HawkeyeMike23
Banned
If only the Thunder had a "true pg", they might be pretty good then. LOL
who is the most overrated star in the nba?
- Thread starter Foval21
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who ever said they were bad...i said they would be better. that is the scary part they are this good now with a pg that turns it over as much as westbrook does. btw they havent played a team in the playoffs that is agressive on defense and forces tos yet...spurs do though.
Section136
Well-Known Member
Why? They are just old. Except for Rondo, and he is one of the best 2 or 3 PG's in the NBA.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Again please tell me how taking the ball out of Durant, Harden and Westbrook's hands makes the team better? How does forcing them to play ultra small ball to have their three best players on the floor with your "true pg" make them better? With their contract situation, where are they going to get a "true pg" who's even slightly above average?
trj
Well-Known Member
It is not about that a "true pg" knows when to jack up shots and when to get everyone else involved. From here on out you can't have Westbrook trying to figure that out the Thunder can't afford too many 9-25, 8 TO(s) stat lines from him. Durant should be the only guy with a green light to shoot anytime he wants.
You are right about the contract situation, given the current CBA you would have to talk someone like Nash into taking less money or it has to be a straight up Westbrook for Rondo type deal.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Adding Nash would not improve the Thunder. Trading Westbrook for Rondo or Paul was a legit discussion last year, at this point the Thunder wouldn't even entertain it. Westbrook might have a game like that every once in a while, he'll also have games like his last two. 28 pts and 1 turnover last night, and 37 points on Saturday while almost single handedly keeping the Thunder in the game.
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
You just need to stop. Your argument is stupid and holds no water. A few of the following player's assist to turnovers ratios are better, but Deron Williams, John Wall, Kevin Durant, Steve Nash, and Rajon Rondo all had just as many or more TOPG as compared to Westbrook. Plus, a total of 14 TO's in 9 games so far in the playoffs ain't too shabby. I'd say that what the Thunder are doing on offense right now is working out just fine and I wouldn't want to risk messing it up. I think the Thunder take it in 7, maybe 6.
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herkyattack
Well-Known Member
Seriously, this argument is stupid. A "true point guard" does not help the Thunder in any way, shape, or form. What is the point of this "true PG" bringing the ball up the floor, only to pass it to Westbrook, Durant, or Harden and watch them go one-on-one? Not to mention a part of what makes OKC so dangerous is their "spurtability", mainly because Westbrook is so explosive in the open court. Adding a "true PG" to the mix would only slow their offense down.
OKC does not need a true pg but to say that a true pg would slow their offense down is not neccessarily true. Look at a PG like Nash who plays uptempo, Rondo can push it. Just because a players is a pass first PG does not mean the offense has to a be a slow-down offense.
herkyattack
Well-Known Member
It would certainly slow them down as far as running a secondary break. Right now if Westbrook pushes and nothing is there, he can still create his own shot, because he is the one with the ball in his hands. If they brought in another point guard, Westbrook and Durant would have to get open on the wings, or come up top to get the ball, and then attack from there. It would just be wasted or unnecessary time/movement.
if kendall marshall could fall to the thunder...i would bet they would take him and start him and have westbrook at the 2. that pass 1st pg didnt slow down the unc fastbreak. westbrook is great. he would be better at the 2 guard. harden comes off the bench so it would only affect sefolosha (who should be a back up). give a true pg fisher's time (21 min per game) next yr but put him in the starting line up. it wouldnt affect their rotation as fisher plays pg now (but is old and not that good). if this team wouldnt turn the ball over as much they would be the best team in the league. to me pg is the best place to start for tos. plus a pass 1st pg could get their posts involved more. if you want put durant at the 4 some (small lineup) it would be similar to dirk for the mavs.
i like the thunder...they are the 1 nba team i watch guaranteed when they are on. i understand they havent turned it over (westbrook included) as much in the playoffs. they also havent played very good defensive teams (spurs are though).
i like the thunder...they are the 1 nba team i watch guaranteed when they are on. i understand they havent turned it over (westbrook included) as much in the playoffs. they also havent played very good defensive teams (spurs are though).
WapelloHawk
Member
If overrated means the guy who is supposed to be a star, but wouldn't be an early pick on my team if I was drafting...then Melo wins pretty easily in my book.
LeBron is an all-time great individual player, probably the best player in the NBA today. But to say he's better than Michael, then you just didn't watch Michael. If I was drafting an NBA team and could choose a player from any era in the first round, then Michael is pick # 1. Lots of other greats I'd want on my team...Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Jerry, Elgin, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Julius, both Malones, Stockton, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron. But every single one of those great players would defer to Michael in crunch time. That's because he is the GOAT.
The players listed played on 40 of the past 55 NBA champions.
LeBron is an all-time great individual player, probably the best player in the NBA today. But to say he's better than Michael, then you just didn't watch Michael. If I was drafting an NBA team and could choose a player from any era in the first round, then Michael is pick # 1. Lots of other greats I'd want on my team...Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Jerry, Elgin, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Julius, both Malones, Stockton, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron. But every single one of those great players would defer to Michael in crunch time. That's because he is the GOAT.
The players listed played on 40 of the past 55 NBA champions.
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So much right in this post. Well said.
trj
Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? This ain't the and1 tour, hot sauce isn't running point. Are you telling me that Durant can't pick and pop? All three guys can catch and shoot, more importantly all 3 guys shoot over the top of people. Westbrook's ability to dribble drive doesn't disappear if a "traditional" PG initiates the offense.
C'mon brah.
At some point Westbrook will have a bad shooting night and OKC will need a facilitator in their half court sets if he becomes that facilitator OKC will be fine. If he has a bad shooting night and continues to jack up shots then OKC will lose.
Spurtability = regular season......... half court offense = playoffs
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herkyattack
Well-Known Member
What are YOU talking about? Do you really think teams are going to let KD get many clean looks where he can just catch and shoot? And running a pick and roll or pick and pop with a PG that isn't a serious threat to shoot the ball allows the defense to easily defend it (by hedging, jamming, or going underneath it. Hell, some teams could even switch that), especially because it is a guard on guard screen.
No, but it makes the offense less efficient. Why make it more difficult for Westbrook to get his shots? Why have him waste more energy running off screens, where he could easily get beaten up by bigger, more physical 2-guards? Why pay someone money to get the ball into Westbrook's hands?
This is true for any team in the NBA. If there is a player you typically run the offense through, and he has a bad shooting night, you are going to lose if he keeps missing shots. If the Lakers had played any team besides New Orleans (or Charlotte) when Kobe started 0/15, they would have lost.
OKC averaged nearly 20 fastbreak ppg against the Lakers (who admittedly are a poor defensive transition team), but the Spurs aren't much better in that regard. But transition offense/defense plays an important role in every game, even in the playoffs. There are only a few ways to stop a team's transition game- score, send multiple people back on the shot (limiting your offensive rebound chances), or pound the ball inside. It's not like games are decided solely in the half court because it is the playoffs.
The Spurs are only a little above average defensively. They are hardly the defensive team they used to be.
thejumper5
Well-Known Member
There's an old saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Oklahoma City's offense is far from broke.
trj
Well-Known Member
Clean looks? KD can shoot over anybody he doesn't need space to get his shot off. Even someone who isn't a perimeter threat like Rondo can draw and kick off pick and role.
Running off screens? He isn't Ray Allen. Westbrook is a well put together 6'3, 190 lbs. gawd forbid he would have to move without the basketball.
He wouldn't expend anymore energy than he is already doing right now.Kobe isn't playing with anybody with KD's stroke. Will see, if Westbrook defers to KD if his shots are not falling.
yeah, the majority of playoff games are decided by the play in the half court.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Yes I've heard a lot of people say the Thunder's main problem is that they don't get the ball to Kendrick Perkins and Nick Collison enough? LOL do you even watch NBA basketball?
Did you see what the Spurs did to Chris Paul last round? Jump out over every pick and roll and constantly bring help prevent him from penetrating. They shut him down doing this. Chris Paul is the best pg in the league. If you throw an average "true pg" on the Thunder at point instead of Westbrook, the Spurs would love it. You just made the Thunder a ton easier to guard, now their two best penetrators (Harden and Westbrook) won't have the ball nearly as much.
I'm getting on this late, but in the small chance that no one has put Foval in his place for spewing blatantly false facts, I'll do it. Before I start, I will say that Blake is not my favorite player or even in my top 10-20. However, you have to give him credit where it's due. Unlike your baseless opinion, which is for some reason rampant among people these days, (I'm assuming its backlash for all his highlight reel dunks and lack on traditional big man moves) Blake is one of the better big men in the game, and considering he's only played two years, the sky is the limit.
Corrections to your assertions:
-He averages 20 pts and 10.9 rb a game, that's a pretty short list
-What world do you live in that a power forward averaging almost 11 RB/game is "bad"??
-He averages 3.2 assists/game, good for 5th best among PFs
You're basing your entire opinion on his lack of post moves, he likes to dunk a lot and he has a terrible FT%. The one thing I will agree with is he isn't a great defender. These days, big men are moving away from the lumbering centers and we're seeing more and more "athlete" types, especially at power forward. He's a great player and the three things I listed above can all be learned. Hell, you can learn to be a better defender if you want to as well. Don't confuse people liking his highlight dunks for overrating him. He is a good player with great potential. I think most people realize that.
Corrections to your assertions:
-He averages 20 pts and 10.9 rb a game, that's a pretty short list
-What world do you live in that a power forward averaging almost 11 RB/game is "bad"??
-He averages 3.2 assists/game, good for 5th best among PFs
You're basing your entire opinion on his lack of post moves, he likes to dunk a lot and he has a terrible FT%. The one thing I will agree with is he isn't a great defender. These days, big men are moving away from the lumbering centers and we're seeing more and more "athlete" types, especially at power forward. He's a great player and the three things I listed above can all be learned. Hell, you can learn to be a better defender if you want to as well. Don't confuse people liking his highlight dunks for overrating him. He is a good player with great potential. I think most people realize that.
