You could be right nate.
2019 Recruiting: Big Board
- Thread starter NikeHawk21
- Start date
BigD
Well-Known Member
Is that what it has come too for Iowa fans? Not making the tourney but how close we got to making it. There are no words that can express how I feel about that frame of mind. That’s worse than mediocrity and sinks into loser ville.
Please tell me Steve you are not serious??? I know our expectations keep dropping as Iowa fans each year that goes bye but have we come to this?
lightning1
Well-Known Member
Gutless Gary has completely brainwashed this once proud fan base. We should change our name to The University of Iowa Participation Trophies. It's a far more fitting representation.
Every fan base has fans with their own opinion. Just because one fan thinks a certain way, it doesn't mean you can just lump the entire fan base into the same line of thinking and say "we".
That said, you took his post out of context anyway.
BigD
Well-Known Member
Presidential “WRONG”
“You're being negative again but in this case I can't say I totally disagree with you. Depends, I guess, on if we narrowly miss the dance or have another horrible season. “
This is clearly indicating that if Fran has another terrible season then it’s time for him to go, BUT if we have an ok season and just miss the tournament then that is justification for keeping Fran with the hopes of next year being better.
By the way in my original post I stated that in a questioning tone toward Steve offering him an opportunity for clarification on his statement. I haven’t had issue with any of his posts before and wanted to give him a chance to response.
Not sure what to make of the fan base. There’s very little entertainment value in Iowa so just going to a football game or basketball game seems to appease the fan base regardless of whether it’s a 6-6 season or 7-5 season. The basketball side of things seems to bring in a little more as far as expectations, but as we saw under Lickliter the fans just lose interest and stop attending the games regardless of how bad things get. Though it’s nice to get that sixty million a year from the Big Ten Network it’s seems to have bread a spirit of indifference with the powers that be at the U of I.
Having lived in SEC country those people down there have expectations and don’t just cower away into a dark corner until changes are made and then comeback back out when they do improve. They will protest and call for heads to roll. They take it very serious.
The folks at Iowa are very prudish it appears and winning is always secondary to revenue. Having a business background I have to admit from a professional perspective that is understandable. From a sports enthusiast point of view it makes me nauseous.
Speaking for myself, I would hate being a fan of a team like Alabama where it's excruciating to lose one single game to the point where your season is over. Then when you win, you don't feel joy, you feel relief. It would be awesome for a couple seasons. Then it would suck the fun out of it for me.
As far as these crazy expectations SEC fans have. How's that working out for them? Other than Alabama since Saban, most other SEC schools have up and down seasons just like Iowa. I just don't get the logic that fans need to flip shit and demand heads roll after bad seasons. I've got my own life to worry about. I'll always make the time to watch the games. But if they suck, I've got other things to think/worry about. Some people say that makes me a shitty fan. I say it means I have a life.
Also the reason I said you took it out of context is I'm pretty sure he was responding to someone who said he should for sure be gone if we missed the dance next year. All he did was lay out a scenario where the decision wasn't cut and dry. And he's right. Fans want to fire a guy based on past results. It's an ADs job to make a decision based on what he thinks future results would be.
To make an over the top example. If he missed the tourney, then brought in a class that made us pre season #1, you would be an idiot to fire the guy. He deserves to be fired based on the past 3 seasons. But it would be stupid to do it. The scenario Steve laid out was a couple steps below that . But Fran would have signed maybe the highest rated class ever, right after bringing in one of the best Iowa high school players ever. If he has another terrible season, he should go reguardless. But if we barely miss the dance, then sign that class, it's far from a clear cut decision. That's what he was saying.... I think.
To make an over the top example. If he missed the tourney, then brought in a class that made us pre season #1, you would be an idiot to fire the guy. He deserves to be fired based on the past 3 seasons. But it would be stupid to do it. The scenario Steve laid out was a couple steps below that . But Fran would have signed maybe the highest rated class ever, right after bringing in one of the best Iowa high school players ever. If he has another terrible season, he should go reguardless. But if we barely miss the dance, then sign that class, it's far from a clear cut decision. That's what he was saying.... I think.
D
DDThompson
Guest
I think he should be fired if there is no MM trip. His Iowa resume is in The Alford Zone Minus BTT championship.
It doesn’t matter anyway. The buyout is too big. He won’t be fired.
It doesn’t matter anyway. The buyout is too big. He won’t be fired.
BigD
Well-Known Member
I agree.
The buyout itself is grounds in and of itself why Barta should be fired.
I am hoping Fran will get the team to bounce back from this past season. Cook’s return will be key to the likely hood if that will happen. If Cook leaves then there is a good chance that we will be just as bad this upcoming season if not worse. Worse? How can that be possible? Our offensive output was a bright spot of the team and if Cook leaves that’s likely going to take a hit.
It will be interesting to see if the defense improves. That is an absolute must.
BigD
Well-Known Member
I think it’s fair to say that most Iowa fans want to see improvement. If Cook returns I definstely see that as a possibility. If Cook leaves then all bets are off.
I get what Steve might have been saying so that is why I left it open for him to give some clarification. I would find it difficult to think that any of us would be happy with almost making the tourney. When you look at what Mr. Davis was able to do that seems hard to believe we would fall so far off the wagon and get to this point.
There is a huge window between being happy and not demanding to fire everyone.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
Yeah, PC said it right. If we narrowly miss the dance next season then I'm not happy about it but I don't think you fire Fran, particularly if he lands a great recruit other than Patrick. I do get that it would be three years then without making the dance which is a fireable offense for some here but if it seems Fran is legitimately building up for a run to finish top 4 in the B1G for awhile and make the dance a few years at least I wouldn't fire him.
BigD
Well-Known Member
That’s fair. Just curious is there one particular potential future recruit that you are thinking about that would fall into the “great recruit” category?
BigD
Well-Known Member
Are you happy with 7-5 in football? Are you happy with tied for third or fourth place and never any better than that with Fran?
I would hope with most fans the answer would be no. If the answer is no, then what other options do you have then to let Fran go.
Please don’t everyone remind me of the buyout...............grrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!
Happy? No. Do I think Iowa has a decent shot to be much better? No. Everyone always says mockingly "we're just little ol Iowa ". But truth is, that's all we are. We have s slightly better than a snowballs chance in hell to find the right coach that makes us significantly better. Between me understanding that fact, plus the fact that I can't do a thing about it anyway, I don't freak out over it.
SteveGarvey1
Well-Known Member
Probably Carton or maybe an early commitment from Foster. Since Terry's gone up to #114 or so on one of the recruiting sites, not sure if getting him would be enough of a wow factor there.
I'm not that overly optimistic any of these will happen.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Wisconsin has averaged over 9.5 wins per year for the last 20 years over the span of 4 different head coaches. It’s not the coach, it starts with the athletic department demanding success which leads to and goes with a fan base that demands success.
What can you do as a fan? Probably not much. There is little for entertainment options in Iowa so Kinnick will likely continue to have strong attendance and Barta will be happy even without you I agree.
But make no mistake about it, if fans stopped showing up and supporting the athletic department things would change just as they would if we got an AD who cared about winning. There are many in our fan base who are simple okay with 7 or 8 wins and don’t want anything more.
Do you ever notice that when Kirk’s seat starts getting the warmest Iowa somehow has a great year?.... funny how that goes when a coach starts feeling pressure to perform.... sink or swim.
Winning isn't as easy as just "wanting to win". For every Wisconsin , there are way more other programs who want to win just as bad but can't get it done. It's like people think if we had an AD who cared, there would be 100% chance of being a blue blood.
And Kirk does win when the pressure is on. I'm pretty sure that is dumb luck tho. If not, why wouldn't he just do the same thing every year that he does when he's on the hot seat? He's just too lazy? I don't buy that. Also I've never really seen anything different during those years other than maybe naming Beathard the starter.
Largely echoing PCHawk's thoughts here, but the demanding fan-base might evoke change, but there is no guarantee for the better. I am sure those demanding fan-bases of which you speak lead to more coach turnover, but I am highly skeptical that they lead to greater results. If I had way more time on my hands, I would love to go back and look at P5 coach firings and compare the years before and after the change. My guess is that you would find very little evidence that making changes (especially frequent changes) leads to improvement.
I am not saying that you should avoid change on principle. But any change you make should be backed by convincing evidence that the move will lead to positive future effects. I feel like many fans want change as their means of extracting a pound of flesh from the current coach who they feel has wronged them for a bad season, and they are giving very little rational thought to whether a change will actually yield positive results in the future.
And lastly, I don't think there are ANY fans who don't want more than 7 or 8 wins (obviously we are speaking FB here). All fans want more, it is just a matter of priorities. I want more, but not to the extent that I am going to let an 8-win season from a sports team I have little to no control over crush my sense of self-worth or drag me into a consistently negative outlook, which would completely ruin my enjoyment of following said team. Instead, I am going to hope for the best (even against available evidence at times), because that makes it fun for me, and entertainment is the only reason I am invested in this at all.
Agreed. Being on the "hot seat" in a particular season seems a lot less impactful than how the Hawks recruited 3 or 4 years prior to the "hot seat" season:
Unless being on the hot seat causes the coaches to travel back in time and recruit harder, my guess is that the ebbs in flow in performance are tied more to recruiting hits/misses than to how hard the coaches are trying.
As an aside, that chart does not bode especially well for the upcoming season. Hopefully the recent trend for outperforming the prediction is due to something specific (e.g. strategic changes or playing freshmen sooner) and not just to random luck.
