storminspank
Justin VanLaere
YOU'RE the one claiming Babb is superior to Gatens, so go ahead and prove it.
A little appreciation for Gatens
- Thread starter Carrollhawk16
- Start date
Sure smoot. Sorry I was so wrong about you.
The problem with sarcasm is that it makes fun at the other side without actually making a logical argument. I suppose when you are void of fact and make assumptions regarding my life and past experiences, it's all that will do.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Did you even read the SI article? It was all about what the Top 100 recruits were doing, specifically transferring, decommitting, etc..
It's isn't a reflection or study on Iowa, it's a study on college basketball.
One where the majority of college basketball players bail. Gatens did not. He had several opportunities and good reasons to, but did not. That's praise-worthy. To think otherwise is a bit silly.
I said they are very similar offensive players with Babb being a slightly more athletic defender. You were the one that scoffed at that. Babb sat out last season, so I'll compare both players as soph's.
Points per shot
Babb: 1.20
Gatens: 1.16
Points per 40
Babb: 12.5
Gatens: 13.5
3pt %
Babb: 37.3
Gatens: 32.8
Assist to turnover ratio
Babb: 2.3
Gatens: 1.2
Rebounds per game
Babb: 3.19
Gatens: 4.3
Block Pct
Babb: 1.0
Gatens: .02
As you can see from the stats, very similar players. This should give you an idea of Gatens' value. Babb might be only the 4th best transfer ISU brought in (White, Clyburn, Allen all better value).
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I'm assuming you're a Cubs fan to have expectations this low? Kidding aside, Gatens wouldn't be a focal point on offense for any major program with a pulse like he is at Iowa. He had no reason to leave. If he was as talented as Haluska or Brunner or Basabe and had a potential career in basketball professionally I could understand why he may leave. His family is established with the university, he gets a lot of playing time here and he has a lot of friends in the area. I'm not sure what situation he could go to and be better off. I'd rather start for a poor team than hand towels and water bottles to your superior teamates on a good team.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
You cherry-picked one season on the stats... why not average their entire career for a better comparison? I'll use averages, not totals, as to keep it fair instead of taking just one season into consideration
Points per shot
Gatens - 1.23
Babb - 1.06
Points per game
Gatens - 11.86 pts per game
Babb -6.0 pts per game
Matt Gatens has averaged double-digit scoring in all three of his years at Iowa, Chris Babb has yet to do it once.
Avg points per season
Gatens - 368 avg pts per year
Babb - 189 avg pts per year
Rebounds per game
Gatens - 3.55 boards per game
Babb - 2.13 boards per game
3 Pt percentage
Gatens - .350%
Babb - .367%
3 Pt FG made per year
Gatens - 54.7 3PM per year
Babb - 45.5 3PM per year
Steals (you left this out after claiming Babb was a better defender)
Gatens - 1.0 steals per game
Babb - .49 steals per game
Steals per season
Gatens - 31.0 steals per season
Babb - 15.5 steals per season
Blocks per game (not sure why we are comparing blocks for a couple shooting guards)
Gatens - .172 blocks per game (5.3 per season)
Babb - .175 blocks per game (5.5 per season)
Assists per game
Gatens -2.46 assists per game
Babb - 1.37 assists per game
Assist to TO ratio
Gatens -1.29 A/TO ratio
Babb -1.87 A/TO ratio
FT%
Gatens -86.7%
Babb - 75.7%
Also, note that Matt has MADE more FTs in any given season than Babb has ever SHOT.
All conference teams -
Gatens - 1
Babb - 0
All freshman teams -
Gatens - 1
Babb - 0
Look at their career averages and it's not even close. You can't just cherry-pick one season to thwart the facts.
Points per shot
Gatens - 1.23
Babb - 1.06
Points per game
Gatens - 11.86 pts per game
Babb -6.0 pts per game
Matt Gatens has averaged double-digit scoring in all three of his years at Iowa, Chris Babb has yet to do it once.
Avg points per season
Gatens - 368 avg pts per year
Babb - 189 avg pts per year
Rebounds per game
Gatens - 3.55 boards per game
Babb - 2.13 boards per game
3 Pt percentage
Gatens - .350%
Babb - .367%
3 Pt FG made per year
Gatens - 54.7 3PM per year
Babb - 45.5 3PM per year
Steals (you left this out after claiming Babb was a better defender)
Gatens - 1.0 steals per game
Babb - .49 steals per game
Steals per season
Gatens - 31.0 steals per season
Babb - 15.5 steals per season
Blocks per game (not sure why we are comparing blocks for a couple shooting guards)
Gatens - .172 blocks per game (5.3 per season)
Babb - .175 blocks per game (5.5 per season)
Assists per game
Gatens -2.46 assists per game
Babb - 1.37 assists per game
Assist to TO ratio
Gatens -1.29 A/TO ratio
Babb -1.87 A/TO ratio
FT%
Gatens -86.7%
Babb - 75.7%
Also, note that Matt has MADE more FTs in any given season than Babb has ever SHOT.
All conference teams -
Gatens - 1
Babb - 0
All freshman teams -
Gatens - 1
Babb - 0
Look at their career averages and it's not even close. You can't just cherry-pick one season to thwart the facts.
Your logic makes about as much sense as predicting JaJuan Johnson's junior year stats by averaging in his lackluster freshman year performance in which he scored 5 ppg with his much improved sophomore year.
Why in the hell would you average Babb's freshman year into the equation when he was significantly improved his sophomore year? Aren't we trying to compare the players as they are now? Babb was a much different player as a soph than he was in year one so I'm not sure what you are trying to prove. My methodolgy at least was somewhat statisically sound for the purpose of comparing the two now. I suppose I could have compared both players last full seasons (Babb '09-10 to Gatens '10-11), but that wouldn't have made a large difference in the outcome.
Finally, why bother using season totals as an indicator like you did with total points, steals, etc...? Gatens' played more minutes so he should have higher totals. Stick Lebron out there for 5 minutes and he won't lead the league in scoring. You should be looking at totals per minute played for a real indication.
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greghammel
Well-Known Member
Anyone who is stating that Babb has been a better player than Gatens is just a troll or hater. It is just FLAT OUT DUMB. No sense even paying attention to any more of this thread.
Compare College Basketball Players - StatSheet.com
If you look at their production ratios and per minute averages, you'd comprehend they are essentially the same player. Sorry if that's beyond your capability and you'd rather debate in the form of calling a post dumb rather than offering evidence.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
You are comparing one season for one player against a random single single of another. I took their body of work. If you are talking about how good the players are at this current point and time, that's called an OPINION because there aren't any current stats to back it up. If your opinion is that Babb is better than Gatens, then you'll likely be in the minority of those that regularly watched the two when they both played in the Big Ten.
In their careers, thus far, Babb has been a role player and Gatens has been a significant contributor.
And it's obvious that Babb will continue to be a role player at ISU with guys like White, Christopherson, and Allen around. Gatens will be a focal point for Iowa.
Gatens is the better player.
In Babb's last season he had an offensive rating of 114. Gatens' highest offensive rating was his freshman year when he had 113.
Babb had a true shooting percentage of 54.7 as a sophomore. Gatens has had (57.9, 50.7, 53.7) in his three seasons.
Babb had an A/T ratio of 2.3. Gatens 3 years were (1.3, 1.2, 1.4)
Babb had more rebounds and blocks per attempt while Gatens had more steals per attempt.
Hard to make an argument that Gatens was a better player. He had more total points as Stormin pointed out which is a bogus stat because it doesn't take into account minutes played or shot attempts.
Babb had a true shooting percentage of 54.7 as a sophomore. Gatens has had (57.9, 50.7, 53.7) in his three seasons.
Babb had an A/T ratio of 2.3. Gatens 3 years were (1.3, 1.2, 1.4)
Babb had more rebounds and blocks per attempt while Gatens had more steals per attempt.
Hard to make an argument that Gatens was a better player. He had more total points as Stormin pointed out which is a bogus stat because it doesn't take into account minutes played or shot attempts.
You are just being completely irrational. There is no reason to factor in Babb's freshman year as he played sparingly and wasn't very good. If the argument is who has had a better total career thus far I'd agree with Gatens. That's not the discussion. We are debating how the players compare now so using recent data is much more realistic than the real cherry picking you are doing by lumping in data from his first year on the team. I agree, Babb sucked as a freshman, but that's completely irrelevant.
Like I said, you wouldn't factor in JaJuan Johnson's freshman year with his soph year to predict his Junior year. That would be moronic. You would use the more recent one as he had obviously developed. It's not opinion, it's statistics 101 and you could use a course.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
You compared their sophomore years.
Gatens was an All-Big Ten player, Babbs wasn't. There you go.
How are you going to compare them currently? Babb hasn't played an NCAA game in over a year and half. But still with that in mind, you think he has improved so much since his sophomore year that he's better than Gatens. Seems pretty silly.
Gatens was an All-Big Ten player, Babbs wasn't. There you go.
How are you going to compare them currently? Babb hasn't played an NCAA game in over a year and half. But still with that in mind, you think he has improved so much since his sophomore year that he's better than Gatens. Seems pretty silly.
All-Conference awards are based primarily on stat totals and reputation as opposed to production stats. That's a very subjective argument on your part. Gatens was the focal point of the offense (09-10) while Babb had volume shooter Talor Battle consuming 40% of the offense. When was Gatens on the All-Big 10 Team anyway? I'm fairly certain he was only honorable mention despite being the main cog in our wheel.
Where did I say i'm assuming Babb has improved so much since his soph year? I'm using his sophomore year as the benchmark.
Your arguments are like attempting to say Hawaii, Texas Tech and Cincy usually produce the best quarterbacks because they have a ton of yards and touchdowns. That's why you look at production per minute stats and efficiency ratios.
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MisterLucky
Well-Known Member
I certainly appreciate Matt's efforts to help return the Iowa program to respectability much more than I appreciate Smoot's negative posts on this board.
Maybe I need more of what you and the cat in your avatar are having. Then maybe I will realize how great Gatens is, how great Cartwright is, how great Basabe is, and ignore the 11-20 record we had last season.
Nah, I guess I prefer reality.
MisterLucky
Well-Known Member
That's sad for you. My suggestion is that you start following the Duke program where every player is an All-American and won't offend your demand for perfection. Most of the rest of us appreciate the efforts given by the players on the team and Gatens, in particular, who I am sure envisioned something quite different from his career here at Iowa but stayed committed for the long run.
