Bohannon surgery -might miss season

[phdsvp]

Sorry, I just can't put a positive spin on this, this is how I felt the year we lost I think Davis to the NBA. It's just hard for me to believe freshman and the returning players are gonna win consistently. I'm gonna treat it as a rebuilding year. We are gonna see a brand new team. I didn't know he was hurt, have even greater respect for what he did last season.

Fran has the easiest job in the world. He doesn't have to leave the state to recruit, he gets crazy contract extensions seemingly at random, and around 50% of his teams get "excuses" so everyone knows that results don't count. BUY THOSE SEASON TICKETS TODAY!

 

[Fryowa]

The only reason I disagree with you here regarding Garza or Nunge, is that there are other players behind them who have played at a Big 10 level before - Kriener, Pemsl. Without JBo, there is a player that will be starting and playing huge minutes, either in CJF or Toussaint who have never played a minute, and don't have much of a recruiting pedigree. His WS numbers might be close to Gessell, but I think anybody would take Gessell on the team for next year no questions asked.

Nunge is obviously a projection on my part, but given the size he's put on (and according to some people height), I think Iowa finally has a legit big man, which is becoming a requirement in the B1G. It isn't a coincidence that Michigan, MSU, Purdue, and Wisconsin make it a priority and lean hard on those types of players.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Other than a couple years ago when they tanked the whole season, they've been bubble team at worst for 6 of the last 7 years. Look at some previous teams rosters and tell me they were much better than this one. Wieskamp and Garza will be battling for one of the best 1 2 punches Fran has had. Fran has had 2 true freshmen point guards and barely missed the tournament both times. He's won with guys like McCabe, Oglesby, and Dom fricking Uhl being major contributors.

I do agree that it's looking bleak for having a good year right now. But Fran is almost always bubble at worst regardless of his roster (as long as the roster has his guys on it). I can see freshman Joe T/ Connor being equal to freshman Gesell/Clemmons. I could see sophomore Wieskamp being as good or better than junior Marble. I could see Nunge being a little worse than sophomore White. And I can see Garza being way better than freshman Woody. I also think next years bench will be better than that year. They were one screw job in the Big 10 tourney from making the dance. Why can't this team be close?

Could the argument also be made that a typical Fran team is on the bubble, meaning that’s likely where next years team would have landed prior to attrition and injury? Meaning following the injury and other attrition we have we are going to take a step back. Isn’t that kind of what happened in our really crappy season when Williams left right before the season and then Connor went down?

 

[InGoodCo]

Could the argument also be made that a typical Fran team is on the bubble, meaning that’s likely where next years team would have landed prior to attrition and injury? Meaning following the injury and other attrition we have we are going to take a step back. Isn’t that kind of what happened in our really crappy season when Williams left right before the season and then Connor went down?

well, I guess it's better that Fran at least knows all of this now and has the off season to prepare his team. I think he better check that portal again tho

 

[NikeHawk21]

Let's compare next years team to when Cook was a freshman now. They were the first team out or so. Joe T needs to be as good as Bohannon as a freshman. I think that's possible. CJ needs to be as good as Moss as a redshirt freshman. I think thats possible. Wieskamp needs to be as good as Jok as a senior. I think it will be close. He won't get the accolades for leading the conference in scoring, but he might be as good of an all around player. Garza needs to be as good as Cook as a freshman. I think he will be better. That team had a supporting cast of Wagner, Pemsl, Baer, William's, and Uhl. I think this supporting cast can be better. That team also started the year with Williams and Uhl as starters.

Couple things to point out with this one.

JBo was freshman all B1G that year. Probably a stretch to think Toussaint gets there.

I do not agree on the supporting cast at all. Baer was 6th man of the year that season and Pemsl averaged something like 9/5 on over 60% shooting off the bench.

The next flaw in you’re analysis is that each season and schedule is organic. That team was “bubble” in their resume’ because they won road games at Maryland and UW, which also happened to be when both of those teams were struggling. That Iowa team you referenced came in at 71st in the KenPom. In a typical year 71 in the KenPom is not tournament bubble or quite frankly very close at all.

 

[NikeHawk21]

well, I guess it's better that Fran at least knows all of this now and has the off season to prepare his team. I think he better check that portal again tho

I hope he checks the portal but it might be too late. I honestly have no clue what’s left.

The thing that bothers me is that it sounds like Fran knew both about Bohannon’s injury and what it could potentially mean and also about Moss potentially leaving several weeks ago, but yet he didn’t feel the need to go hard after a grad transfer.

 

[Fryowa]

I hope he checks the portal but it might be too late. I honestly have no clue what’s left.

The thing that bothers me is that it sounds like Fran knew both about Bohannon’s injury and what it could potentially mean and also about Moss potentially leaving several weeks ago, but yet he didn’t feel the need to go hard after a grad transfer.

If there was anything left on the portal I’d imagine he would have taken that before putting still on scholarship. I know we have extras, but if you were going to see a (decent) transfer it would have happened already.

 

[deanvogs]

All those players you mentioned were at different points in their careers is how we missed the tournament. If they all could have been seniors at the same time we could have been a 1 seed.

Of course losing those guys is a big blow. That's why my post was about how it was possible to still make the tournament instead of how it would be possible to win the Big 10 if we had those 3 guys back.

Let's compare next years team to when Cook was a freshman now. They were the first team out or so. Joe T needs to be as good as Bohannon as a freshman. I think that's possible. CJ needs to be as good as Moss as a redshirt freshman. I think thats possible. Wieskamp needs to be as good as Jok as a senior. I think it will be close. He won't get the accolades for leading the conference in scoring, but he might be as good of an all around player. Garza needs to be as good as Cook as a freshman. I think he will be better. That team had a supporting cast of Wagner, Pemsl, Baer, William's, and Uhl. I think this supporting cast can be better. That team also started the year with Williams and Uhl as starters.

I hope you are right PC, I really do. It just seems pretty pie in the sky to me, and you can never convince me that have 4 total guards rotating between 3 spots is a good thing. Especially when 2 of them are totally unproven, and a 3rd one is a better baseball player than basketball player.

 

[InGoodCo]

I hope he checks the portal but it might be too late. I honestly have no clue what’s left.

The thing that bothers me is that it sounds like Fran knew both about Bohannon’s injury and what it could potentially mean and also about Moss potentially leaving several weeks ago, but yet he didn’t feel the need to go hard after a grad transfer.

How do you know that? I am not saying you are wrong or right and I am not trying argue, but how do you know he didn't go hard or isn't going hard at a transfer? Is it because he didn't get one or you have some knowledge to that fact? In recent interviews I've heard in the last few weeks he's mentioned recruiting transfers several times and saying it's a nature of the today's game. Because he didn't get one, doesn't really mean he didn't go hard at one - Iowa's name at least came up on 3 of the highest profile transfers on the market. They didn't or haven't gotten one yet, doesn't mean they haven't tried.

 

[NikeHawk21]

How do you know that? I am not saying you are wrong or right and I am not trying argue, but how do you know he didn't go hard or isn't going hard at a transfer? Is it because he didn't get one or you have some knowledge to that fact? In recent interviews I've heard in the last few weeks he's mentioned recruiting transfers several times and saying it's a nature of the today's game. Because he didn't get one, doesn't really mean he didn't go hard at one - Iowa's name at least came up on 3 of the highest profile transfers on the market. They didn't or haven't gotten one yet, doesn't mean they haven't tried.

Grad transfers and sit out transfers are different things. Iowa’s name has appeared on the list for a couple sit out transfers and they got a visit with DJ Harvey.

You want to know where I get my information? Twitter, other Hawkeye sites, and I might even have a subscription to an insider site. There has been no mention of any real Iowa connection with Grad transfers. If he were pursuing them we would most likely hear about it somewhere (as we did with the sit out transfers). We haven’t.

It’s certainly possible they were pursuing grad transfers and we didn’t know about it, but I’d say fairly unlikely. Maybe we will get involved now and get someone, but again pretty unlikely.

 

[PCHawk]

Could the argument also be made that a typical Fran team is on the bubble, meaning that’s likely where next years team would have landed prior to attrition and injury? Meaning following the injury and other attrition we have we are going to take a step back. Isn’t that kind of what happened in our really crappy season when Williams left right before the season and then Connor went down?

Good point about usually not losing players early. But my counter point would be we've lost better players to graduation and still improved. It really doesn't matter what reason your players are gone. It only matters who is back. My point was the team we have back is very comparable to the last two times we've had a freshman starting point guard and we almost made the tournament both times. My whole point tho was that it is POSSIBLE to still have a decent year. I'm not saying it's likely or I think it will happen.

 

[PCHawk]

Couple things to point out with this one.

JBo was freshman all B1G that year. Probably a stretch to think Toussaint gets there.

I do not agree on the supporting cast at all. Baer was 6th man of the year that season and Pemsl averaged something like 9/5 on over 60% shooting off the bench.

The next flaw in you’re analysis is that each season and schedule is organic. That team was “bubble” in their resume’ because they won road games at Maryland and UW, which also happened to be when both of those teams were struggling. That Iowa team you referenced came in at 71st in the KenPom. In a typical year 71 in the KenPom is not tournament bubble or quite frankly very close at all.

I think we can all agree that an all freshmen team has a lot to do with who has the most opportunity to play a lot. A lot also has to do with how much you score more than your overall game. If Joe T gets 30 minutes per game out of necessity like Bohannon did, he's already halfway to making that team. He probably won't score as much so I doubt he gets there, even if his overall game is more helpful to the team.

I agree we won't have Baer which is a blow, but you can't say Pemsl when we have the same guy 3 years older. That team also didn't have a Connor, Kriener, or Patrick. Instead they had Uhl. William's, and Ellingson.

 

[PCHawk]

I hope you are right PC, I really do. It just seems pretty pie in the sky to me, and you can never convince me that have 4 total guards rotating between 3 spots is a good thing. Especially when 2 of them are totally unproven, and a 3rd one is a better baseball player than basketball player.

I can't be right because I'm not predicting anything. I'm just saying it's possible and pointing out 2 very similar situations where they were very close to making it to the tournament. It's possible Joe T and CJ both suck. If so, we are in really bad shape. But it's also possible they are both way better than we hoped. If so, we will be playing for seed my late February. If I had to say, I'd say it's more likely that they are somewhere between suck and really good.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I think we can all agree that an all freshmen team has a lot to do with who has the most opportunity to play a lot. A lot also has to do with how much you score more than your overall game. If Joe T gets 30 minutes per game out of necessity like Bohannon did, he's already halfway to making that team. He probably won't score as much so I doubt he gets there, even if his overall game is more helpful to the team.

I agree we won't have Baer which is a blow, but you can't say Pemsl when we have the same guy 3 years older. That team also didn't have a Connor, Kriener, or Patrick. Instead they had Uhl. William's, and Ellingson.

Pemsl got to play his more natural spot of the 5 that year because we didn’t have Garza in the fold.

Anyway I want to circle back to the 71 in the KenPom thing. That team had a resume’ of a bubble team but according to KenPom really wasn’t on that level. I think that is realistic given the steamrolling they took at the hands of a marginal Indiana team and then a home loss in the NIT.

But I get what you are saying here. We have a chance to be competitive at times next year and maybe fight near the bubble, if a few things fall into place. But coming from where we were that’s pretty sad and the new floor of next years team is fairly bad I would say.

 

[PCHawk]

Pemsl got to play his more natural spot of the 5 that year because we didn’t have Garza in the fold.

Anyway I want to circle back to the 71 in the KenPom thing. That team had a resume’ of a bubble team but according to KenPom really wasn’t on that level. I think that is realistic given the steamrolling they took at the hands of a marginal Indiana team and then a home loss in the NIT.

But I get what you are saying here. We have a chance to be competitive at times next year and maybe fight near the bubble, if a few things fall into place. But coming from where we were that’s pretty sad and the new floor of next years team is fairly bad I would say.

The floor is lower and the ceiling is lower. I guess the ceiling may not be lower. It's just way more unrealistic. We would need CJ to be like Gatens, Joe T to be like freshman Tre Burke, Nunge to be like a tall White, and Patrick to be like some other really skinny white player who was good in the past. Any one of those things could happen, but for 3 or 4 of them to happen is really unlikely. Odds are very much in favor of being NIT or worse next year.

 

[InGoodCo]

Grad transfers and sit out transfers are different things. Iowa’s name has appeared on the list for a couple sit out transfers and they got a visit with DJ Harvey.

You want to know where I get my information? Twitter, other Hawkeye sites, and I might even have a subscription to an insider site. There has been no mention of any real Iowa connection with Grad transfers. If he were pursuing them we would most likely hear about it somewhere (as we did with the sit out transfers). We haven’t.

It’s certainly possible they were pursuing grad transfers and we didn’t know about it, but I’d say fairly unlikely. Maybe we will get involved now and get someone, but again pretty unlikely.

yeah, I think that's fair, I was just trying to figure out how you knew he didn't and I think you're answer is a good one. It likely would leak. Have all the transfers in the portal already signed? Who's in the portal? Is it public? I wasn't trying to be snarky (for once) - I was just curious where your intel came from since I've heard Fran talking about the portal just last week and it sounded like they were contacting people in it. I know we have history and I didn't want to start nothing.

I personally can't say it quite as definitively because I don't know for certain and I try not to be definitive on things I don't know, but at least from an outsider looking in, I'd have to agree with your assessment w/ Fran on the transfers.

 

[NikeHawk21]

yeah, I think that's fair, I was just trying to figure out how you knew he didn't and I think you're answer is a good one. It likely would leak. Have all the transfers in the portal already signed? Who's in the portal? Is it public? I wasn't trying to be snarky (for once) - I was just curious where you intel came from since I've heard Fran talking about the portal just last week and it sounded like they were contacting people in it. I know we have history and I didn't want to start nothing.

I personally can't say it quite as definitively because I don't know for certain and I try not to be definitive on things I don't know, but at least from an outsider looking in, I'd have to agree with your assessment w/ Fran on the transfers.

I’m not sure who’s out there, but I do imagine you’d be a step behind trying to get involved at this point. I do believe it’s public information.

I didn’t take your post as snarky btw.

To be honest I wasn’t a big fan of that interview of Fran you are referencing. He seemed kind of smug and it seemed to me like total window dressing.

 

[PCHawk]

I’m not sure who’s out there, but I do imagine you’d be a step behind trying to get involved at this point. I do believe it’s public information.

I didn’t take your post as snarky btw.

To be honest I wasn’t a big fan of that interview of Fran you are referencing. He seemed kind of smug and it seemed to me like total window dressing.

He would probably have to find someone that was planning on going to a worse program by far for lack of better options. Hell we could really use Dailey back at thos point.

 

[InGoodCo]

I’m not sure who’s out there, but I do imagine you’d be a step behind trying to get involved at this point. I do believe it’s public information.

I didn’t take your post as snarky btw.

To be honest I wasn’t a big fan of that interview of Fran you are referencing. He seemed kind of smug and it seemed to me like total window dressing.

Fran can be smug, but I felt like he was pretty candid in the All Hawkeye interview, specifically the first half of it when he spoke about Patrick's fight with cancer and the efforts him and his family do for cancer research. I didn't find him smug when talking about his coaching his kids - he said it gets used against him on the recruiting trail. I didn't think he was smug when he said he doesn't deal with some AAU handlers. I didn't think he was smug when he said he expects cheaters to be punished. He said they use the portal and that's the way the game is now. He said he wasn't a fan of the rule for grad transfers, but it's the landscape of the game. I think he was pretty straight forward on all the questions honestly. But, again, I don't know for certain.

 

[RobHowe]

According to 247, these are the transfers with immediate eligibility:

LINK