Why do the republicans/conservatives have this love for Putin and Russia???

[thedukeofearl]

North, your's is a typical American response. Putin is a madman dictator. Put, the west is trying to destroy his economy over the dying of oil. Putin has already laid out what he will do. How much he has the capability to do is another story. Putin in becoming maybe the richest man in the world didn't develop a balanced economy. He's already fighting the US in Ukraine. I would argue that Ukrainians over the years have been the most resilient if you look at history. Putin could care less about Israel unless he perceives them to be behind the so-called CABAL. Russia is an ally of Syria. What people don't get is that Assad was running a mostly peaceful nation but the west pipeline through Syria was going to be another way to take down Russian oil.

I'm not pro-Putin or Russia, especially while my friends are in harms way. Make no mistake, the West has drawn themselves in this.

About Reagan, it's somewhat a myth. The system was collapsing anyway. What seeded unrest was Carters grain embargo of a society that loves meat and they had to cull herds. The system was old and didn't do much for infrastructure including oil. Reagan came at the right time and the west Europeans cut credit.

Reagan did about accidentally start WW3 over KAL 007 as his administration had no understanding of Russian and Soviet society and how genuinely paranoid they really were. The Soviets really did mistake the airliner or a military craft. The US for sure knew that at the time and tried to make hay out of it. Reagan has a number of myths such as walking into the hospital by himself. Jerry Parr told me personally he was way to bad off to do that.

The invasion is terrible and completely on Putin. There are things that could have been done to alleviate this and weren't done.

American attitudes is why we have minimally 150,000 up to a million dead Iraqi's over our freedom to be safe from weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist and we knew that. Almost all wars are preventable and catastrophic.

American attitudes is why we have minimally 150,000 up to a million dead Iraqi's over our freedom to be safe from weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist and we knew that. Almost all wars are preventable and catastrophic.

 

[PCHawk]

That could be that you think they are not the same thing but really I am pretty firmly taking the stance that one is equal to the other. Appeasement and 'not doing shit' in 1938 and 1939 didnt stop a maniac then and it wont now. So not helping Ukraine with tons of supplies, weapons, and whatever food, water, and medicine so that Ukraine can win is the only way to stop this shit. Most people could logic out what would happen if Putin rolled over Ukraine because Ukraine had no help. Latvia, Estonia, etc etc would be next in a slow burn to undermine their governments. I dont want any war. It is so unproductive especially in 2022 when almost everything is global: oil and commodity prices, stock markets, production/shipping/trade, communications and media. I dont hate the russian citizens but they have a madman on the loose.

And why do you think some people think the US should not need to police the world?? Because we have had a bad taste the last 20 years in the Middle East ( and Korea, Vietnam, and some other situations). Our Bush 2 leaders were so fucking stupid because they crushed the Taliban in 3-6 months and had the Taliban wanting to surrender and lay down arms. But our leaders told them no because they wanted the War Machine to ramp up. A surrendered Taliban and a half way decent democratic govt in Afghan would have given the US really good options in finding and crushing Al Queda.

And the Bushies' war in Iraq was just a terribly unneeded war. Period.

So maybe some of those people might not be soft on Putin but they are nuts to not help stop Putin in this invasion.

Now what you're saying is those two different things end up with the same results. I'm completely fine with that opinion. But my point stands to your last post. A huge percentage of the people who don't want us to do anything aren't necessarily ok with Putin doing it.

 

[HawkGold]

Update on war:

Russia is having problems. They have abandoned the US strategy of Shock and Awe and moving toward old Soviet tactics. Pound the hell out of the enemy. Yes, they have issues with supplies and manpower. If you look at the battle maps, you'll see the Russian strategy.
1. They have secured areas of great importance on natural resources, particularly oil in the east. If the west develops the east (Donbas) for oil, Russia's economy is threatened.
2. They have secured Crimea and now have a way to supply it not over narrow land.
3. They have avoided a frontal assault on Khavkiv in the east though they have pounded that city of 1.5 million.
4. They are positioning to get close enough to Kyiv on both sides so they can pound the city center with artillery. Russia is attempting to solidify the area east of Kyiv.
5. The major push inward is from the south to the north where most of their top troops are located.
6. Russia has largely put off a movement toward Odesa in the SW but have done some recent shelling from naval forces in the Black Sea.
7. They have surrounded and now systematically hunting down the AZOV Battalion (neonazi) at Mariupol, in the SE, a major port city. Mariupol is being destroyed due to AZOV being located there and AZOV was the only effective fighting force in Donbas during the initial years of Donbas fighting from 2014 on.
8. Russia has yet to move into prime farming areas in east/central. Ukraine is a major exporter of grain and Russia now controls 90 of grain movement in Ukraine by controlling the lower Dniepro River. Think lower Mississippi River and west rail through the Dakotas and what that would do to US ag. Only the Dnieper makes the Mississippi look like a creek.

Ukraine side
1. Incredible resistance but only due to west military supplies.
2. Ukraine has done some offensive moves to push out Russian forces from cities and open corridors.
3. Ukraine will suffer immense losses like the Russians if they try and push out Russian forces if Russia doesn't collapse.

Kyiv is in north center.
Donbas in East
Crimea in south
Dniepro River goes from Kyiv winding east and then west to the south exiting into the Black Sea near Crimea.

 

[HawkGold]

Russia is building pressure on Kyiv. Chernihiv NE of Kyiv will soon be cut off completely.
Russian troops are digging in and setting up artillery to pound Kyiv.
Kyiv is in the middle. Chernihiv NE of Kyiv.

 

[HawkGold]

Sumy in the center bordering Russia is about to be cut off. This major city will be a huge loss to Ukraine. Kharkiv in the lower left has held Russia so far in check.

 

[HawkGold]

Mariupol is now toast. This is the home of AZOV. AZOV prevented civilians from leaving. The total civilian death toll will be unimaginable. Russia forces have now been fighting in the city center. Russia destroyed a theater where 1400 civilians were taking shelter. At least 400 fatalities, but many are still buried.

 

[HawkGold]

Last comment for now. Pay close attention to what Putin says. He always has talked about the Baltic states. The man doesn't do idle chat. He is quite charming when you hear him talk. Charm and ruthlessness are a dangerous mix.

 

[HawkGold]

Back to the original post. Why? Conservative Republicans claim to be Christians as a group in general. George 2 likely doesn't invade Iraq without the support of the Christian Right and their concept of a "JUST WAR".

Putin at his recent rally quoted scripture. “Words from the Holy Bible come to my head: there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”

Putin comes across as more sincere than Graham, Robertson, and Osteen. See it for yourself below.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1504978935901261828

 

[BigD]

I don’t know about 5 million. What I do know is that Donald Trump is the leader of the Republican Party. Trump’s own words define his position on Putin and other alike Thugs. Read or listen to them. Therefore, the Republican Party is complicit until they denounce Trump as their leader. That, my friends, is a fact. There is simply nothing controversial about that statement. You lie down with dogs, you arise with fleas. Reality sucks.

I suppose it you own oil stock you probably love what’s going on right now.

Trump loves money and whores. He has paid up front and on the rear of some of these relationships. Paid a pretty penny seven or eight years ago for women to keep their mouths shut. A couple of years before that he paid them to keep their mouths open.

I am in the Independent party crowd. Conservative Christian values, which ultimately cause me to also be a compassionate person who doesn’t mind paying a little more out in taxes to help sustain the sick, afflicted, handicapped, disabled, and young struggling families.

However don’t care for those who are milking and abusing the social programs by way of fraud due to their pathetic laziness.

I liked Ford and Reagan and even George junior was good for a few laughs, but that cheating adulterous draft dodging piece of shit, Donald Trump this nation could do without.

Would love to see Romney give it another go. I have heard from many staunch democrats say they would cross over and vote for Mitt.

For the most part I generally look at politicians as whores selling themselves out to the highest bidders……….. on both sides of the isle.

 

[HuckFinn]

I suppose it you own oil stock you probably love what’s going on right now.

Trump loves money and whores. He has paid up front and on the rear of some of these relationships. Paid a pretty penny seven or eight years ago for women to keep their mouths shut. A couple of years before that he paid them to keep their mouths open.

I am in the Independent party crowd. Conservative Christian values, which ultimately cause me to also be a compassionate person who doesn’t mind paying a little more out in taxes to help sustain the sick, afflicted, handicapped, disabled, and young struggling families.

However don’t care for those who are milking and abusing the social programs by way of fraud due to their pathetic laziness.

I liked Ford and Reagan and even George junior was good for a few laughs, but that cheating adulterous draft dodging piece of shit, Donald Trump this nation could do without.

Would love to see Romney give it another go. I have heard from many staunch democrats say they would cross over and vote for Mitt.

For the most part I generally look at politicians as whores selling themselves out to the highest bidders……….. on both sides of the isle.

Lots of stuff here I agree with. Social programs will be abused. I would say that the abusers are a minority maybe not worth our worry. That does not mean I have anything but disgust for the abuses. And, yeah. We have clearly established a system that relies on huge $$ to be elected and that is big trouble.

 

[HawkGold]

The latest news in Ukraine is the lack of news. More propaganda is now being slung from both sides and nuclear war threats.

Ukraine troops have pushed back some on the east and west side of Kyiv. The airport and main highway are still open on the SE side.

Russia claims to be concentrating now more on the east Donbas area. Refugee flows suggest that is occuring. There is a lack of news in the south.

 

[uihawk82]

I suppose it you own oil stock you probably love what’s going on right now.

However don’t care for those who are milking and abusing the social programs by way of fraud due to their pathetic laziness.

For the most part I generally look at politicians as whores selling themselves out to the highest bidders……….. on both sides of the isle.

I am not trying to dispute your claims of people, mostly poorer, abusing systems like food stamps, aid to dependent children, low cost housing benefits, etc and just a lot of crooks who find ways to abuse medicare etc. But most times these are small dollar abuses individually but yes they do add up.

I know from what you say that your heart and mind are in the right place but I wish you would have the same disgust for all the rich corporations that pay little or no taxes, very rich people who pay little or no taxes, and the type of fraud in the millions and millions of dollars that occur in ag programs like stupid ass Trump's farmer bailout because of this stupid ass tariifs, and all 3 or 4 Covid relief laws/bills have been just stolen from for billions of dollars by companies and governments from city to county to state levels building all kinds of things that had nothing to do with Covid relief. Investigations are going on right now but like usual the rich will skate or get a slap on the hand while some poor schmuck ill, vet or poor guy on welfare because his workmans comp ran out will try to cut a few corners will get caught and spend a couple years in jail.

That is what is really sickening is the really rich stealing and gaming the system while it is a little more understandable when a single mom with 3 kids who cant afford day care tries to get a little more food and assistance.

 

[uihawk82]

Lots of stuff here I agree with. Social programs will be abused. I would say that the abusers are a minority maybe not worth our worry. That does not mean I have anything but disgust for the abuses. And, yeah. We have clearly established a system that relies on huge $$ to be elected and that is big trouble.

Please see my reply in this thread to the same post by BigD that you replied to about the rich people abuses.

 

[PCHawk]

I am not trying to dispute your claims of people, mostly poorer, abusing systems like food stamps, aid to dependent children, low cost housing benefits, etc and just a lot of crooks who find ways to abuse medicare etc. But most times these are small dollar abuses individually but yes they do add up.

I know from what you say that your heart and mind are in the right place but I wish you would have the same disgust for all the rich corporations that pay little or no taxes, very rich people who pay little or no taxes, and the type of fraud in the millions and millions of dollars that occur in ag programs like stupid ass Trump's farmer bailout because of this stupid ass tariifs, and all 3 or 4 Covid relief laws/bills have been just stolen from for billions of dollars by companies and governments from city to county to state levels building all kinds of things that had nothing to do with Covid relief. Investigations are going on right now but like usual the rich will skate or get a slap on the hand while some poor schmuck ill, vet or poor guy on welfare because his workmans comp ran out will try to cut a few corners will get caught and spend a couple years in jail.

That is what is really sickening is the really rich stealing and gaming the system while it is a little more understandable when a single mom with 3 kids who cant afford day care tries to get a little more food and assistance.

My business is a Corporation and it pays zero dollars in taxes. The reason for that is because my tax guy has my Corporation distribute all of its money to the employees (me) at the end of the year so it ends up with no gains. I of course pay taxes on that money in the form of personal income taxes. If someone wants to be a dick about it they can say "your company made this amount of money but it didn't pay any taxes". It doesn't matter tho because those taxes still got paid. My tax guy sets it up that way as a form of convenience. It doesn't save me any money.

Also what do you think would happen if they taxed the rich more money? The government is both corrupt and stupid with money. Do you think they will do good with it? Do you think that means other people won't have to pay as much? My opinion is if they taxed the rich a few more billion per year they would just piss that money away too.

Also how do you want them to tax the rich more? Most people are rich with assets and not with liquid money. Are you someone who wants taxes on unrealized gains when stock goes up? Imagine owning 100 shares in a company and that stock goes up 10 percent. If the government taxes you on those gains, you have to sell a few stocks just to pay taxes on it. Now you have 97 shares but you don't have anything to show for it. They do that for 10 years and now you have 70 shares or so. Then your company drops back to the price it was 10 years ago and you've lost 30% of your company and 30% of your value. How is that fair? And if they started doing that with the top 1%, how long before they up it to the top 2%? Them it's the top 10%. Then it's everyone. You simply can't justify taxing unrealized gains and if you can't tax unrealized gains, you can't tax the rich more because most of their wealth is unrealized.

 

[uihawk82]

My business is a Corporation and it pays zero dollars in taxes. The reason for that is because my tax guy has my Corporation distribute all of its money to the employees (me) at the end of the year so it ends up with no gains. I of course pay taxes on that money in the form of personal income taxes. If someone wants to be a dick about it they can say "your company made this amount of money but it didn't pay any taxes". It doesn't matter tho because those taxes still got paid. My tax guy sets it up that way as a form of convenience. It doesn't save me any money.

Also what do you think would happen if they taxed the rich more money? The government is both corrupt and stupid with money. Do you think they will do good with it? Do you think that means other people won't have to pay as much? My opinion is if they taxed the rich a few more billion per year they would just piss that money away too.

Also how do you want them to tax the rich more? Most people are rich with assets and not with liquid money. Are you someone who wants taxes on unrealized gains when stock goes up? Imagine owning 100 shares in a company and that stock goes up 10 percent. If the government taxes you on those gains, you have to sell a few stocks just to pay taxes on it. Now you have 97 shares but you don't have anything to show for it. They do that for 10 years and now you have 70 shares or so. Then your company drops back to the price it was 10 years ago and you've lost 30% of your company and 30% of your value. How is that fair? And if they started doing that with the top 1%, how long before they up it to the top 2%? Them it's the top 10%. Then it's everyone. You simply can't justify taxing unrealized gains and if you can't tax unrealized gains, you can't tax the rich more because most of their wealth is unrealized.

How can you tax the rich? Well, do you consider a buy or sell transaction of stock something that should be taxed? When poor people buy clothes they are taxed at the same rate around polk county Iowa, 7%, as when rich people buy clothes.

As far as I know every legislative attempt to tax stock transactions have failed yet buying a stock is no different than buy a pair of jeans. Jeans are a commodity and a stock is a real part of owning a piece of a company. Tax these transactions. Poor people dont do stock sales because they are poor.

I dont want to get into your single owner LLC or however you have your company set up but I have to wonder if your statement is true about personal income being taxed at the same rate as business profit.

But I am talking about Amazon, FedEx (which I used to work for), GE, and so many more huge multinational corporations that do not pay taxes or effectively pay very little tax.

Even though I do not like Joe Manchin's blockage of key help for workers etc in some legislation, Manchin, like Bernie Sanders, has put forward legislation to say business have to pay at least 10-15% tax rate (as long as the tax code is set up so large corporations can't use use magical GAAP and tax rules to turn all their profit into some type of mysterious liability on their books).

Personally, I think the United States, the states, and local govts. needs to go more to some types of USE tax and progressive sales tax and make income taxes lower. This way if you buy it or use it you pay for it.

 

[okeefe4prez]

How can you tax the rich? Well, do you consider a buy or sell transaction of stock something that should be taxed? When poor people buy clothes they are taxed at the same rate around polk county Iowa, 7%, as when rich people buy clothes.

As far as I know every legislative attempt to tax stock transactions have failed yet buying a stock is no different than buy a pair of jeans. Jeans are a commodity and a stock is a real part of owning a piece of a company. Tax these transactions. Poor people dont do stock sales because they are poor.

I dont want to get into your single owner LLC or however you have your company set up but I have to wonder if your statement is true about personal income being taxed at the same rate as business profit.

But I am talking about Amazon, FedEx (which I used to work for), GE, and so many more huge multinational corporations that do not pay taxes or effectively pay very little tax.

Even though I do not like Joe Manchin's blockage of key help for workers etc in some legislation, Manchin, like Bernie Sanders, has put forward legislation to say business have to pay at least 10-15% tax rate (as long as the tax code is set up so large corporations can't use use magical GAAP and tax rules to turn all their profit into some type of mysterious liability on their books).

Personally, I think the United States, the states, and local govts. needs to go more to some types of USE tax and progressive sales tax and make income taxes lower. This way if you buy it or use it you pay for it.

The sales tax rate in Polk County is now 7%? Holy shit, I remember when it was 4% and they raised it to 5% and there were all sorts of assurances, "THIS IS THE LAST TIME WE WILL EVER HAVE TO RAISE THE SALES TAX."

Taxing a stock sale in and of itself is moronic. The government collects tax on the gains and those gains aren't indexed for inflation. Stock goes up 10% and inflation is 10% you have no real gain, but you will still have to pay tax. You tax stock transactions and you just create more disincentives to buy stocks, when in actuality the stock market has been the single largest tool to drive up the wealth of the middle class in the US. A fairly de minimis monthly investment over 40 years can turn people into millionaires.

You apparently know virtually nothing about the tax code except platitudes that have been carefully planted into your head over the past few decades by media personalities who also know virtually nothing about the tax code.

 

[PCHawk]

How can you tax the rich? Well, do you consider a buy or sell transaction of stock something that should be taxed? When poor people buy clothes they are taxed at the same rate around polk county Iowa, 7%, as when rich people buy clothes.

As far as I know every legislative attempt to tax stock transactions have failed yet buying a stock is no different than buy a pair of jeans. Jeans are a commodity and a stock is a real part of owning a piece of a company. Tax these transactions. Poor people dont do stock sales because they are poor.

I dont want to get into your single owner LLC or however you have your company set up but I have to wonder if your statement is true about personal income being taxed at the same rate as business profit.

But I am talking about Amazon, FedEx (which I used to work for), GE, and so many more huge multinational corporations that do not pay taxes or effectively pay very little tax.

Even though I do not like Joe Manchin's blockage of key help for workers etc in some legislation, Manchin, like Bernie Sanders, has put forward legislation to say business have to pay at least 10-15% tax rate (as long as the tax code is set up so large corporations can't use use magical GAAP and tax rules to turn all their profit into some type of mysterious liability on their books).

Personally, I think the United States, the states, and local govts. needs to go more to some types of USE tax and progressive sales tax and make income taxes lower. This way if you buy it or use it you pay for it.

So what do you invasion happening to the extra money by taxing the rich more? Also have you considered how little extra money they could get from the rich, in relation to what the debt is that they created? And how completely inept at handling money they must have been to build up that debt? If you're going to confiscate such a huge amount of money from successful people, you better have a pretty damn good plan for it. Is it the right thing to do if all you're going to do is only add 4.5 trillion dollars to the national debt every year instead of 5 trillion?

 

[uihawk82]

The sales tax rate in Polk County is now 7%? Holy shit, I remember when it was 4% and they raised it to 5% and there were all sorts of assurances, "THIS IS THE LAST TIME WE WILL EVER HAVE TO RAISE THE SALES TAX."

Taxing a stock sale in and of itself is moronic. The government collects tax on the gains and those gains aren't indexed for inflation. Stock goes up 10% and inflation is 10% you have no real gain, but you will still have to pay tax. You tax stock transactions and you just create more disincentives to buy stocks, when in actuality the stock market has been the single largest tool to drive up the wealth of the middle class in the US. A fairly de minimis monthly investment over 40 years can turn people into millionaires.

You apparently know virtually nothing about the tax code except platitudes that have been carefully planted into your head over the past few decades by media personalities who also know virtually nothing about the tax code.

the idea of stock transaction taxes is they are really small but there are millions of them all the time. Is a stock transaction the sale of an asset, yes, then tax it, just like when you sell a car the buyer pays tax and then all the licensing cost.

Quit trying to tell me that rich people cant afford a fucking nickel tax on their stock transaction. And it wont put a quash on stock sales which is just another form of gambling.

Yes, IA state sales tax is 6% and yes Polk County put another 10% on top of that.

 

[uihawk82]

So what do you invasion happening to the extra money by taxing the rich more? Also have you considered how little extra money they could get from the rich, in relation to what the debt is that they created? And how completely inept at handling money they must have been to build up that debt? If you're going to confiscate such a huge amount of money from successful people, you better have a pretty damn good plan for it. Is it the right thing to do if all you're going to do is only add 4.5 trillion dollars to the national debt every year instead of 5 trillion?

Well how about making sure poor kids are not hungry and food insecure. Let's look at the basic needs that FDR and others have talked about. How about all kids 18 and under are covered 100% on healthcare and subsidized pharma costs for people who qualify.

Doesnt it bother you that Drs. Banting and Best did heroic research in Canada to discover and isolate insulin. And these doctors and Mcgill Univ, iirc, did not patent it but told everyone how to make insulin so they gave away the profits. Insulin up to 20 years ago did not cost much but now its cost is astronomical. Dont you think kids should get this free if they cant afford it.

That is just some of the things you do with extra taxes from the rich. Yeah, our govt sucks at making sure 95% of funds are used correctly.

But you still have to try. I get sick of people who do not want to try to solve basic problems, like poor water quality, bad sewage systems that are 100+ years old, bad roads and bridges.

I have said it before, rich people and rich corporations get richer because the Federal and other Govts have the roads, bridges, airports, ports, our whole defense dept to make oceans and airspaces safe but these really rich bastards like Jeff Bezos purposefully decide to have their actual salary be very little so he doesnt pay much taxes. Immoral and unethical to me.

 

[PCHawk]

Well how about making sure poor kids are not hungry and food insecure. Let's look at the basic needs that FDR and others have talked about. How about all kids 18 and under are covered 100% on healthcare and subsidized pharma costs for people who qualify.

Doesnt it bother you that Drs. Banting and Best did heroic research in Canada to discover and isolate insulin. And these doctors and Mcgill Univ, iirc, did not patent it but told everyone how to make insulin so they gave away the profits. Insulin up to 20 years ago did not cost much but now its cost is astronomical. Dont you think kids should get this free if they cant afford it.

That is just some of the things you do with extra taxes from the rich. Yeah, our govt sucks at making sure 95% of funds are used correctly.

But you still have to try. I get sick of people who do not want to try to solve basic problems, like poor water quality, bad sewage systems that are 100+ years old, bad roads and bridges.

I have said it before, rich people and rich corporations get richer because the Federal and other Govts have the roads, bridges, airports, ports, our whole defense dept to make oceans and airspaces safe but these really rich bastards like Jeff Bezos purposefully decide to have their actual salary be very little so he doesnt pay much taxes. Immoral and unethical to me.

If they can't do any of that with all the money they already take, why would them taking a small amount more be any different?

It bothers the hell out of me that health care is so expensive. I just don't think stealing money from rich people will fix it. A big part of the problem is insurance companies. In theory they are a great idea. Pay a monthly payment every month so you don't get crippled with medical debt if something happens. But when you have hundreds of millions of dollars going to countless insurance companies every year, that's a lot of unnecessary money going to a middle man that frankly we might not need. Also preach a healthy lifestyle. Every American being an unhealthy fat ass is killing the healthcare system.

I think you are confusing not wanting to try with thinking the ideas presented are counter productive.

Rich bastards probably think they can do more good with their money than the government could if they took it. I can't really blame them for thinking that. Yesterday evening I broke my years old water jug I use for work. Today a new one got delivered to my doorstep. That probably would have never been able to happen if Bezos would have given his money to the government to waste instead of rolling most of his business's profits into expanding Amazon to make it the ridiculously convenient business it is today.