A little appreciation for Gatens

[greghammel]

If a rookie in the NBA gets a rebound and put back 1 minute into his career and never sees the court again. Would you say he is the all-time greatest NBA player because his rebounds and points per MINUTE???
Come back when Babb starts... come back when Babb plays meaningful conference games. We just have such limited junk from Babb to compare it to that it is easier to compare him to an incoming freshman.

You have to admit you are simply being a jerk comparing Babb to a well established Gatens. I mean seriously? Babb? Yeah... he is just like Gatens!

 

[smoot27]

That's sad for you. My suggestion is that you start following the Duke program where every player is an All-American and won't offend your demand for perfection. Most of the rest of us appreciate the efforts given by the players on the team and Gatens, in particular, who I am sure envisioned something quite different from his career here at Iowa but stayed committed for the long run.

Good thing Tom Brands and the Iowa wrestling team don't share your appreciation for mediocrity.

Out of all the teams I follow both college (Iowa) and professionally, this seems to be the only forum where fans get offended when people assess the reality of the players' ability. Being a fan does not mean you have to be a homer.

Your logic: I'm really glad Randy Reiners is on the team and I appreciate his efforts to make the Iowa football team good again.

My logic: We really need a more talented quarterback if we want to win

I'll take my point of view you can keep yours. Ignorance might be bliss, but I'd prefer to avoid it. I'm not a fairweather fan nor do I need to find a better team. I just want my team to get better players and therefore get better as a team.

 

[smoot27]

If a rookie in the NBA gets a rebound and put back 1 minute into his career and never sees the court again. Would you say he is the all-time greatest NBA player because his rebounds and points per MINUTE???
Come back when Babb starts... come back when Babb plays meaningful conference games. We just have such limited junk from Babb to compare it to that it is easier to compare him to an incoming freshman.

You have to admit you are simply being a jerk comparing Babb to a well established Gatens. I mean seriously? Babb? Yeah... he is just like Gatens!

Yeah, because an NBA rookie averaging 1 minute is very comparable to a college player averaging 29 minutes a game.

 

[greghammel]

How about this... Gatens is an in-state product who has done nothing but make every Hawkeye fan very proud. For you to come into a thread titled "A little appreciation for Matt Gatens" and compare him to a Chris Babb... is disrespectful and punkish. Chris Babb has done what comparatively? VERY LITTLE.

I think most people would just have a bit more respect.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I think I was the first one who made the babb- gatens comparison in another thread but it is true. They are extremely similar players. Both guys are quality b10 level guards, but neither is an elite player.

 

[smoot27]

How about this... Gatens is an in-state product who has done nothing but make every Hawkeye fan very proud. For you to come into a thread titled "A little appreciation for Matt Gatens" and compare him to a Chris Babb... is disrespectful and punkish. Chris Babb has done what comparatively? VERY LITTLE.

I think most people would just have a bit more respect.

In terms of ability, Gatens is very similar to Babb. That has been proven by their playing time and efficiency. This doesn't mean I'm comparing the two as people or saying Babb has a better personality than Gatens. Gatens is a role player on a good team as is Babb. Just because we have sucked the last three years and Gatens has taken on a larger than desirable role in the offense, doesn't make him any better as a player in terms of talent.

 

[smoot27]

I think I was the first one who made the babb- gatens comparison in another thread but it is true. They are extremely similar players. Both guys are quality b10 level guards, but neither is an elite player.

Thanks for providing a little common sense to the discussion.

 

[sportstalent]

I think I was the first one who made the babb- gatens comparison in another thread but it is true. They are extremely similar players. Both guys are quality b10 level guards, but neither is an elite player.

Babb is a player that transferred from a bad team, Gatens did not.
Babb has not proven that he can be a reliable scorer in his career, thus not getting as many shots. PSU was a better team when the guards around Battle did something, more often than not Babb was invisible.
Gatens has been a contributor and a good player, while not elite, it is easy to take out a player when there is nobody around him.
It would be interesting to see Gatens play beside a player like Battle and see what kind of numbers he could put up. Does Gatens have holes in his game, yeah, but he is clearly better than Babb. Babb has never been the focal point of anything, Gatens has been the focal point or one of the top two options in his whole career.
If Babb comes in and tears it up, which I highly doubt then we can further have this discussion. Babb has proven he can be an okay role player, not a featured player.
I am by no means ever going to say Gatens in an elite player, but he will show how good he is this year if he stays healthy. The players surrounding Matt will be better and his productivity will improve as he takes pressure off of himself to have to make every shot. The last two seasons Matt has rushed shots and forced things that he didn't have too. With everyone around him getting better and Iowa having options off of their bench who can shoot, it wouldn't surprise me to see Gatens be an All-Conference performer.
Yes, we should admire a player that has had the career Matt has with all of the turmoil, too bad he won't be around long enough to see Iowa back in the NCAA tournament. The sad thing is Gatens has been the only reliable person in Iowa basketball in recent memory, maybe him being around as long as he has and not bailing allows more criticism to go his way. How many people have left that could have helped and how many have stayed? Critique him how you want, but he has had little help in his career, until last year, but he was not right after he got hurt, his stats show that.

 

[hawkeyemark]

Babb is a player that transferred from a bad team, Gatens did not.
Babb has not proven that he can be a reliable scorer in his career, thus not getting as many shots. PSU was a better team when the guards around Battle did something, more often than not Babb was invisible.
Gatens has been a contributor and a good player, while not elite, it is easy to take out a player when there is nobody around him.
It would be interesting to see Gatens play beside a player like Battle and see what kind of numbers he could put up. Does Gatens have holes in his game, yeah, but he is clearly better than Babb. Babb has never been the focal point of anything, Gatens has been the focal point or one of the top two options in his whole career.
If Babb comes in and tears it up, which I highly doubt then we can further have this discussion. Babb has proven he can be an okay role player, not a featured player.
I am by no means ever going to say Gatens in an elite player, but he will show how good he is this year if he stays healthy. The players surrounding Matt will be better and his productivity will improve as he takes pressure off of himself to have to make every shot. The last two seasons Matt has rushed shots and forced things that he didn't have too. With everyone around him getting better and Iowa having options off of their bench who can shoot, it wouldn't surprise me to see Gatens be an All-Conference performer.
Yes, we should admire a player that has had the career Matt has with all of the turmoil, too bad he won't be around long enough to see Iowa back in the NCAA tournament.

Matt Gatens would have had a really good career on a more talented team where he could play a complimentary role. He can do more of that this year with us having more options on the court but Iowa unfortunately really won't have that kind of team until after Matt leaves. People sometimes forget the good defense Matt plays- he won the team award for Best Defensive Player last season.

 

[sioux34]

The problem with sarcasm is that it makes fun at the other side without actually making a logical argument. I suppose when you are void of fact and make assumptions regarding my life and past experiences, it's all that will do.

I am one of three children in my family that played hoops on a full college scholarship. My father played at Iowa. One of my siblings was a very successful college basketball coach at the D1 level. I think it is fair to say I know more about the demands placed on a college basketball player than you do Mr. DIII wrestler.

 

[greghammel]

You are comparing a player who has led his team in scoring over the last 3 years vs a kid who has done very, very little.

I understand the hype a team has for some player who has yet played for them... but to expect Babb to be equal to Gatens is expecting a lot out of him. Not saying it isn't possible, but I doubt Babb will ever reach the level Gatens has already performed at.

Clearly this is just a small group of people being idiots or haters... perhaps a combination of both?

Is Babb going to start for Iowa State this year? I am looking forward to seeing if he outplays Gatens this year. Gatens has averaged double digits points in all three seasons... if Babb averaged double digit this year, it will be the first time he has ever done it, and be a surprise. Gatens is expected to average dang near 20 and it will be a shock if he doesn't average double digits. BIG DIFFERENCE

 

[greghammel]

The last time Babb played at Carver he went 0-6 with ZERO pts, 1 assist and no rebounds in a loss to the Hawkeyes. Gatens hit a couple 3 pt shots and scored 14, had 4 assists, and 4 rebounds. This was a couple years ago... and I guess you think he has improved a lot more than Gatens has?

 

[CyChamp]

You are comparing a player who has led his team in scoring over the last 3 years vs a kid who has done very, very little.

I understand the hype a team has for some player who has yet played for them... but to expect Babb to be equal to Gatens is expecting a lot out of him. Not saying it isn't possible, but I doubt Babb will ever reach the level Gatens has already performed at.

Clearly this is just a small group of people being idiots or haters... perhaps a combination of both?

Is Babb going to start for Iowa State this year? I am looking forward to seeing if he outplays Gatens this year. Gatens has averaged double digits points in all three seasons... if Babb averaged double digit this year, it will be the first time he has ever done it, and be a surprise. Gatens is expected to average dang near 20 and it will be a shock if he doesn't average double digits. BIG DIFFERENCE

Babb will probably not start this year. With lots of guards (Christopherson, Allen, McGee, Sledge) battling for minutes, Babb is not likely to average more than 6-8 PPG, IMO.

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

You are comparing a player who has led his team in scoring over the last 3 years vs a kid who has done very, very little.

I understand the hype a team has for some player who has yet played for them... but to expect Babb to be equal to Gatens is expecting a lot out of him. Not saying it isn't possible, but I doubt Babb will ever reach the level Gatens has already performed at.

Clearly this is just a small group of people being idiots or haters... perhaps a combination of both?

Is Babb going to start for Iowa State this year? I am looking forward to seeing if he outplays Gatens this year. Gatens has averaged double digits points in all three seasons... if Babb averaged double digit this year, it will be the first time he has ever done it, and be a surprise. Gatens is expected to average dang near 20 and it will be a shock if he doesn't average double digits. BIG DIFFERENCE

Who in the world expects Gatens to average anywhere near 20 points next season? I would be thrilled if he averaged 15 points a game. Gatens scoring is more reflective of the fact that he has played on a team with very few scoring options his whole career. Babb played next to a truly elite B10 guard in Taylor Battle. Battle was also third in the B10 in usage rate during Babb's last season at Penn St while Aaron Fuller led Iowa but was only 15th in the B10. Neither Babb nor Gatens are guys who can really score on their own, but they both can be solid players. I don't see how saying they are similar players is an insult to Gatens at all.

Also while looking up usage rates for the Big Ten in the 2009-10 season, Korie Luscious, Chris Babb and Chris Allen are ranked 45th, 46th and 47th, which is a little weird.

 

[sportstalent]

Babb played next to a truly elite B10 guard in Taylor Battle.

Battle was good player, I am still not convinced he was an elite player. That said, it would be nice to see Matt play with a player that can drive and shoot outside equally. Talor Battle was most effective when his teammates actually hit shots, look at his biggest games and their records in those games, pretty sure it isn't a winning record. Their best season prior to last year was when he had the big guys down low and they did so well in the NIT. Look at this year, when Battle went for less than 20 and one or more of his teammates went for 10+ or 15+ they were very successful. There was a four game stretch when Battle scored over 30 pts. and PSU went 1-3 an elite player goes big and his team wins. Babb was not a player that could contribute night in and night out for PSU, not because he played with Battle, it actually should have freed him up for better shots.
I do think Gatens is a better player, he did come in as a freshman and do good things, that continued throug his sophomore season. Last season he was injured and never really hit his stride. He was up and down when he hadn't been in his career. I think he missed more free throws last year than his first two years combined, or at least it seemed like it.
Also, I am not here to rip Babb either he is not a bad player, but I don't feel like he is on the same level as Gatens, he hasn't shown he is in either of his two seasons. Playing beside Battle should have helped him, not limit him and if it did limit him, then that is on him or the coach.

 

[smoot27]

I am one of three children in my family that played hoops on a full college scholarship. My father played at Iowa. One of my siblings was a very successful college basketball coach at the D1 level. I think it is fair to say I know more about the demands placed on a college basketball player than you do Mr. DIII wrestler.

You're an absolute fool if you think basketball at any level is more demanding than wrestling. Rip on d3 all you want, but I'm sure I had a lot more success at wartburg winning than you ever have. I'm sure our practices were worse than anything you've ever done.

 

[sioux34]

I think that most of our fellow posters will agree that one of us is a fool.

 

[smoot27]

I'm done with the back and forth personal attacks anyway.

 

[sioux34]

Are you talking about your personal attack on Gatens?

 

[JHHawk]

The ''non-homer'' in this thread is bending over backward to denigrate Iowa players.

Cartwright ripped it up the second half of the Big Ten season last year, leaving Shon Morris and other BTN analysts to call him one of the better pgs in the country in the second half of the season. I defy Smoot to name more than 5 other pgs in the league better,which is where he would be if he was as ''average'' as he claims. There is Jordan Taylor,the clear leader, then who? The kid at OSU,ok,maybe. Then who? NW,Ill,Mich,MSU,Minny,and Neb all have new pgs this year. That leaves LewJack at PU,the kid at IU,Frazier at PSU, and Cartwright....I take Cartwright over them all,cept maybe LewJack...which leaves him 3rd or 4th in the league,at worst.