Urban Meyer - Can Someone Please Explain To Me?

ThunderHawk said:
This is true...but McMurphy's reporting looks so airtight (the documentation reminds of admissible evidentiary exhibits) that I don't see how Meyer weasels out of it.
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Yea, I think he took his time investigating this prior to reporting it. This is not a jock shock situation.
 
ModebaSan said:
I watched the Courtney Smith interview and saw the text messages that were put up on the screen. All she indicated to Shelley Meyer was that they were having problems and that she had enough and it had to stop. Not once did she indicate in the text messages anything about domestic violence. She only claimed there was domestic violence during the interview. How would Urban know anything if Shelley didnt know anything? If there were other text messages where she told Shelley Meyer about abuse, she should of posted them. Courtney Smith admitted she withheld coming right out and telling everyone because it would cause Zach to lose his job. That alone tells me that Urban Meyer knew there was a police investigation, but even Courtney Smith admitted that nothing came of it. She also said that she dropped the charges in the 2009 incident. If Courtney Smith would of fully disclosed everything that was going on, I believe Urban Meyer would of taken action sooner. I dont condone domestic violence, but if the victim isnt forthcoming with the full story, I dont see how Urban can be held responsible. When he did finally suspect something was going on, he fired the guy! Watch the interview yourself and listen to what she says and read the texts she posted. She was being vague as far as the level of abuse that was going on. As far as what the Meyers may have knew, they were just not getting along and were going to get a divorce. Nothing coming out of the investigation is on the police, not the Meyers. Did the admins at MSU sexually assault those women? No! But they got their heads chopped after the fact! If a chicken sees a fox kill another chicken, do you kill the chicken? No! You kill the fox!
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Thanks for the info. Interesting.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
I work right in the middle of academia at the U. Please quote me the federal or state statute that addresses state employees (typical not coaches contracts) and whether we are required to fire subordinates who are accused of domestic assaults/situations. I manage a staff of 18 right in the middle of academia, so I would really like to know. I have to be very careful how I manage my staff, interview candidates, make sure I follow proper procedures, etc., but, nobody ever told me that I would be canned if one of my staff had a charge or conviction in a private setting. I realize I am not a coach but you are referring to universities and staff as a whole.

My point is that it comes down to the language in the contract, not so much federal or state guidelines. Please quote me the federal law universities are to follow, concerning what we are discussing.

It's easy just to assume and spew chit out without anything to back up statements.
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Apparently, you would be required to report a "known violation" as part of Title IX. I'm not sure how a "known violation" is legally defined. Maybe it means you know of charges that were filed. I don't think it means you overheard something at the watercooler. What level of investigation is required if you have no proof of a violation? Apparently, according to the texts, UM questioned his employee and the employee denied everything. The police were involved several times between 2012 to 2015 and no charges were filed. He was finally charged in July 2017, albeit for criminal trespassing, and then he was promptly fired.
 
ModebaSan said:
I watched the Courtney Smith interview and saw the text messages that were put up on the screen. All she indicated to Shelley Meyer was that they were having problems and that she had enough and it had to stop. Not once did she indicate in the text messages anything about domestic violence. She only claimed there was domestic violence during the interview. How would Urban know anything if Shelley didnt know anything? If there were other text messages where she told Shelley Meyer about abuse, she should of posted them. Courtney Smith admitted she withheld coming right out and telling everyone because it would cause Zach to lose his job. That alone tells me that Urban Meyer knew there was a police investigation, but even Courtney Smith admitted that nothing came of it. She also said that she dropped the charges in the 2009 incident. If Courtney Smith would of fully disclosed everything that was going on, I believe Urban Meyer would of taken action sooner. I dont condone domestic violence, but if the victim isnt forthcoming with the full story, I dont see how Urban can be held responsible. When he did finally suspect something was going on, he fired the guy! Watch the interview yourself and listen to what she says and read the texts she posted. She was being vague as far as the level of abuse that was going on. As far as what the Meyers may have knew, they were just not getting along and were going to get a divorce. Nothing coming out of the investigation is on the police, not the Meyers. Did the admins at MSU sexually assault those women? No! But they got their heads chopped after the fact! If a chicken sees a fox kill another chicken, do you kill the chicken? No! You kill the fox!
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You need to read the story to get caught up.
A lot was left out. Photos sent to coaches wives, the "I will kill that bitch" text he sent, etc.
 
hwk23 said:
Apparently, you would be required to report a "known violation" as part of Title IX. I'm not sure how a "known violation" is legally defined. Maybe it means you know of charges that were filed. I don't think it means you overheard something at the watercooler. What level of investigation is required if you have no proof of a violation? Apparently, according to the texts, UM questioned his employee and the employee denied everything. The police were involved several times between 2012 to 2015 and charges were never filed in this case. He was finally charged in July 2017, albeit for criminal trespassing, and then he was promptly fired.
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I'm definitely checking into this more to make sure I have all my bases covered.
 
PCHawk said:
I agree that it needs to stop. My point is its a bad situation that you have to be the guy who forces it to stop or you might get fired. It's a weird situation to be in. Especially when there is a decent chance that 5 years down the road, you're still without a job and that couple is still together.
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There's always situations and I would hope there aren't to many bosses out there that are women beaters but if a person works for one that's very unfortunate.
 
Good discussion.
doughudd said:
You need to read the story to get caught up.
A lot was left out. Photos sent to coaches wives, the "I will kill that bitch" text he sent, etc.
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Wow, reading that report in full detail does change my perspective on things.

Kind of like I was meh about whether Paterno should be fired until I read the full report on Sandusky. Then you knew Patetno had to go.

Still you wonder if there is still a way Urban could somehow survive this. Now I am thinking no way he survives as OSU coach.
 
guffus said:
Good discussion.


Wow, reading that report in full detail does change my perspective on things.

Kind of like I was meh about whether Paterno should be fired until I read the full report on Sandusky. Then you knew Patetno had to go.

Still you wonder if there is still a way Urban could somehow survive this. Now I am thinking no way he survives as OSU coach.
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There is always a chance that Meyer survives this.

Lots of people will support the notion that Meyer didn't want to inject himself into someone else's personal life no matter how disgusting it was. Lots of people will place Meyer's ability to win over most issues of morality. Lots of people will consider Meyer's culpability of the technicality variety.

It is clear from gauging the public temperature that the war cry is for blood, but the public doesn't make the decision. There will be zero pressure from the NCAA on this matter. It truly will be an internal OSU decision. Something like 8 people will have the final word on Meyer's future. As any trial lawyer can attest, a small jury panel is extremely hard to predict. Who knows what these people will decide.

I for one will not count Meyer down and out until all the chips have fallen. However I will say the odds do not look good currently and Meyer has a short window to try and regain some public sympathy.
 
Adam said:
What legitimacy are you questioning? Those were obviously real dudes telling stories.
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Well Adam, you are pretty consistently questioning accusations. So, I'm wondering about the source. I haven't seen much comment if any anywhere about this.

One of the accusations is about "overdoing" weight lifting.
 
HawkGold said:
Well Adam, you are pretty consistently questioning accusations. So, I'm wondering about the source. I haven't seen much comment if any anywhere about this.

One of the accusations is about "overdoing" weight lifting.
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Well they are of course exactly that "accusations". If these young men were to give official statements to these accountings then it would become corroboration.

That said, I have very little doubt about what these men were recorded saying. Mostly because I am quite aware of this level of treatment at any number of football programs. Even 1 that wears black and gold.
 
PCHawk said:
I agree that it needs to stop. My point is its a bad situation that you have to be the guy who forces it to stop or you might get fired. It's a weird situation to be in. Especially when there is a decent chance that 5 years down the road, you're still without a job and that couple is still together.
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Or you could just cut loose the known wife beater.

Situation over.

And who gives a F if it's Earl Bruce's spawn? Didn't fOSU show Earl Bruce the door?
 
MelroseHawkins said:
My whole point is who cares if he knew or what he knew. Is he required to report on a private matter of an employee. Since it is a private matter and not associated with the football program, why doesn't Urban have the right to have the court system file a verdict and he fire the coach after the verdict if guilty? Why is it his responsibility to become the investigator, jury or judge in this case in a private matter? Just seems weird to me.
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I guess you just don't understand what being a mandatory reporter means, (I am one by the way) you don't get to choose what to report on not report. If you see it or know of it, even if its just a suspicion, you must report. Failure to do so makes you criminally neligent.
 
I think what's being lost in the weeds in this discussion is the fact that Urban Meyer has always been an arrogant, self-serving asshole, and that our beloved institution's gridiron warriors totally wrecked that prick's 2017 season on a beautiful fall afternoon at Kinnick stadium.
 
Adam said:
There is always a chance that Meyer survives this.

Lots of people will support the notion that Meyer didn't want to inject himself into someone else's personal life no matter how disgusting it was. Lots of people will place Meyer's ability to win over most issues of morality. Lots of people will consider Meyer's culpability of the technicality variety.

It is clear from gauging the public temperature that the war cry is for blood, but the public doesn't make the decision. There will be zero pressure from the NCAA on this matter. It truly will be an internal OSU decision. Something like 8 people will have the final word on Meyer's future. As any trial lawyer can attest, a small jury panel is extremely hard to predict. Who knows what these people will decide.

I for one will not count Meyer down and out until all the chips have fallen. However I will say the odds do not look good currently and Meyer has a short window to try and regain some public sympathy.
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Dude has a 38 million dolla buyout.

That'll be factor numero uno for fOSU. If they can't weasel out of that, he's going nowhere.
 
dahlhawk said:
I guess you just don't understand what being a mandatory reporter means, (I am one by the way) you don't get to choose what to report on not report. If you see it or know of it, even if its just a suspicion, you must report. Failure to do so makes you criminally neligent.
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Hence the terms "mandatory" and "reporter."
 
ThunderHawk said:
Dude has a 38 million dolla buyout.

That'll be factor numero uno for fOSU. If they can't weasel out of that, he's going nowhere.
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He's going nowhere then because Urban just tweeted he reported it which means he's not leaving without at least his $38 million.
 
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