and the person does, the absolute first thing they do without question is shut the car door. If the guy bolts, you at least have a few seconds bought to try and restrain him. After that they move the guy away from the car and if there's an officer available he/she stands in front of the suspect's car door. Anything to keep him from getting back in and causing a shooting or a chase.

According to my cousin, it's a nightmare to get someone out of a car when they don't wanna go. They have the steering wheel, shifter, seats, seatbelts, and 100 other things to grab onto, and all they need to to is straighten out their legs and push against the seat to lock themselves in the seat. There's also a whole lot of places to grab a gun from, or a knife, or a hammer, anything. I'm obviously not a cop, but it seems to me that letting this kid have the chance to make a dumb decision like getting back in the car was what allowed this shit show to happen.

Most bad incidents are like that though. A series of stupid little mistakes that add up into a big one. Would that lady have shot the kid if all of those officers had had the training and experience to know enough to keep him from making a break for it? Probably not.

Fry I've got to hand it to you.... Overall you've done a good job with this. Sometimes you use a brick to kill an ant, but anyway...

 

[PCHawk]

I understand what you mean but in 2021 it’s too late. That lady’s life was over the minute she grabbed her gun.

In the days of Twitter, Facebook, camera phones and body cams she could go completely Scott free and she’d never get a job again or be able to set foot in a public place. Her adult kids will have to dissociate from her as well. Even if she were to get a job at Subway making sandwiches it’d last about a day and a half before someone takes her picture and posts, “Check this out, apparently Subway hires murderers...” and then it’ll go viral on Twitter, make the news, and Subway would put out a statement how she’s being terminated so they don’t lose half their business and their CEOs don’t end up like Papa Murphy.

That chick’s life is over.

The good news is most stories go away completely faster than they pop up. It will be like that for a bit, but she would be yesterdays news soon enough.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I get a lot of people think that. However, I do believe it's a problem. There are several sides to the equation, but the sides need to be looked at separately. You might be surprised at the level. But there are varying degrees. I don't think you can really say what Parks would say. Also, back then, most blacks were financially better off.

Fair enough. Thanks for being objective an open minded to my statement. Yes, I do not know for sure what Rosa Parks would say, but we don't require certain individuals to sit in the back of a bus anymore. Actually,. most everybody of any ethnic group or religion can drive the bus now.

 

[HawkGold]

Fair enough. Thanks for being objective an open minded to my statement. Yes, I do not know for sure what Rosa Parks would say, but we don't require certain individuals to sit in the back of a bus anymore. Actually,. most everybody of any ethnic group or religion can drive the bus now.

We've come a long way. Maybe the further we come, the more difficult it becomes. What in part fuels a lot of this has to do with cell phones and cop video.

 

[Fryowa]

Fair enough. Thanks for being objective an open minded to my statement. Yes, I do not know for sure what Rosa Parks would say, but we don't require certain individuals to sit in the back of a bus anymore. Actually,. most everybody of any ethnic group or religion can drive the bus now.

We've come a long way. Maybe the further we come, the more difficult it becomes. What in part fuels a lot of this has to do with cell phones and cop video.

I don’t think it’s a matter of things having changed much as far as attitudes and perceptions.

I think what’s changed is that because of technology and social media, problems and real world events are much more apparent and in your face now, and people have the ability to start movements overnight. Some are good, some are bad. For instance, for all the good that’s come out of technology and instant media information, I don’t think that immediate cancel culture is a good thing. We leave no grey area and everything has to be 100% black or white (no pun intended). Nothing in life is black and white.

But I digress...

Either way, racism and police brutality have always existed, and I’d argue that they were probably much worse 60 years ago.

But without cellphones, body cams, and social media no one would’ve ever heard of George Floyd, Iowa’s football issues would’ve never seen the light of day without Twitter, and Daunte Wright would’ve just gone down with a false story saying he grabbed for a cop’s gun or something.

The proverbial song remains the same as it ever was, folks, but now we live in a world where the dissemination of information is 1) instantly available to everyone, and 2) a central authority doesn’t have control over hardly any of it—because literally everyone has a 4K camcorder in their pocket that can send that video to the mothership (Twitter, YouTube, Facebook) and when that happens, no one can put the genie back in the bottle once it’s out.

 

[HuckFinn]

I don’t think it’s a matter of things having changed much as far as attitudes and perceptions.

I think what’s changed is that because of technology and social media, problems and real world events are much more apparent and in your face now, and people have the ability to start movements overnight. Some are good, some are bad. For instance, for all the good that’s come out of technology and instant media information, I don’t think that immediate cancel culture is a good thing. We leave no grey area and everything has to be 100% black or white (no pun intended). Nothing in life is black and white.

But I digress...

Either way, racism and police brutality have always existed, and I’d argue that they were probably much worse 60 years ago.

But without cellphones, body cams, and social media no one would’ve ever heard of George Floyd, Iowa’s football issues would’ve never seen the light of day without Twitter, and Daunte Wright would’ve just gone down with a false story saying he grabbed for a cop’s gun or something.

The proverbial song remains the same as it ever was, folks, but now we live in a world where the dissemination of information is 1) instantly available to everyone, and 2) a central authority doesn’t have control over hardly any of it—because literally everyone has a 4K camcorder in their pocket that can send that video to the mothership (Twitter, YouTube, Facebook) and when that happens, no one can put the genie back in the bottle once it’s out.

I would add that the flood of “alternative facts”, disinformation campaigns, strings of assumptions linked together to create a narrative, and a rampant tendency to claim (you) know what really motivates groups or individuals are more about ignorance than social media. And, I am old.

 

[MattinColumbus]

I don’t think it’s a matter of things having changed much as far as attitudes and perceptions.

I think what’s changed is that because of technology and social media, problems and real world events are much more apparent and in your face now, and people have the ability to start movements overnight. Some are good, some are bad. For instance, for all the good that’s come out of technology and instant media information, I don’t think that immediate cancel culture is a good thing. We leave no grey area and everything has to be 100% black or white (no pun intended). Nothing in life is black and white.

But I digress...

Either way, racism and police brutality have always existed, and I’d argue that they were probably much worse 60 years ago.

But without cellphones, body cams, and social media no one would’ve ever heard of George Floyd, Iowa’s football issues would’ve never seen the light of day without Twitter, and Daunte Wright would’ve just gone down with a false story saying he grabbed for a cop’s gun or something.

The proverbial song remains the same as it ever was, folks, but now we live in a world where the dissemination of information is 1) instantly available to everyone, and 2) a central authority doesn’t have control over hardly any of it—because literally everyone has a 4K camcorder in their pocket that can send that video to the mothership (Twitter, YouTube, Facebook) and when that happens, no one can put the genie back in the bottle once it’s out.

And I think that the transparency we get from witness or security videos or body cams is good. If you’re right about it being worse before this, and I think you are, then transparency doesn’t allow the police to reinforce the behavior of bad cops.

To be clear, I don’t believe all cops are bad, or all cops are racist. A small minority likely fit that description. I DO believe that there is systemic racism in how cops relate to black males. All of my black male friends - whether they grew up in the hood or in a middle class or wealthy environment - have at least one story about a bad interaction with a cop. But in the past, those behaviors were hidden, and the good cops were reluctant to call out the bad ones (my opinion). With this new transparency that doesn’t happen......those behaviors are there for all to see. There’s no doubt that Chauvin knelt on Floyd’s neck for 9:29, several minutes of that when Floyd was unresponsive and no threat. In my opinion, Chauvin was guilty, whether his motivation was racial or simply because he wanted to prove how tough he was or if he just thought he needed to do it.

Transparency also helps cops. Here in Columbus, a 16 year old black girl was killed by a cop. The immediate response from media and public figures was condemnation that a cop killed another black person. That cop was even outed by Lebron James on Twitter. But body cam and security video show what happened, from when the cop arrived to when he fired his weapon. There may be debate about training, but when a cop sees a person charging another person with a knife, their training tells them to eliminate the threat. That cop will be backed by the videos, whereas he might’ve been roasted otherwise. (I won‘t get into the current social media issues or media spin.)

So I think transparency is a good thing. it exposes bad behavior and defends rational actions.

Just my take.

 

[HawkGold]

And I think that the transparency we get from witness or security videos or body cams is good. If you’re right about it being worse before this, and I think you are, then transparency doesn’t allow the police to reinforce the behavior of bad cops.

To be clear, I don’t believe all cops are bad, or all cops are racist. A small minority likely fit that description. I DO believe that there is systemic racism in how cops relate to black males. All of my black male friends - whether they grew up in the hood or in a middle class or wealthy environment - have at least one story about a bad interaction with a cop. But in the past, those behaviors were hidden, and the good cops were reluctant to call out the bad ones (my opinion). With this new transparency that doesn’t happen......those behaviors are there for all to see. There’s no doubt that Chauvin knelt on Floyd’s neck for 9:29, several minutes of that when Floyd was unresponsive and no threat. In my opinion, Chauvin was guilty, whether his motivation was racial or simply because he wanted to prove how tough he was or if he just thought he needed to do it.

Transparency also helps cops. Here in Columbus, a 16 year old black girl was killed by a cop. The immediate response from media and public figures was condemnation that a cop killed another black person. That cop was even outed by Lebron James on Twitter. But body cam and security video show what happened, from when the cop arrived to when he fired his weapon. There may be debate about training, but when a cop sees a person charging another person with a knife, their training tells them to eliminate the threat. That cop will be backed by the videos, whereas he might’ve been roasted otherwise. (I won‘t get into the current social media issues or media spin.)

So I think transparency is a good thing. it exposes bad behavior and defends rational actions.

Just my take.

That's what a lot of people think. However, the system is a part of the problem. Just saw my neighbor deputy sheriff ream my siding contractor over parking too close to the mail box.... and he does it every day and isn't nice about it. Generally he's a pretty good guy with an edge. My chief deputy brother is the same way. I think there needs to be more evaluation done and take some cops off the street, even if only for a while. Using the pilot example, pilots that suffer emotional effects from accidents are kept from flying and some are never able to go back. PTSD does change the brain physically.

The officer that shot the girl in Columbus had to have incredible perception to react that fast. That comes from bad experiences. He likely save the life of the girl in pink. Would he have pulled that trigger that fast if the group was white? That's only a 2ndary question. But it did look like in the 2nd video that the girl shot was going to knife the other.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I don’t think it’s a matter of things having changed much as far as attitudes and perceptions.

I think what’s changed is that because of technology and social media, problems and real world events are much more apparent and in your face now, and people have the ability to start movements overnight. Some are good, some are bad. For instance, for all the good that’s come out of technology and instant media information, I don’t think that immediate cancel culture is a good thing. We leave no grey area and everything has to be 100% black or white (no pun intended). Nothing in life is black and white.

But I digress...

Either way, racism and police brutality have always existed, and I’d argue that they were probably much worse 60 years ago.

But without cellphones, body cams, and social media no one would’ve ever heard of George Floyd, Iowa’s football issues would’ve never seen the light of day without Twitter, and Daunte Wright would’ve just gone down with a false story saying he grabbed for a cop’s gun or something.

The proverbial song remains the same as it ever was, folks, but now we live in a world where the dissemination of information is 1) instantly available to everyone, and 2) a central authority doesn’t have control over hardly any of it—because literally everyone has a 4K camcorder in their pocket that can send that video to the mothership (Twitter, YouTube, Facebook) and when that happens, no one can put the genie back in the bottle once it’s out.

I don't think so though. I'm not sure the police had this much bullshit and unknowns to put up with. We now have so many individuals not complying with police, so much mental disease, so many people packing pistols with or without permits. This is very dangerous to police, a unit that are trained to take control of situations, and shoot at any sign of a threat, and to shoot to kill (chest). They aren't trained to take time to analyze situations or if this Johnny is particularly dangerous vs this Johnny. they don't know these individuals to who are are not conforming to their commands. The police are in a tough situation.

Maybe people need to take vids with their phones of all the individuals who fight police or don't conform when stopped. Show many of the successful instances where they talk down or handle a non-compliant individual.

To any police out there, SINCERELY, thank you for your service and putting your lives at risk for the general public!!

 

[MattinColumbus]

That's what a lot of people think. However, the system is a part of the problem. Just saw my neighbor deputy sheriff ream my siding contractor over parking too close to the mail box.... and he does it every day and isn't nice about it. Generally he's a pretty good guy with an edge. My chief deputy brother is the same way. I think there needs to be more evaluation done and take some cops off the street, even if only for a while. Using the pilot example, pilots that suffer emotional effects from accidents are kept from flying and some are never able to go back. PTSD does change the brain physically.

The officer that shot the girl in Columbus had to have incredible perception to react that fast. That comes from bad experiences. He likely save the life of the girl in pink. Would he have pulled that trigger that fast if the group was white? That's only a 2ndary question. But it did look like in the 2nd video that the girl shot was going to knife the other.

I don’t disagree about the system needing overhaul. In general, cops need to de-escalate, not antagonize. The videos of the traffic stop escalating in Va. is a good example. That cop was an asshat and escalated a situation to the point of (my opinion, again) him assaulting the military guy with pepper spray.

My point on transparency echoes what Fry said in his post......without video, it would’ve been two cops’ word against the army officer, and that bad cop would still be on the street harassing other citizens.

Cops, I think, tend to be naturally aggressive. They want to dominate a situation, and I think their training pushes them to escalate. There are certainly systemic issues there. As I said, I think there are racial issues, too. But otoh, a simple traffic stop can go from 0 to gunfire in a few seconds. It’s never just another ho hum day at the office, or may not be.

 

[HawkGold]

Why do Govts and PD's keep doing this?

Regardless of what happened, 20 seconds?

Andrew Brown Jr. was shot in the back of the head by police, family attorney says

Andrew Brown Jr.'s son, who was allowed to view police body camera video of the shooting, said his father was "executed."

www.cbsnews.com

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

Why do Govts and PD's keep doing this?

Regardless of what happened, 20 seconds?

Andrew Brown Jr. was shot in the back of the head by police, family attorney says

Andrew Brown Jr.'s son, who was allowed to view police body camera video of the shooting, said his father was "executed."

www.cbsnews.com

This once again points to lack of proper training and education, aside from racism at the core. Sadly, until the cops start killing white billionaires, nothing of substance will happen.

 

[HawkGold]

This once again points to lack of proper training and education, aside from racism at the core. Sadly, until the cops start killing white billionaires, nothing of substance will happen.

If they wanted to incite a riot, they did what was needed.

 

[BILLYBOBSTEXAS]

Here's the opinion my feeble brain has formed over the past 40 years...

Do not read this if any of you are easily inflamed or jerk off at the sight of a squad car. You've been warned.

There are generally three kinds of people who become police officers.

1) People who genuinely care about their communities and who are honestly out there for no other reason than to help people who need it, and protect other people from folks who want to do bad stuff. These are cops who are disappointed and feel bad for someone who got busted for drugs or made bad choices as a kid, and feels genuine heartache that he or she had to shoot someone or cuff a guy in front of his kids. These unfortunately are a small minority of police officers in my view.

2) Bullied, socially awkward, and non-physically strong/coordinated/athletic people who never fit in as kids, didn't play or succeed at sports, and who didn't succeed with boyfriend/girlfriends. These become cops who have a bone to pick with the general public at large and who take a lot of enjoyment out of "busting" people. They see it as vindication of the shit people did to them in the past. Thankfully these are also a small minority from what I've seen throughout my life. We have one currently in the town I live in who I went to high school with, and he in fact 100% takes joy in people's screw ups and bad fortune. He's said so.

3) The last group is by FAR the most prevalent and these folks should not be police officers. These are the ones who get into the profession for the thrill and status of being a cop riding around with 30 lbs of body armor that makes them look like Bret Bielema at his fattest, 12 extra mags on their vest, and pray everyday that they get to finally use that AR that's been riding around in the back of their Explorer for the past several years. They like to be "in the shit," to use a fitting phrase from the movie Full Metal Jacket and usually have some shitty tattoos with blue lines on them and the obligatory skulls and American flags worked in here and there. These guys/gals are testosteroned to the max to make up for their small wieners and other reproductive appendages, and they get a hell of a lot of joy out of fucking with people. They love to tell everyone they meet at first sight that they're a cop and how they've got 17 different certifications in SWAT "schools" and have a GM rank in USPSA (google it), but if they come across a kid crying on a street corner or choking on a jolly rancher they wouldn't have a fucking clue what to do about it, nor would they care because it would take away from their arrest quota. You can easily spot them by their huge blue line American flag in the back window of their lifted pick up and the Smith and Wesson decal on the rear passenger window. These cops don't give a F about anything other than being aggro with everyone they come across, including their families. Know this, folks......these cops do not want low crime and safety. At All. They want you to break the law so they can put their authority on you. They WANT crime so they can play pretend Afghanistan. And unfortunately this group of cops is by far and away the most numerous and common one out there. And these are the ones who killed Floyd, and Walter Scott (forgot about him, didn’t you...), and Taylor, and a whole bunch of other people. Until there's no incentive for these types to be cops, they will be the norm, not the exception. Make no mistake, these guys/girls want more crime. Not less.

I think (hope) you have #1 and #3 mixed up. JMHO.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Black Army lieutenant pepper sprayed by Virginia police officer

A US Army officer has filed a federal lawsuit against two Virginia police officers who reportedly pepper-sprayed and assaulted him, before warning that he wa...

www.youtube.com

How did these MotherFuckers become police officials

 

[PCHawk]

Here's the opinion my feeble brain has formed over the past 40 years...

Do not read this if any of you are easily inflamed or jerk off at the sight of a squad car. You've been warned.

There are generally three kinds of people who become police officers.

1) People who genuinely care about their communities and who are honestly out there for no other reason than to help people who need it, and protect other people from folks who want to do bad stuff. These are cops who are disappointed and feel bad for someone who got busted for drugs or made bad choices as a kid, and feels genuine heartache that he or she had to shoot someone or cuff a guy in front of his kids. These unfortunately are a small minority of police officers in my view.

2) Bullied, socially awkward, and non-physically strong/coordinated/athletic people who never fit in as kids, didn't play or succeed at sports, and who didn't succeed with boyfriend/girlfriends. These become cops who have a bone to pick with the general public at large and who take a lot of enjoyment out of "busting" people. They see it as vindication of the shit people did to them in the past. Thankfully these are also a small minority from what I've seen throughout my life. We have one currently in the town I live in who I went to high school with, and he in fact 100% takes joy in people's screw ups and bad fortune. He's said so.

3) The last group is by FAR the most prevalent and these folks should not be police officers. These are the ones who get into the profession for the thrill and status of being a cop riding around with 30 lbs of body armor that makes them look like Bret Bielema at his fattest, 12 extra mags on their vest, and pray everyday that they get to finally use that AR that's been riding around in the back of their Explorer for the past several years. They like to be "in the shit," to use a fitting phrase from the movie Full Metal Jacket and usually have some shitty tattoos with blue lines on them and the obligatory skulls and American flags worked in here and there. These guys/gals are testosteroned to the max to make up for their small wieners and other reproductive appendages, and they get a hell of a lot of joy out of fucking with people. They love to tell everyone they meet at first sight that they're a cop and how they've got 17 different certifications in SWAT "schools" and have a GM rank in USPSA (google it), but if they come across a kid crying on a street corner or choking on a jolly rancher they wouldn't have a fucking clue what to do about it, nor would they care because it would take away from their arrest quota. You can easily spot them by their huge blue line American flag in the back window of their lifted pick up and the Smith and Wesson decal on the rear passenger window. These cops don't give a F about anything other than being aggro with everyone they come across, including their families. Know this, folks......these cops do not want low crime and safety. At All. They want you to break the law so they can put their authority on you. They WANT crime so they can play pretend Afghanistan. And unfortunately this group of cops is by far and away the most numerous and common one out there. Easily 90%. And these are the ones who killed Floyd, and Walter Scott (forgot about him, didn’t you...), and Taylor, and a whole bunch of other people. Until there's no incentive for these types to be cops, they will be the norm, not the exception. Make no mistake, these guys/girls want more crime. Not less.

Completely agree with the three categories. I would say the middle one is by far the most prevalent tho. If the 3rd one made up 90% of the force, there would be hundreds of police killings per day.

 

[HawkGold]

Completely agree with the three categories. I would say the middle one is by far the most prevalent tho. If the 3rd one made up 90% of the force, there would be hundreds of police killings per day.

Agree with most. Not sure I agree with #2 having grown up in a law enforcement family and we had a steady stream of cops in and out of our house. My dad and brother fit #3. My neighbor fits #3. Don't remember seeing a #2. My dad should never have been allowed to keep his badge. Unloaded his pistol on a car of a guy who was burglarizing at 3 am. They caught his buddy. He shot in a residential area. The car was found in KC identified by bullet holes in the side. Dangerous high-speed chases of teen 100+ and down gravel roads. Two accidents with that resulting in hospitalizations. Brother is a lot like him. Obviously #2's exist, but didn't see any. Also I think the long term #1s get jaded.

 

[HawkGold]

Completely agree with the three categories. I would say the middle one is by far the most prevalent tho. If the 3rd one made up 90% of the force, there would be hundreds of police killings per day.

Our local cops are a lot like that and have only killed one person.