Why do the republicans/conservatives have this love for Putin and Russia???

It absolutely does if done correctly. But as you point out, you are going to have people that take advantage of it, just like we have unemployed people who take advantage of government programs. I'm talking people that definitely could work but choose not to. But, we have to turn our head to those people and not notice or we are insincere. But, we surely can focus in on the small number of rich people who exploit the system, but provide jobs. Drives me nuts. You're never going to sell it to people like Ree, though. He's the type that just buys into what he sees on CNN, and apparently has been since the 1980's.
I'm not trying to sell any ideas, I think both the left and the right are both scumbaggy.

Any system where the people who govern can make a life-long career out of governing is a bunch of bullshit anyway.

I have no love for any elected official or any party. There are three and only three reasons anyone runs for office, from the local school board to the president of the US. Money, power, or publicity. Sometimes only one of them, but most of the time it’s all three.

The only good politician is a former one.
 
It absolutely does if done correctly. But as you point out, you are going to have people that take advantage of it, just like we have unemployed people who take advantage of government programs. I'm talking people that definitely could work but choose not to. But, we have to turn our head to those people and not notice or we are insincere. But, we surely can focus in on the small number of rich people who exploit the system, but provide jobs. Drives me nuts. You're never going to sell it to people like Ree, though. He's the type that just buys into what he sees on CNN, and apparently has been since the 1980's.
Duh, communism works if done correctly too. The problem is it never is, there will always be corrupt people in charge. It's a fucking utopian idea that you're grasping on to.

I remember yes, 5% of the population is too lazy to work. Where did you get that figure? That is a head-in-the-sand bullshit figure you pulled out of your ass. What programs do they take advantage of, $100 per month of SNAP benefits? How does anybody live on that? SSA benefits? Nah can't be, they have to be legally disabled to get that. Unemployment? Nah, has time-limits. Welfare? Most families that qualify have a 60 month limit. All you do is post vague talking points with no actual evidence to back it up, only that which you've manufactured.

The most common fallacy I see from proponents of trickle-down theory is that an ultra wealthy person is required to create jobs. That is a lie. In fact, the only reason people are ultra wealthy is because they exploit 1) their workers 2) the environment 3) federal subsidies. One of the biggest problems with capitalism is that on average every worker is paid less than the value they produce. It's a side effect, likely intentional. People who work hard and smart should absolutely be rewarded

Unlike you, I actually look at independent sources. Here's a fun article about how Amazon's wealth "trickles down". I'm sure you'll ignore it though since it isn't right leaning:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cor...-these-communities-pay-the-price-a2554249208/
 
Duh, communism works if done correctly too. The problem is it never is, there will always be corrupt people in charge. It's a fucking utopian idea that you're grasping on to.

I remember yes, 5% of the population is too lazy to work. Where did you get that figure? That is a head-in-the-sand bullshit figure you pulled out of your ass. What programs do they take advantage of, $100 per month of SNAP benefits? How does anybody live on that? SSA benefits? Nah can't be, they have to be legally disabled to get that. Unemployment? Nah, has time-limits. Welfare? Most families that qualify have a 60 month limit. All you do is post vague talking points with no actual evidence to back it up, only that which you've manufactured.

The most common fallacy I see from proponents of trickle-down theory is that an ultra wealthy person is required to create jobs. That is a lie. In fact, the only reason people are ultra wealthy is because they exploit 1) their workers 2) the environment 3) federal subsidies. One of the biggest problems with capitalism is that on average every worker is paid less than the value they produce. It's a side effect, likely intentional. People who work hard and smart should absolutely be rewarded

Unlike you, I actually look at independent sources. Here's a fun article about how Amazon's wealth "trickles down". I'm sure you'll ignore it though since it isn't right leaning:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cor...-these-communities-pay-the-price-a2554249208/
The people who work for me make me more money than what I pay them. How could it be any other way tho? Why would I hire someone if I took a net loss from their work? Why would I hire someone if I only broke even from their work? There would be no point in anyone ever hiring anyone if they didn't profit off their work.
 
Trickle down does in fact work. Where the disagreement occurs is how much of it trickles down.

I'd argue that of developed nations, the US's balance between capitalistic freedom and quality of life of the other 99% is probably best, although that might be biased since I'm American.

Again, I take your point about trickle-down economics not being as advertised, but I wouldn't trade it for a 60% tax rate. No way no how for me...
Yes, it is how much. Your claim that it works, however, makes no sense if trickle down was unsuccessful. Duh. What 60% tax rate? Tell me about balance for unaffordable life saving drugs, bankruptcy gone wild from medical bills, parents unable to afford child care which follows the travesty that they cannot get paid leave to bond with the new born. A minimum wage that is a total joke, a tax system that gets largely regressive in a hurry rather than a consistent progressive system (think social security payment stops), and the biggest joke of all, “corporations are people.” From there, jump to our treatment of women, people of color, LGBT community, and of course, our failure to protect our right to vote. I love this country way too much to allow us to continue down the path to oligarchy and authoritarIan rule.
 
Yes, it is how much. Your claim that it works, however, makes no sense if trickle down was unsuccessful. Duh. What 60% tax rate? Tell me about balance for unaffordable life saving drugs, bankruptcy gone wild from medical bills, parents unable to afford child care which follows the travesty that they cannot get paid leave to bond with the new born. A minimum wage that is a total joke, a tax system that gets largely regressive in a hurry rather than a consistent progressive system (think social security payment stops), and the biggest joke of all, “corporations are people.” From there, jump to our treatment of women, people of color, LGBT community, and of course, our failure to protect our right to vote. I love this country way too much to allow us to continue down the path to oligarchy and authoritarIan rule.
It's so weird how trying to make sure people vote legally has become taking away their right to vote.
 
It's so weird how trying to make sure people vote legally has become taking away their right to vote.
So, how does closing down voting places in primarily black neighborhoods help to defend legal voting? How does voting by mail with the already tight restrictions, end up being eliminated? How does“drive by” voting, which is monitored just like in person voter’s ballots, get eliminated? How does shortening open times for in person voting help eliminate illegal voting? How does denying people the opportunity to vote on Sunday help protect us? ( Guess what ethnicity tends to vote heavily, in person, on Sunday’s) How does early voting provide a security risk? Good grief. Apparently you are one of very few who has not seen the outrage from neutral (League of Women Voters, for example) groups nation wide, the disgust in several court cases shown by judges who identify the Republican legislators as attacking democracy, the fact that the number of illegal votes is so small that you run out of decimal points, and that, finally, the lawsuits brought by Trumpers failed in every single court case to show any evidence of significant voter fraud.
I guess facts confuse you.
 
I'm not trying to sell any ideas, I think both the left and the right are both scumbaggy.

Any system where the people who govern can make a life-long career out of governing is a bunch of bullshit anyway.

I have no love for any elected official or any party. There are three and only three reasons anyone runs for office, from the local school board to the president of the US. Money, power, or publicity. Sometimes only one of them, but most of the time it’s all three.

The only good politician is a former one.
I think we three are all on the same page here. Agree.
 
Duh, communism works if done correctly too. The problem is it never is, there will always be corrupt people in charge. It's a fucking utopian idea that you're grasping on to.

I remember yes, 5% of the population is too lazy to work. Where did you get that figure? That is a head-in-the-sand bullshit figure you pulled out of your ass. What programs do they take advantage of, $100 per month of SNAP benefits? How does anybody live on that? SSA benefits? Nah can't be, they have to be legally disabled to get that. Unemployment? Nah, has time-limits. Welfare? Most families that qualify have a 60 month limit. All you do is post vague talking points with no actual evidence to back it up, only that which you've manufactured.

The most common fallacy I see from proponents of trickle-down theory is that an ultra wealthy person is required to create jobs. That is a lie. In fact, the only reason people are ultra wealthy is because they exploit 1) their workers 2) the environment 3) federal subsidies. One of the biggest problems with capitalism is that on average every worker is paid less than the value they produce. It's a side effect, likely intentional. People who work hard and smart should absolutely be rewarded

Unlike you, I actually look at independent sources. Here's a fun article about how Amazon's wealth "trickles down". I'm sure you'll ignore it though since it isn't right leaning:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cor...-these-communities-pay-the-price-a2554249208/
1) No it doesn't. Suppressing the people never works.
2) Hell, I thought I'd play it safe and quote lower than it probably actually is. It wasn't to have one focus on the number, look at the context of the debate. It was to make a point. What numbers from the internet are you actually going to believe anyway. One can find a range of %. You'd just look until you found a % to fit your argument anyway. That's what happens. So, turn your head away from the context of the debate if you wish.

Dude, if you only knew about me or who I was, you'd better understand my stance on this. I'm not of the Spanish race but I'm that Mexican who feels a slap in the face who went thru the immigration system and process providing all the documents and thru the testing to be a legal immigrant, only to see people of his race crossing the border illegally and/or bused to Washington DC and dropped off with an envelope, simple wrist ban for identification to be scanned and new clothes and kickers. Just an analogy of my situation. Dude, I'm seriously one of the most unique low % minorities living in this country. The Black race, Asian race, immigrants and illegal aliens all have higher numbers than the demographic I am a part of. I'm such a minority, it wouldn't surprise me if I described my situation on this site, people could put 2 & 2 together and figure out who I was. I could have lived on SSD since I was 18 years old. Actually, I know some individuals in my similar situation that have chose to do that. They could have worked and made a career but chose not to and live off the government. They had all capacities but decided at young ages, they were "retired". I didn't,. I'm now on my 29th year at my one career job in my life. I am in a minority that it would be socially acceptable by most if they knew the government was kicking me a check every month. I chose not to go that route and to make a life of my own and a pretty damn good one, work and family. I chose to continue my education and work and to work to being in the upper middle class level. I could have chose the other way at age 18, given up and state as what an acquaintance always responded with when asked what they did for a living at age 26 "I'm retired". So, please DO NOT lecture me about the poor people who have it rough, because more often than not it is a behavior or a choice issue by individuals, not a government supply issue.

So, unlike you sir (I assume, my bad), I actually live as one of the most rare minorities in this country. Over the years, I've had to navigate unfairness in the public sector, discrimination by a rogue bank lender, and extreme difficulty with finding housing in the 1980's and 1990's, etc.. I didn't and don't bitch to the government, sue anybody, or demand anybody make changes. I forged ahead and lived my life and paved my way, paying taxes and not taking a damn dime from the government. All I'm saying, there are many more that can do that than you think.
 
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The people who work for me make me more money than what I pay them. How could it be any other way tho? Why would I hire someone if I took a net loss from their work? Why would I hire someone if I only broke even from their work? There would be no point in anyone ever hiring anyone if they didn't profit off their work.

Plus you are the one who took the fucking risk..................but I digress.
 
Yes, it is how much. Your claim that it works, however, makes no sense if trickle down was unsuccessful. Duh. What 60% tax rate? Tell me about balance for unaffordable life saving drugs, bankruptcy gone wild from medical bills, parents unable to afford child care which follows the travesty that they cannot get paid leave to bond with the new born. A minimum wage that is a total joke, a tax system that gets largely regressive in a hurry rather than a consistent progressive system (think social security payment stops), and the biggest joke of all, “corporations are people.” From there, jump to our treatment of women, people of color, LGBT community, and of course, our failure to protect our right to vote. I love this country way too much to allow us to continue down the path to oligarchy and authoritarIan rule.

With all the shit you named above, why do you love this country? Seriously, it always gets me how people bitch about all this then come back with but I love this country. You had literally a 8 line rant about everything wrong with this place. Hell, move to Canada.

Explains why our borders are such a mess, with masses crossing INTO Mexico, I guess.
 
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So, how does closing down voting places in primarily black neighborhoods help to defend legal voting? How does voting by mail with the already tight restrictions, end up being eliminated? How does“drive by” voting, which is monitored just like in person voter’s ballots, get eliminated? How does shortening open times for in person voting help eliminate illegal voting? How does denying people the opportunity to vote on Sunday help protect us? ( Guess what ethnicity tends to vote heavily, in person, on Sunday’s) How does early voting provide a security risk? Good grief. Apparently you are one of very few who has not seen the outrage from neutral (League of Women Voters, for example) groups nation wide, the disgust in several court cases shown by judges who identify the Republican legislators as attacking democracy, the fact that the number of illegal votes is so small that you run out of decimal points, and that, finally, the lawsuits brought by Trumpers failed in every single court case to show any evidence of significant voter fraud.
I guess facts confuse you.

Nancy.......?
 
With all the shit you named above, why do you love this country? Seriously, it always gets me how people bitch about all this then come back with but I love this country. You had literally a 8 line rant about everything wrong with this place. Hell, move to Canada.

Explains why our borders are such a mess, with everybody/masses crossing INTO Mexico, I guess.
Yeah. Figured you were the “love it or leave it” type. Welcome to the 80’s!
 
Ahh the old trickle down theory eh? You realize that was a massive failure right? The biggest theft from American working people in history? It seems you'd prefer to have modern robber barons with more than enough money than they could spend in 1000 lifetimes while the poor, children and elderly starve.

Meanwhile you have companies like Exxon and Tyson price gouging the F out of the American public claiming "inflation" while at the same time having their highest quarterly profits IN HISTORY.

What the F is it with conservatives and their hatred of poor people and immigrants? They don't already have it hard enough? It's hilarious to me how conservative media convinces people to march together lockstep against the tyranny of SNAP.

I'll be anxiously awaiting your next "bootstrap" argument.

Bro, you're an econ guy. You understand math. There is a really delicate balance between CAGR of the economy/capital base and tax rates and because it is an insanely complicated multivariate model, agreement on a proper mix is impossible. But, ceteris paribus, you understand that at some level a higher tax rate is going to destroy GDP and investment CAGR. Over the course of a generation, the difference between a 3% CAGR and a 1% CAGR is immense. When you adjust for GDP growth, it really doesn't take much time for a lower tax rate to yield a higher net revenue for the government than a higher tax rate that stifles GDP growth.

Maybe this will prove to be an unpopular opinion because I know everyone wants to shit all over the government for everything, but I think all things considered the government has done a pretty good job of balancing GDP growth with tax rates in my lifetime. In 2001 collections were a hair under $2 trillion. For 2021 they are expected to come in at just a hair over $4 trillion. Doubled in 20 years. That's pretty damned good work, IMHO.

You strike me as a pretty smart guy, I'll bet you save money for your future and you probably have some exposure to the stock market. Those so-called "robber barons" have millions of coinvestors, middle class people just like you. They have created trillions of dollars of wealth that have flowed to millions of people with 401Ks or investment accounts that just sit there in passive funds. As Tesla stock gapped up over the past few years, you know that no one was actually made worse off because Elon Musk's paper wealth went up. To the contrary, you saw Tesla drive your passive stock funds up by a few percent just on its own. The wealth gap grew, but the increase in Tesla stock didn't make anyone worse off. The wealth gap closed dramatically in 2009 as people like Bill Gates or Warren Buffett saw paper losses totaling billions of dollars a day, but no one said "oh man, this is great that the wealth gap is closing." It cratered federal tax receipts.

You bolded "IN HISTORY" perhaps showing your disdain for corporate profit. Here's the thing, other than in times of massive deflationary spirals or absolute economic calamities, many publicly traded corporations are going to set new records for profits. Corporate profits tend to rise over time. That's why you are in the stock market.

Tax policy needs to be geared toward revenue generation, not to appease peoples' anger that they are proles. When you make it emotional, the results aren't good. That said, I would have no qualms with a far more aggressive estate tax that hits the oligarch class and actual collection mechanisms so you don't have dynastic families like the Cargills, Fords, Mars Family, etc. Let someone grow a $100 billion fortune, I don't care, just claw a bunch of it out when they die because net net that would probably generate a lot more revenue than tax hikes that cripple the growth of investments. I have no issue if "socialite" ceases to be a career option for the likes of Paris Hilton. But would Congress really have the balls to actually do that? I doubt it.
 
I love this country way too much to allow us to continue down the path to oligarchy and authoritarIan rule.

CuckFinn March 2020 until a few weeks ago: "Govern me harder daddy. Keep me safe. Everyone needs to buy everything from Amazon to #StopTheSpread."

CuckFinn today: "I'm anti-authoritarian."

Amazing transformation.
 
So, how does closing down voting places in primarily black neighborhoods help to defend legal voting? How does voting by mail with the already tight restrictions, end up being eliminated? How does“drive by” voting, which is monitored just like in person voter’s ballots, get eliminated? How does shortening open times for in person voting help eliminate illegal voting? How does denying people the opportunity to vote on Sunday help protect us? ( Guess what ethnicity tends to vote heavily, in person, on Sunday’s) How does early voting provide a security risk? Good grief. Apparently you are one of very few who has not seen the outrage from neutral (League of Women Voters, for example) groups nation wide, the disgust in several court cases shown by judges who identify the Republican legislators as attacking democracy, the fact that the number of illegal votes is so small that you run out of decimal points, and that, finally, the lawsuits brought by Trumpers failed in every single court case to show any evidence of significant voter fraud.
I guess facts confuse you.
I would need to see case by case examples of those things and then see the Republicans defense for why they did it to decide if those reasons made sense to me.

Serious question. Were you pissed in 2000 when Bush got handed the election? Or did you assume everything was 100% on the up and up? Were you pissed when Trump beat Hillary? Or did you assume he stole it?
 
I almost added in the risk aspect of hiring but decided to leave it out. It's a huge part of the equation. Especially in construction.

Yea, but you are the one taking the risk as an owner of a business or corporation, investing in the business to provide others jobs to make a living. My point.
 
Duh, communism works if done correctly too. The problem is it never is, there will always be corrupt people in charge. It's a fucking utopian idea that you're grasping on to.

I remember yes, 5% of the population is too lazy to work. Where did you get that figure? That is a head-in-the-sand bullshit figure you pulled out of your ass. What programs do they take advantage of, $100 per month of SNAP benefits? How does anybody live on that? SSA benefits? Nah can't be, they have to be legally disabled to get that. Unemployment? Nah, has time-limits. Welfare? Most families that qualify have a 60 month limit. All you do is post vague talking points with no actual evidence to back it up, only that which you've manufactured.

The most common fallacy I see from proponents of trickle-down theory is that an ultra wealthy person is required to create jobs. That is a lie. In fact, the only reason people are ultra wealthy is because they exploit 1) their workers 2) the environment 3) federal subsidies. One of the biggest problems with capitalism is that on average every worker is paid less than the value they produce. It's a side effect, likely intentional. People who work hard and smart should absolutely be rewarded

Unlike you, I actually look at independent sources. Here's a fun article about how Amazon's wealth "trickles down". I'm sure you'll ignore it though since it isn't right leaning:

https://www.consumerreports.org/cor...-these-communities-pay-the-price-a2554249208/

Oh, and let me add, it doesn't take much effort to get classified as "legally" disabled.
 

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