Adam
Well-Known Member
Sure we do. They just don't do it.
Best 3pt shooting team in Fran Era?
- Thread starter NikeHawk21
- Start date
Sure we do. They just don't do it.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Same thing. I should have said "Michigan gets back on defense, we don't"
Adam
Well-Known Member
Right. I will remain hopeful that the kids learned something from being ran out of every B1G gym. Simple effort will remedy the stank of this defense. It wont make it top 10 or anything, but we just need to move past laughable to have a shot at post season play.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Then why practice at all? You can't be good at anything without working on it day after day, and the longer you work at it, the slower the gains come. Thats why so many people give up on diets or getting in shape or becoming better defensive basketball players. The ones who keep pushing through plateaus are the ones who will distance themselves from the pack. And you will never get better if you only improve your strengths. You have to work three times as hard to improve your weaknesses.
We have a local high school girls coach who knows a thing or two about defense. I won't bore you with his accomplishments but you can Google if you choose to do so. Anyway, they start practice a week from Monday. And those girls won't see a ball for at least a week. Don't tell me ignoring something in practice will make you better at it.
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earlhamhawk
Well-Known Member
Just got my 1 month pass to Btn+ Can’t wait 2 see Wieskamp
Did you just say for me not to tell you that ignoring something in practice will make you better at it? Lol ok I definitely wont tell you that.
What university do you or have you ever coached at? You must have been a great coach since you have all this knowledge. I'm glad that we have such a smart poster on this board that.
The game of basketball has changed greatly since Pat Summitt coached. Plus "defense wins championships" is one of the most overused cliches in the history of sports.
trj
Well-Known Member
Valid point about roster construction. My only counter to that is Villanova was 2nd in the nation in 3 pt. attempts with 1158. Now compare that to Iowa's 672, that is nearly 500 more attempts. That's why some of us are pushing Iowa to shoot the 3 more.
Conversely, Villanova allowed their opponents to shoot 31.7% from 3, which was 15th in the country. Iowa allowed their opponent to shoot 37.6%, which was 307th . Just think about it, if Iowa could get that number to drop a couple percentage points that would be the difference between the NIT and a 5 seed in the tournament.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
My main reason is that I probably won't be able to watch those games anyway due to other time commitments.
That's going to be the factor for me too. The production quality of those games on BTN plus is terrible. I've said this before but why can't they just have Dolph and Hansen voice over the video.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
JFC...you're an idiot.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Well since KenPom was invented in 2002 no team has won a National Championship with an Adjusted D ranking lower than 20 out of now 351 teams.
The lowest was 18 (2009 North Carolina)
Many championship teams have been top five in adjusted D
Iowa's 2006 team led the nation in KenPom adjusted D!
JG10Hawk
Well-Known Member
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Defense is sooo 1980s. Nobody plays defense anymore. Look at the NBA. Every team is shooting 3 pt shots and hoping to get a couple of stops in the last couple of minutes. We need moar 3 pt shots!!!!!! This is the most talented roster we've ever had at Iowa. This is the best collection of 3 pt shooters we've ever had at Iowa. We are building a regional dynasty.
That just about covers the mindset of the 4-14 Iowa fan.
JG10Hawk
Well-Known Member
Back to the original question. Yes, I think this team is capable of being the best 3 pt shooting team of the Fran era. I think next year's team has the potential to be better than this year's team. Fredrick is likely to redshirt and he shot 48.3% from 3 during his senior year. Cook will likely be gone and allow Nunge/Kreiner etc to play more minutes and they are more of a 3pt threat than Cook. That could give the team 5 guys playing at the same time that are threats from deep.
Now back to the entertainment of the thread. Let me preface by saying I think we all agree the defense was easily the biggest issue last season. This team was pretty balanced last season efficiency wise on offense. They ranked 67th in 2P % and 59th in 3P %. Attempts wise they were 79th in 2PA and 221st in 3PA. So one could argue chucking leading to long rebounds and fast break points wasn't the major culprit to their crappy defensive efficiency. Was it part of the issue? Definitely at times but probably not the major culprit.
IMO the major culprit lies in taking care of the ball and forcing turnovers, ie the turnover margin. During the 2013-2016 stretch of 3 straight tournament appearances the team was pretty good at both of these.
2013-2014: 89th in TOs (391) and 91st in TOs forced (439). +48
2014-2015: 81st in TOs (377) and 158th in TOs forced (417). +40
2015-2016: 15th in TOs (339) and 133rd in TOs forced (431). +92
2016-2017: 293rd in TOs (472) and 53rd in TOs forced (486). +14
2017:2018: 223rd in TOs (441) and 303rd in TOs forced (365). -76
Now one can argue that shooting 3s can lead to fastbreak opportunities for the opponent which isn't a TO. Can one say that the fast break opportunities for the opponent lead to less opportunities to force a turnover? Probably but I'm not sure, there tends to be TOs by the team breaking at times. I have no clue where to find the percentages on TOs during a fastbreak vs during half court. Obviously one can also say that the increased fast break opportunities leads to more possessions in a game and more opportunities to force turnovers but also more opportunities to turn the ball over. Again percentage wise no clue.
The turnover margin is huge. Look at the best team during the Fran era vs last year's team +92 vs -76. That's a 168 possession swing. That's a lot of opportunities to score that the opponent doesn't get. Which is why I think this was the biggest issue. Last year's team wasn't as good at taking care of the ball and also forcing turnovers compared to the better Fran teams. Halfcourt and transition defense needs to improve. Take care of the ball limiting fast break opportunities and be in position to stop/make a play on defense.
Now back to the entertainment of the thread. Let me preface by saying I think we all agree the defense was easily the biggest issue last season. This team was pretty balanced last season efficiency wise on offense. They ranked 67th in 2P % and 59th in 3P %. Attempts wise they were 79th in 2PA and 221st in 3PA. So one could argue chucking leading to long rebounds and fast break points wasn't the major culprit to their crappy defensive efficiency. Was it part of the issue? Definitely at times but probably not the major culprit.
IMO the major culprit lies in taking care of the ball and forcing turnovers, ie the turnover margin. During the 2013-2016 stretch of 3 straight tournament appearances the team was pretty good at both of these.
2013-2014: 89th in TOs (391) and 91st in TOs forced (439). +48
2014-2015: 81st in TOs (377) and 158th in TOs forced (417). +40
2015-2016: 15th in TOs (339) and 133rd in TOs forced (431). +92
2016-2017: 293rd in TOs (472) and 53rd in TOs forced (486). +14
2017:2018: 223rd in TOs (441) and 303rd in TOs forced (365). -76
Now one can argue that shooting 3s can lead to fastbreak opportunities for the opponent which isn't a TO. Can one say that the fast break opportunities for the opponent lead to less opportunities to force a turnover? Probably but I'm not sure, there tends to be TOs by the team breaking at times. I have no clue where to find the percentages on TOs during a fastbreak vs during half court. Obviously one can also say that the increased fast break opportunities leads to more possessions in a game and more opportunities to force turnovers but also more opportunities to turn the ball over. Again percentage wise no clue.
The turnover margin is huge. Look at the best team during the Fran era vs last year's team +92 vs -76. That's a 168 possession swing. That's a lot of opportunities to score that the opponent doesn't get. Which is why I think this was the biggest issue. Last year's team wasn't as good at taking care of the ball and also forcing turnovers compared to the better Fran teams. Halfcourt and transition defense needs to improve. Take care of the ball limiting fast break opportunities and be in position to stop/make a play on defense.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Jermaine Wallace can open his eyes any time now.Let's leave that Iowa team out of this, that one still hurts..
Between his shooting angle and Haluska's hand in his face there is no way he could have seen the basket he was shooting at.
I once saw Jeff Malone of the (then) Washington Bullets beat the Detroit Pistons with a similiar shot. It was a popular video bite through most of the eighties and the nineties.
But that was a regular season NBA game. NW State knocked us out of the NCAA's and put Alford on notice from the GarBar.
Fortunately for us, Fran is not a 4-14 Iowa fan. It's fair not to give him the benefit of the doubt after last season, especially with no highly visible changes to anyone outside the carver practice facilities. But there can be significant improvements on both sides of the ball based on player additions and development, and I hope they do happen. Because quite honestly, we need to be better on both offense and defense. We can't go 5-8 minutes without scoring just like we can't give up baskets on 5 straight possessions. My thoughts are, if we can't play adequate defense shooting the ball the same amount that we did last year, we'll be in the same boat record wise. Fortunately, there are some signs that we could be an okay team this year. Signs like taking the national runner-up team team to overtime in our last game of the season.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Great post.
The worst thing we did offensively last year that also hurt our defense was turn the ball over. A live ball turnover often ends with a dunk or an easy shot coming back the other way.
I don’t think anyone is advising Iowa to be Grinell college and just start chucking as fast as possible, but I do think with the roster we have in place this year we will probably attempt and make more threes. The options are there. We have 4 players who have shot over 38% from 3 in a college season, and are adding Joe Weiskamp who I have no doubt can accomplish that as well.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Going into the season last year I started a thread about how Iowa could be a lethal team playing inside out. The horses were there inside and we did have some quality 3pt threats. Unfortunately that didn’t come to fruition, primarily because Baer lost his shooting touch, and Fran tried to play Wagner and Nunge at the 3. We also struggled at feeding the post as PC has mentioned. Instead of having 3 or 4 perimeter threats at most times we had two maybe three, and our spacing was shot.
Fast forward to this year and I think we are in even better position to be a very strong inside-out team. Both Garza and Cook have shown the ability to be dominant inside at times, and they will have times where they have a mismatch down there. With Bohannon, Moss, Weiskamp, and Dailey roaming the wings (hopefully Baer can find his stroke again), there should be at least 3 shooters out there at a time, and Garza has also shown the ability to step out there and hit a 3. The last piece of this would be Cook and Garza showing the ability to kick it out if the defense collapses, as lightning mentioned Cook hasn’t really shown the ability to do that yet.
I just imagine a group on the floor of say Bo, Moss, Weiskamp, Nunge, and either Cook or Garza down low. 4 guys spreading the floor out to the 3pt line giving one of our bigs ample room to work inside. Could be very tough to defend.
Fast forward to this year and I think we are in even better position to be a very strong inside-out team. Both Garza and Cook have shown the ability to be dominant inside at times, and they will have times where they have a mismatch down there. With Bohannon, Moss, Weiskamp, and Dailey roaming the wings (hopefully Baer can find his stroke again), there should be at least 3 shooters out there at a time, and Garza has also shown the ability to step out there and hit a 3. The last piece of this would be Cook and Garza showing the ability to kick it out if the defense collapses, as lightning mentioned Cook hasn’t really shown the ability to do that yet.
I just imagine a group on the floor of say Bo, Moss, Weiskamp, Nunge, and either Cook or Garza down low. 4 guys spreading the floor out to the 3pt line giving one of our bigs ample room to work inside. Could be very tough to defend.
That's the dream. We wouldn't lose much on substitution either as Connor will likely hit somewhere around 37-40% too. He shot 36% his junior year and 42% his senior year. With a full year under his belt practicing from the college line, he should be a threat. Dailey and Baer subbing in for Moss and Wieskamp can also shoot. It's possible this is the year Kriener extends his game beyond the arc too. Cook and Pemsl are really the only two players that would make me cringe if they launched from deep.
