'19 In-State PG Tyreke Locure Talks Increased Iowa Interest

PCHawk said:
Its like in poker. If you get your money all in and need to hit a 2 outer to win, some people might say "a win is a win". They are right in a sense, but truthfully, you needed to get lucky. To me, getting your money in bad and getting lucky to win isn't the same as getting your money in good and winning. If you always need 2 outers, you're gunna lose over the long haul. Just like if you always rely on jumpers because you can't feed the post (Last year's team), you're eventually going to lose. All assists are not created equal.
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I agree - all assists are NOT created equal - and I get that, but an assist is an assist. For every easy assist a PG get's there probably is an equally pretty or nice one that was difficult to coincide with it. So it evens out IMO. For every sweet entry pass in the post, there was a feed to a SG who nailed a jumper. Personally, unimpressive assists to me are just as good and equal. Why? Cause they all create the same result? Give me the PG that makes the easy pass and bucket over a highlight pass every day of the week
 
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Unimpressive assist = higher percentage shot = winning basketball. If Jordan is good at unimpressive assist even better. I hope he racks up a ton more of em. In fact, I LOVE unimpressive assists and PG's who can make them.
 
InGoodCo said:
Unimpressive assist = higher percentage shot = winning basketball. If Jordan is good at unimpressive assist even better. I hope he racks up a ton more of em. In fact, I LOVE unimpressive assists and PG's who can make them.
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I find it funny that Mike's senior year people on here discredited his assist numbers because they were "unimpressive assists" and now we're spinning it as a positive thing for Jordan.
 
Hawk5656 said:
I find it funny that Mike's senior year people on here discredited his assist numbers because they were "unimpressive assists" and now we're spinning it as a positive thing for Jordan.
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I've never once said anything about unimpressive assists. I think it's one of the dumber things ever brought up on this board. An assist is an assist. Period
 
Sorry to interrupt and post something that is actually about Tyreke, but his team plays tonight in the Cap City League playoffs.
 
Hawknigh said:
Sorry to interrupt and post something that is actually about Tyreke, but his team plays tonight in the Cap City League playoffs.
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I've never really understood the offense people take to getting off topic on a message board to discuss Iowa sports in general. People being upset about this post being derailed and steering off topic seems kind of crazy considering we're still talking about Iowa's PG position. Not calling you out specific Nigh, just something I've never understood. I was able to get your post about Tyreke playing tonight in the Cap City League Playoff despite my rage of this thread going slightly off the rails.
 
PCHawk said:
I just don't agree with "an assist is an assist". Would you rather have a guy who could get a dunk any time he wanted or a guy who could get a mid range jumper any time he wanted? The mid range jumper is nowhere near as reliable as a dunk. Its the same way with assists. If your passes are at the mercy of whether or not your teammate makes a jumper, it's not near as beneficial to the team as if your pass gets your teammate a better scoring opportunity like a layup or dunk.
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Your last statement is correct. It doesn't, however, take away from the fact that if your basketball IQ is high enough to get the ball into the right teammates hands, inside or outside, and they score, you've done your job.

The bottom line is if the pass leads directly to a basket it's an assist.

GO HAWKS!!!
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
But through the course of a season, all guys are going to get credited with assists that lead to dunks and jumpers. So, relative to all other players, assist effectiveness is roughly going to be equal across the board.

They would have to create a new statistic to differentiate assists that lead to dunks and lay-ins and assists that lead to made jumpers. Probably could happen some day but until they do, an assist is an assist.
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That means you think every single player that averages 5 assists per game has the exact same passing ability. No other variables matter.
 
InGoodCo said:
I agree - all assists are NOT created equal - and I get that, but an assist is an assist. For every easy assist a PG get's there probably is an equally pretty or nice one that was difficult to coincide with it. So it evens out IMO. For every sweet entry pass in the post, there was a feed to a SG who nailed a jumper. Personally, unimpressive assists to me are just as good and equal. Why? Cause they all create the same result? Give me the PG that makes the easy pass and bucket over a highlight pass every day of the week
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People always pretend the two extremes are the only options. Its either a perfectly safe pass or a behind the back pass. But there is a huge grey area. You say you want a point guard who can make the easy pass. I say every point guard can make the easy pass, hence the word easy. I want a point guard like Bohannon who makes hard passes look easy regularly.

Assist stats show Gesell was a better passer his senior year than Bohannon was last year. Anyone who paid attention knows that's not the case. Mike racked up assist totals because Uthoff and Jok were two of the best contested jump shooters Iowa has ever had. There is nothing wrong with that. But put a guy with Bohannon's passing ability on that team, he probably averages 8 assists per game.
 
PCHawk said:
People always pretend the two extremes are the only options. Its either a perfectly safe pass or a behind the back pass. But there is a huge grey area. You say you want a point guard who can make the easy pass. I say every point guard can make the easy pass, hence the word easy. I want a point guard like Bohannon who makes hard passes look easy regularly.

Assist stats show Gesell was a better passer his senior year than Bohannon was last year. Anyone who paid attention knows that's not the case. Mike racked up assist totals because Uthoff and Jok were two of the best contested jump shooters Iowa has ever had. There is nothing wrong with that. But put a guy with Bohannon's passing ability on that team, he probably averages 8 assists per game.
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I think Mike was a better passer his senior year than Bohannon was last year.
 
InGoodCo said:
I've never really understood the offense people take to getting off topic on a message board to discuss Iowa sports in general. People being upset about this post being derailed and steering off topic seems kind of crazy considering we're still talking about Iowa's PG position. Not calling you out specific Nigh, just something I've never understood. I was able to get your post about Tyreke playing tonight in the Cap City League Playoff despite my rage of this thread going slightly off the rails.
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For some of us, the thread titles are like an index of topics. And there are no shortage of threads that deal with general topics. However, when a thread is about a specific prospect, it is nice to be able to go back and read all about that player without having to sort through tons of posts that have nothing to do with him. I recognize that the path to going off-topic usually starts with a semi-relevant reply, but I would like it if people at least paid attention to the thread topic when they reply. It seems that many are just replying to posts without regard for the threads they are in.

One other rationale for staying on topic. Often, the off-topic posts are actually pretty good (except when the petty battles kick in), but they are impossible to find when you have something to add to them at a later date. Why? Because they are buried in a thread with an unrelated title. If the thread title was "Iowa's PG position," we could always find and contribute to that conversation.
 
One more attempt to defend "one of the dumbest things ever said on here".

There are tons of variables that go into how many assists you accumulate. Like how many minutes you play, how many possessions your team averages, whether your a shoot first or pass first player, and how good your teammates are at scoring the ball.

This whole thing started because Twins said Gesell was a great passer because he had 6 assists per game. I countered and said he had a lot of variables in his favor like he played a lot of minutes on a fast paced team and rarely shot the ball. He also had two great jump shooters to pass the ball to.

Then I said sometimes the shooter is the guy who made the play and sometimes the passer is the guy who made the play. They both show up the same in the stat book, but anyone who watched the play knows who deserves the credit (sometimes both do). In my opinion, Gesell's assist numbers benefited a great deal by two shooters making plays. To me this is an example of someone putting more thought in a subject than most, not one of the dumbest things ever said.
 
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InGoodCo said:
Unimpressive assist = higher percentage shot = winning basketball. If Jordan is good at unimpressive assist even better. I hope he racks up a ton more of em. In fact, I LOVE unimpressive assists and PG's who can make them.
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Unimpressive assist does not equal higher percentage shot. They are completely unrelated. It has nothing to do with how high risk the pass was either. It has to do with if a player created a passing opportunity that the average player wouldn't have created. Bohannon had a ton of those last year. The way he created angles with his high basketball IQ to make Easy passes for EASY baskets that most players wouldn't make (or even see)was extremely impressive.
 
Ok there are 6 seconds left down 1 and Cook is posting up asking for the ball. Who do you want passing him the ball, Gesell or Bohannon? And it's cheating to say Bohannon just because Gesell will dribble off his foot before he passes the ball.
 
PCHawk said:
Unimpressive assist does not equal higher percentage shot. They are completely unrelated. It has nothing to do with how high risk the pass was either. It has to do with if a player created a passing opportunity that the average player wouldn't have created. Bohannon had a ton of those last year. The way he created angles with his high basketball IQ to make Easy passes for EASY baskets that most players wouldn't make (or even see)was extremely impressive.
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I don't exactly know what an unimpressive assist is, so sorry if I laid it out wrong in my reply. If the assist, impressive or not lead to pts, it's a good assist. The player gets credit for it. I get that sometimes the bucket is scored because of the shooter and sometimes because of the pass, but I maintain that they both end in the same result and ya get credit for both. Every assist is a good assist because someone scored. I agree some are better then others - but I can't discount any of them for any reason because again ...they all end with pts and also - who gives a .... I get what you are saying tho and IMO - I don't completely agree with your concept but that's ok, we can't always agree. We can agree that 56 took that word and then ran it into the ground tho.
 
PCHawk said:
Ok there are 6 seconds left down 1 and Cook is posting up asking for the ball. Who do you want passing him the ball, Gesell or Bohannon? And it's cheating to say Bohannon just because Gesell will dribble off his foot before he passes the ball.
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It might be cheating but that's how it would go down. I'd want Jordan because if the pass wasn't there, he could hit from anywhere on the floor.
 
PCHawk said:
Ok there are 6 seconds left down 1 and Cook is posting up asking for the ball. Who do you want passing him the ball, Gesell or Bohannon? And it's cheating to say Bohannon just because Gesell will dribble off his foot before he passes the ball.
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Did Mike steal your girlfriend? Mike would dribble it off his foot? He had way more assists and 11 less turnovers than Jordan had last year. Fans like you that discredit former players who gave it everything they had for four years is sickening in my opinion.
 
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