Why do the republicans/conservatives have this love for Putin and Russia???

[MelroseHawkins]

Well first of all I am not lying, it was a typo. I was probably typing too fast and thinking ahead. But you are calling me a liar, weird!!!!! I have a tendency to be thinking ahead as I talk and text, write so that was it. That is why people who are on twitter, which I am not, want a edit button. But you believe what you want.

Never called you a liar.................I stated it was just weird.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

What about California and New York City? What are their tax rates since you brought them up? New York City, about 8 million people iirc, has a massive subway system, elevated rails, a huge port, two airports while Polk County has very little of that kind of infrastructure. Hell we just flew back home to Des Moines last night, landed at 9:30 pm, and no one was hardly there, the airport is basically without activity after 9 pm so not nearly the expense (and not sure how much taxes go to the airport). If you have ever read about NYC's water system it is amazing, complicated, dug through bedrock, etc. While Polk County pulls water easily out of rivers and a natural aquafer and lakes to easily purify it and disperse it.

All my point is how the residents are fleeing CA at record rates as well as NY City. People are only going to put up with it so much. In the meantime, Texas and Nashville are to hot areas for relocating. All this makes the residents of these two states/areas rather nervous that these people will bring along many of their ideologies with them.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I am not trying to dispute your claims of people, mostly poorer, abusing systems like food stamps, aid to dependent children, low cost housing benefits, etc and just a lot of crooks who find ways to abuse medicare etc. But most times these are small dollar abuses individually but yes they do add up.

I know from what you say that your heart and mind are in the right place but I wish you would have the same disgust for all the rich corporations that pay little or no taxes, very rich people who pay little or no taxes, and the type of fraud in the millions and millions of dollars that occur in ag programs like stupid ass Trump's farmer bailout because of this stupid ass tariifs, and all 3 or 4 Covid relief laws/bills have been just stolen from for billions of dollars by companies and governments from city to county to state levels building all kinds of things that had nothing to do with Covid relief. Investigations are going on right now but like usual the rich will skate or get a slap on the hand while some poor schmuck ill, vet or poor guy on welfare because his workmans comp ran out will try to cut a few corners will get caught and spend a couple years in jail.

That is what is really sickening is the really rich stealing and gaming the system while it is a little more understandable when a single mom with 3 kids who cant afford day care tries to get a little more food and assistance.

Why is it that it is fine or we should look past the 5% of people who abuse our systems out of pure laziness and view it as expected collateral damage of the system we have ....

but......

focus and get tunnel vision on the 2% of the filthy ass rich people who exploit a system.

I'll tell you the difference.....the 5% is drain on a budget because they are not putting any $$$ into it, and I'm not talking about the severely disabled or indigent who we should support or the system was designed to help. The 2% of bad guys at least own or help run large corporation who provide thousands of jobs.

You choose to look past the small % of people who could/should work and pay taxes and I choose to look past the small % of corporate people who are providing jobs which helps the economy.

It doesn't really bother me that there are rich ass people much better off than me. They are always going to be out there whether they are republican or democrat. That is never going to change regardless of what party is in charge. So this "corporate bad guy" card the democrats always play and have been over the years gets old. They used to support the "union guys" in the past but unions don't seem to be as strong as in the past. Why did they do that, because that is where the majority of the votes would come from. More voters were middle class factory workers. It's such a racket.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Well how about making sure poor kids are not hungry and food insecure. Let's look at the basic needs that FDR and others have talked about. How about all kids 18 and under are covered 100% on healthcare and subsidized pharma costs for people who qualify.

Doesnt it bother you that Drs. Banting and Best did heroic research in Canada to discover and isolate insulin. And these doctors and Mcgill Univ, iirc, did not patent it but told everyone how to make insulin so they gave away the profits. Insulin up to 20 years ago did not cost much but now its cost is astronomical. Dont you think kids should get this free if they cant afford it.

That is just some of the things you do with extra taxes from the rich. Yeah, our govt sucks at making sure 95% of funds are used correctly.

But you still have to try. I get sick of people who do not want to try to solve basic problems, like poor water quality, bad sewage systems that are 100+ years old, bad roads and bridges.

I have said it before, rich people and rich corporations get richer because the Federal and other Govts have the roads, bridges, airports, ports, our whole defense dept to make oceans and airspaces safe but these really rich bastards like Jeff Bezos purposefully decide to have their actual salary be very little so he doesnt pay much taxes. Immoral and unethical to me.

The bold above is largely a behavior or trend issue over the past 30 years instead of a government supply issue. Yes, there are people in need, but the number of people has substantially gone up over the years, mainly due to bad family structure with responsible parents, families with both mothers and fathers.

This is the situation where are your going to just keep treating symptoms or are you going to treat the underlying condition which causes the symptoms. Compare with treating diabetes the all the systemic health issues/diagnoses associated with diabetes. It is very expensive to treat chronic diabetes. Some individuals can make life choices like lose weight, exercise more to control diabetes and prevent many of the other expensive complications to have to treat. Stop just ordering pills and/or insulin to treat the chronic condition when the underlying condition could possibly be taken care of with better life choices. That's my analogy.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

If they can't do any of that with all the money they already take, why would them taking a small amount more be any different?

It bothers the hell out of me that health care is so expensive. I just don't think stealing money from rich people will fix it. A big part of the problem is insurance companies. In theory they are a great idea. Pay a monthly payment every month so you don't get crippled with medical debt if something happens. But when you have hundreds of millions of dollars going to countless insurance companies every year, that's a lot of unnecessary money going to a middle man that frankly we might not need. Also preach a healthy lifestyle. Every American being an unhealthy fat ass is killing the healthcare system.

I think you are confusing not wanting to try with thinking the ideas presented are counter productive.

Rich bastards probably think they can do more good with their money than the government could if they took it. I can't really blame them for thinking that. Yesterday evening I broke my years old water jug I use for work. Today a new one got delivered to my doorstep. That probably would have never been able to happen if Bezos would have given his money to the government to waste instead of rolling most of his business's profits into expanding Amazon to make it the ridiculously convenient business it is today.

....................or just because they have it! That is much of what it comes down to. They have it so they must pay more is the thinking of many. How many times have we heard "Pay your fair share.". Who cares how hard they worked to get where they are, or if they have a special talent or they are exceptionally smart or gifted. Hell, or even got a huge inheritance. Some people just can't stand it that there is a small % that is just well-off.

It just irks some, but it doesn't irk me. Doesn't bother me a bit.

It's always going to be that way.

 

[PCHawk]

....................or just because they have it! That of it is what much of it comes down to. They have it so they must pay more is the thinking of many. How many times have we heard "Pay your fair share.". Who cares how hard they worked to get where they are, or if they have a special talent or they are exceptionally smart or gifted. Hell, or even got a huge inheritance. Some people just can't stand it that there is a small % that is just well-off.

It just irks some, but it doesn't irk me. Doesn't bother me a bit.

It's always going to be that way.

Democrats have a pretty good strategy going. Tell everyone you are going to take money from 1% of the people to make the other 99% better off. If even half of the 99% believe their bull shit it will mean a lot of votes.

When the numbers show they can't do anything with the few trillion they take every year, how can anyone believe they could do better with another 10-20 billion? I guess maybe most people can't comprehend numbers that high.

 

[HuckFinn]

In Iowa and Wisconsin many farmers are begging to lease land to grow feed for hogs (IA) and dairy cows (WI). For big $$. They are also aggressive buyers for big $$. My Grandpa Riter said “God don’t make no more land”. He bought 160 acres for $150 an acre during the depression and another 160 in Iowa and a 140 in MN for a few hundred $ an acre a number of years later. $10,500-$11,000+ is now the going rate. Selling, not asking price.

 

[HawkGold]

In Iowa and Wisconsin many farmers are begging to lease land to grow feed for hogs (IA) and dairy cows (WI). For big $$. They are also aggressive buyers for big $$. My Grandpa Riter said “God don’t make no more land”. He bought 160 acres for $150 an acre during the depression and another 160 in Iowa and a 140 in MN for a few hundred $ an acre a number of years later. $10,500-$11,000+ is now the going rate. Selling, not asking price.

Prime land in Iowa blew way passed 11k. Dairy numbers in Wisconsin are 1/2 of what they used to be. Iowa pork producers are now very centralized in a handful of counties. The do drive up prices in certain locals. The pork industrial is very industrialized now. What the producers which are now contractors for Iowa Select and others is places to spread manure and that they are clamoring for. That is done through contracts. Your grandfather likely built a house for 5000 or less and now at 400k.

That said, I think you are a democrat. This crap with Biden's, Pelosi and Kerry in Ukraine under the beginning watch of Obama is tantamount to war crimes. Yes the war is on Putin, but what we are seeing is an oligarch war with Biden's right in the middle of it. Trump is no better, just not within Ukraine.

Until Americans get over their love of parties nothing will change, though it looks like IL will be sending another politician (this time a dem) to federal prison.

You have to admire these unarmed Ukrainians in Dnipro confronting Russian troops in a city where people are disappearing and not seen again alive. "Go Home, Go Home"

https://twitter.com/i/status/1513116015722479616

Estimates from Mariupol which is close to Dnipro.....23000 dead and 35000 removed to Russian, all civilian numbers.

 

[Fryowa]

Prime land in Iowa blew way passed 11k. Dairy numbers in Wisconsin are 1/2 of what they used to be. Iowa pork producers are now very centralized in a handful of counties. The do drive up prices in certain locals. The pork industrial is very industrialized now. What the producers which are now contractors for Iowa Select and others is places to spread manure and that they are clamoring for. That is done through contracts. Your grandfather likely built a house for 5000 or less and now at 400k.

Pork industry has been that way for 20 years. Nothing new. Iowa hogs are owned by Smithfield, Tyson, ISF, or Pipestone. It's actually a great thing for producers. Nowadays in Iowa all you need to do is get a loan for a building backed by your parents or in-laws' farm ground (the very land your first building will sit on is enough), pay it off easily in 2 years, and then the bank will give you an open line of credit for as many as the county will let you build.

Hogs are all owned by the big 4, you get them after vaccination and it's on autopilot from then on. Tyson, Smithfield, and next year Pipestone will even negotiate and contract your feed and trucks for you. It's almost zero risk and nothing but a money maker. And corporate hog farming hasn't driven prices up whatsoever, it's driven them down. What's driving pork prices up is feed, fuel, and DNR compliance. My employer has a side division managing (not owning) 31 buildings in O'Brien, Sioux, Plymouth, and Clay counties. financials all come across my desk. It's never been a better time to be a hog farmer than it is right now, from a small guy with one building all the way up to Iowa Select.

Flat tillable acres in the 16 most NW Iowa counties are at $16K plus right now, in O'Brien/Sioux/Lyon you're not going to get a half section for less than $19K.

 

[HawkGold]

Pork industry has been that way for 20 years. Nothing new. Iowa hogs are owned by Smithfield, Tyson, ISF, or Pipestone. It's actually a great thing for producers. Nowadays in Iowa all you need to do is get a loan for a building backed by your parents or in-laws' farm ground (the very land your first building will sit on is enough), pay it off easily in 2 years, and then the bank will give you an open line of credit for as many as the county will let you build.

Hogs are all owned by the big 4, you get them after vaccination and it's on autopilot from then on. Tyson, Smithfield, and next year Pipestone will even negotiate and contract your feed and trucks for you. It's almost zero risk and nothing but a money maker. And corporate hog farming hasn't driven prices up whatsoever, it's driven them down. What's driving pork prices up is feed, fuel, and DNR compliance. My employer has a side division managing (not owning) 31 buildings in O'Brien, Sioux, Plymouth, and Clay counties. financials all come across my desk. It's never been a better time to be a hog farmer than it is right now, from a small guy with one building all the way up to Iowa Select.

Flat tillable acres in the 16 most NW Iowa counties are at $16K plus right now, in O'Brien/Sioux/Lyon you're not going to get a half section for less than $19K.

I was discounting buying the land for the house. Hog farming goes up and down. If there is too much profit, then the big companies will integrate into ownership of the facilities. Will be interesting to see what happens to interest rates with inflation running what it is. The FED doesn't seem to be overly concerned based on actions.

 

[Ree4]

 

[PCHawk]

Funny how true that graph is, yet people hate each other with a passion over minor differences.

 

[HawkGold]

Funny how true that graph is, yet people hate each other with a passion over minor differences.

It's the frog in the boiling pot. Get the rank and file sidetracked and carry on. While we are arguing pro Dem or pro Repub, the Dems and Repubs are absconding with the national treasury and insider trading. And now we have one hell of a war in Europe that could kill most of us. This argument is about like us arguing about pro Fry and pro Ferentz. Except one is now a football oligarch

 

[Ree4]

Funny how true that graph is, yet people hate each other with a passion over minor differences.

Exactly the point, the whole left vs right thing in this country is a distraction to what is actually happening. It's the main objective of mainstream media - to pit us against each other.

 

[Ree4]

Why is it that it is fine or we should look past the 5% of people who abuse our systems out of pure laziness and view it as expected collateral damage of the system we have ....

but......

focus and get tunnel vision on the 2% of the filthy ass rich people who exploit a system.

I'll tell you the difference.....the 5% is drain on a budget because they are not putting any $$$ into it, and I'm not talking about the severely disabled or indigent who we should support or the system was designed to help. The 2% of bad guys at least own or help run large corporation who provide thousands of jobs.

You choose to look past the small % of people who could/should work and pay taxes and I choose to look past the small % of corporate people who are providing jobs which helps the economy.

It doesn't really bother me that there are rich ass people much better off than me. They are always going to be out there whether they are republican or democrat. That is never going to change regardless of what party is in charge. So this "corporate bad guy" card the democrats always play and have been over the years gets old. They used to support the "union guys" in the past but unions don't seem to be as strong as in the past. Why did they do that, because that is where the majority of the votes would come from. More voters were middle class factory workers. It's such a racket.

Ahh the old trickle down theory eh? You realize that was a massive failure right? The biggest theft from American working people in history? It seems you'd prefer to have modern robber barons with more than enough money than they could spend in 1000 lifetimes while the poor, children and elderly starve.

Meanwhile you have companies like Exxon and Tyson price gouging the F out of the American public claiming "inflation" while at the same time having their highest quarterly profits IN HISTORY.

What the F is it with conservatives and their hatred of poor people and immigrants? They don't already have it hard enough? It's hilarious to me how conservative media convinces people to march together lockstep against the tyranny of SNAP.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your next "bootstrap" argument.

 

[PCHawk]

Ahh the old trickle down theory eh? You realize that was a massive failure right? The biggest theft from American working people in history? It seems you'd prefer to have modern robber barons with more than enough money than they could spend in 1000 lifetimes while the poor, children and elderly starve.

Meanwhile you have companies like Exxon and Tyson price gouging the F out of the American public claiming "inflation" while at the same time having their highest quarterly profits IN HISTORY.

What the F is it with conservatives and their hatred of poor people and immigrants? They don't already have it hard enough? It's hilarious to me how conservative media convinces people to march together lockstep against the tyranny of SNAP.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your next "bootstrap" argument.

My argument is that as long as there are corrupt politicians, you could tax rich people any dollar amount and there will still be the same amount of poor people.

Here's a question for you. Who benefits more votes from poor people, democrats or republicans? That answer is obvious. So knowing that answer, do you think democrats are in a big hurry to take poor people out of poverty?

 

[Fryowa]

Ahh the old trickle down theory eh? You realize that was a massive failure right?

Trickle down does in fact work. Where the disagreement occurs is how much of it trickles down.

I'd argue that of developed nations, the US's balance between capitalistic freedom and quality of life of the other 99% is probably best, although that might be biased since I'm American.

Again, I take your point about trickle-down economics not being as advertised, but I wouldn't trade it for a 60% tax rate. No way no how for me...

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Ahh the old trickle down theory eh? You realize that was a massive failure right? The biggest theft from American working people in history? It seems you'd prefer to have modern robber barons with more than enough money than they could spend in 1000 lifetimes while the poor, children and elderly starve.

Meanwhile you have companies like Exxon and Tyson price gouging the F out of the American public claiming "inflation" while at the same time having their highest quarterly profits IN HISTORY.

What the F is it with conservatives and their hatred of poor people and immigrants? They don't already have it hard enough? It's hilarious to me how conservative media convinces people to march together lockstep against the tyranny of SNAP.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your next "bootstrap" argument.

If you don't think "trickle down economics" hasn't been happening over time and don't think it will be the same going forward, you my sir, are naive as hell. It's the way it's been and will always be.

Companies don't absorb or eat inflation rates. They ALWAYS get passed down to the consumer. When inflation goes up 8.5%, more than likely increased revenues/profits will happen for most goods that people rely on.

I love how liberals just automatically label conservatives as racist or they hate poor people or immigrants. What is that based on. You don't know me at all. Immigrants is the key word. I don't hate legal immigrants. Hell, I don't even hate most illegal aliens/border crossers. I hate the system that the politicians don't follow because they want to exploit it for their reasons. We have a system for a reason. It's to control the flow and maintain consistency and not overrun resources to properly help individuals. Yea, I'm going to push back on that all damn day, and it not because I hate immigrants.

Answer me this, why are liberals so against using an immigration system? Why do they just want to open the borders? What other country does this or is expected to do this? Seriously, what fucking other country is completely liberal with their borders?

If you don't like it, move to California, krist! There's enough housing available for you to find to live or you could live on Skid Row.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

My argument is that as long as there are corrupt politicians, you could tax rich people any dollar amount and there will still be the same amount of poor people.

Here's a question for you. Who benefits more votes from poor people, democrats or republicans? That answer is obvious. So knowing that answer, do you think democrats are in a big hurry to take poor people out of poverty?

Yep, suppress the mass so they rely on government so they continue to vote like sheep. It's a very dangerous thing. You're never going to change this guy's mind. He's part of the 30% that says Biden and his posse are doing a bang-up job. There's always going to be the solid 30% who will never vote the other way. It's the % between 30-35 and 70% range that may change. If a president is hovering about 30% approval rating, IT'S A BAD SIGN, secondary to that reason....30% are always banked.

I think people are sick of this shit, and many in between the 30-70% range could go right and the liberals are going to take a blood bath at midterms. This has all happened in ONE year! ...............and it is not because of Putin invading Ukraine. Inflation was heading up prior to that. Gas prices were rising before that. We were already seeing "Biden did that" stickers on gas pumps the fall of 2021. Yea, I acknowledge it probably got worse since Putin invaded but it was already ramping up at historical levels prior to that.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Trickle down does in fact work. Where the disagreement occurs is how much of it trickles down.

I'd argue that of developed nations, the US's balance between capitalistic freedom and quality of life of the other 99% is probably best, although that might be biased since I'm American.

Again, I take your point about trickle-down economics not being as advertised, but I wouldn't trade it for a 60% tax rate. No way no how for me...

It absolutely does if done correctly. But as you point out, you are going to have people that take advantage of it, just like we have unemployed people who take advantage of government programs. I'm talking people that definitely could work but choose not to. But, we have to turn our head to those people and not notice or we are insincere. But, we surely can focus in on the small number of rich people who exploit the system, but provide jobs. Drives me nuts. You're never going to sell it to people like Ree, though. He's the type that just buys into what he sees on CNN, and apparently has been since the 1980's.