Top 25 for 2012-13 season...ESPN's Katz

[OatesStache]

I would agree with you at most times, however, Iowa is losing one contributor from last season and are adding two top 100 recruits, two athletes and one player that plays relentlessly. It isn't like Iowa is losing Marble/Gatens/McCabe, three starters. They lose one and add five players.
The 4 on 5 excuse is reality though, not sure how it can be argued. It happened less this year, but it did happen. The lack of depth has been troubling Iowa for a very long time.

And assuming Burke stays at Michigan, then Indiana and Michigan can make the exact same claim, except they have netter players already, and they have better players coming in. Michigan St and Wisconsin are in VERY similar situations, except, again, they have better returning players. Ohio State is, well, Ohio State.

That's five teams who I would wager will be better than Iowa next year, based on talent alone (speaking nothing of the great coaching and experience those teams have). Maybe you guys vault over Purdue for 6th place, but you guys would need to improve greatly in consistency, defense, and winning on the road, something a great recruiting class probably won't help you with.

 

[sportstalent]

And assuming Burke stays at Michigan, then Indiana and Michigan can make the exact same claim, except they have netter players already, and they have better players coming in. Michigan St and Wisconsin are in VERY similar situations, except, again, they have better returning players. Ohio State is, well, Ohio State.

That's five teams who I would wager will be better than Iowa next year, based on talent alone (speaking nothing of the great coaching and experience those teams have). Maybe you guys vault over Purdue for 6th place, but you guys would need to improve greatly in consistency, defense, and winning on the road, something a great recruiting class probably won't help you with.

As I already said; in order for Iowa to finish 5th the returnees have to have big steps forward and not the freshman be the best players. 6th is very much in the cards today and if Iowa's returnees continue to improve as they did in one season they may be able to jump Wisconsin. I have predicted 5th place a lot and the ability is there, especially with the BIG schedule. The top four teams should remain unchanged, unless Burke leaves. I don't see any teams that finished outside the top 5, other than Iowa to make big strides...Minnesota maybe, but nobody else. Purdue is going to drop like a rock and a Burkeless UM team leaves them with no PG on their roster.
I think a great recruting class can help with all aspects of basketball. The athleticism and size Iowa has coming in will help on both ends of the floor and will help them on the road.

 

[herbyhawk]

And assuming Burke stays at Michigan, then Indiana and Michigan can make the exact same claim, except they have netter players already, and they have better players coming in. Michigan St and Wisconsin are in VERY similar situations, except, again, they have better returning players. Ohio State is, well, Ohio State.

That's five teams who I would wager will be better than Iowa next year, based on talent alone (speaking nothing of the great coaching and experience those teams have). Maybe you guys vault over Purdue for 6th place, but you guys would need to improve greatly in consistency, defense, and winning on the road, something a great recruiting class probably won't help you with.

you must be a Indiana fan. and you certainly see only the stars to make that claim.
its been a widespread theory that get 2 stars and thre solid players is enough to make a team very good.
in context Iowa will have their own star rated kids coming in, Gesell fill one of the 2 biggest needs, Woodbury fills the other, White a returning FAA, Basabe had a down year but he is a returning BT freshmen Teamer. Marble is solid as he did avery solid job as a PG playing out of position, go back to the Indiana board and brag up this ridiculus preseason poll.

 

[SpiderRico]

Here's the good news: We return everyone except Gatens.

Here's the bad news: Gatens was the only player who played any semblence of defense last year.

Bottom line: If we can't improve on our defense, we aren't making a move upward.....not in this league. You have to pack a defense when you go on the road, there's no two ways around it. We won one road game of significance last year, at Wisconsin, and we were only able to do it because they went something like 3-25 from 3 and it had nothing to do with our defense, it was a complete anamoly.

Given our offensive abilities, it doesn't have to be Wisconsin level defense....but it has to be better than it was this past year....a lot better!

 

[Section136]

you must be a Indiana fan. and you certainly see only the stars to make that claim.
its been a widespread theory that get 2 stars and thre solid players is enough to make a team very good.
in context Iowa will have their own star rated kids coming in, Gesell fill one of the 2 biggest needs, Woodbury fills the other, White a returning FAA, Basabe had a down year but he is a returning BT freshmen Teamer. Marble is solid as he did avery solid job as a PG playing out of position, go back to the Indiana board and brag up this ridiculus preseason poll.

There you go getting defensive again. Your crap gets old herby. Nobody can make a point that doesnt agree with you without you jumping down their throat.

 

[OatesStache]

you must be a Indiana fan. and you certainly see only the stars to make that claim.
its been a widespread theory that get 2 stars and thre solid players is enough to make a team very good.
in context Iowa will have their own star rated kids coming in, Gesell fill one of the 2 biggest needs, Woodbury fills the other, White a returning FAA, Basabe had a down year but he is a returning BT freshmen Teamer. Marble is solid as he did avery solid job as a PG playing out of position, go back to the Indiana board and brag up this ridiculus preseason poll.

I'm not an Indiana fan, but I do have a brain. Let me refresh you Herby, on your argument on why Iowa will compete next year...

also Iowa returns a freshmen AA, 6 out of the top 8 scorers, finished in a tie for 7th place at 8-10 as a team that lead the BT in scoring i believe

Well, IU returns a freshman AA (with more points and rebounds than your freshman AA), they return their 5 top scorers, including 4 scorers in double digits, they finished 5th in the Big 10 last year, three games ahead of Iowa, they finished ranked #13 with 27 wins and 2 NCAA tournament wins.

On top of all of that, they are bringing in a top 10 recruiting class including two top 20 recruits.

Tell me why I'm wrong Herby.

 

[Section136]

I'm not an Indiana fan, but I do have a brain. Let me refresh you Herby, on your argument on why Iowa will compete next year...



Well, IU returns a freshman AA (with more points and rebounds than your freshman AA), they return their 5 top scorers, including 4 scorers in double digits, they finished 5th in the Big 10 last year, three games ahead of Iowa, they finished ranked #13 with 27 wins and 2 NCAA tournament wins.

On top of all of that, they are bringing in a top 10 recruiting class including two top 20 recruits.

Tell me why I'm wrong Herby.

haha....herby gettin pwned again.

 

[herbyhawk]

Here's the good news: We return everyone except Gatens.

Here's the bad news: Gatens was the only player who played any semblence of defense last year.

Bottom line: If we can't improve on our defense, we aren't making a move upward.....not in this league. You have to pack a defense when you go on the road, there's no two ways around it. We won one road game of significance last year, at Wisconsin, and we were only able to do it because they went something like 3-25 from 3 and it had nothing to do with our defense, it was a complete anamoly.

Given our offensive abilities, it doesn't have to be Wisconsin level defense....but it has to be better than it was this past year....a lot better!

if it was a anomally as you clainm how did Iowa beat them Twice?

 

[clicheusername3]

if it was a anomally as you clainm how did Iowa beat them Twice?

 

[OatesStache]

haha....herby gettin pwned again.

Not gonna lie, that felt good. DOes the guy who runs this site pay Herby? He should, because he is the only reason I post here.

 

[SpiderRico]

if it was a anomally as you clainm how did Iowa beat them Twice?

The fact they went 3-25 was an anamoly, not the fact they won. My God you can't read worth a $hit, can you? My post was about our lack of defense and how it will continue to keep us down next year if it doesn't get fixed and that's what you took out of it?

Is there an ignore feature on this site?

 

[herbyhawk]

I'm not an Indiana fan, but I do have a brain. Let me refresh you Herby, on your argument on why Iowa will compete next year...



Well, IU returns a freshman AA (with more points and rebounds than your freshman AA), they return their 5 top scorers, including 4 scorers in double digits, they finished 5th in the Big 10 last year, three games ahead of Iowa, they finished ranked #13 with 27 wins and 2 NCAA tournament wins.

On top of all of that, they are bringing in a top 10 recruiting class including two top 20 recruits.

Tell me why I'm wrong Herby.

Zeller started from Day one and White did not start til after 20 games were over, and still made that FAA team, and as you keep telling everybody that Iowa has no talent, yet Iowa still finished in a tie for 7th with that same no talent team. and if Indiana has all that talent how did they Lose to such a bad Iowa team with no Talent. as it was pointed out before Iowa returns 6 out of the top 8 scorers off a team that lead the BT in scoring. as for defense with a solid post prescense the help defense will be limited and the perimeter defenders can stay on the perimeter rather than moving out of position to help out. the addition of a 7' post makes a huge improvement on the outside defense. the D will be better and the uptempo of scoring will improve. you just might see the same type of games that Mr. Davis had when he 1st got here. more bodies means the press and forcing of the tempo is easier to accomplish, and as far as superior coaching. i think Fran will more than prove he is a top level coach.

 

[hawkforlife9]

has taken a quick early stab at the probable rankings going into next season with assumptions about certain players leaving for the NBA...

1. IU
2. Louisville
3 Kansas
4. kentucky
5. OSU
6. Baylor
7. MSU
8. Michigan
21. Wis.

Bad news? Top 5 in the Big Ten are rock solid.
The good news? No obvious selection for Big Ten's #6 team.

So, Iowa,Ill,NW,PU and Minny can fight for that #6 and #7 slot and probable NCAA bids.

Meyers Leonard declared for the NBA tonite,so that removes one big man.

Fight for 6 or 7? WTF... fight for 1 or 2 with the talent we have coming in!!

 

[herbyhawk]

There you go getting defensive again. Your crap gets old herby. Nobody can make a point that doesnt agree with you without you jumping down their throat.

he is not stating a opinion he is stating it as fact, he has stated Iowa can't improve because of inferior talent and all that Superior talent Indiana has will make them suddenly a NT contender, when using talent to state one thing on the positive side and then use it to degrade another is not a off limits topic

 

[OatesStache]

Zeller started from Day one and White did not start til after 20 games were over, and still made that FAA team,

Even when White started, he did not match Zeller's numbers. Fact, not opinion.

and as you keep telling everybody that Iowa has no talent, yet Iowa still finished in a tie for 7th with that same no talent team.

I never made that claim and you know it. You are a liar and a bully.

and if Indiana has all that talent how did they Lose to such a bad Iowa team with no Talent.

Indiana also beat them once, and won 9 more games than Iowa. I think it is safe to say that despite going 1-1 in the season series, IU had more talent than Iowa.

as it was pointed out before Iowa returns 6 out of the top 8 scorers off a team that lead the BT in scoring.

Iowa was NOT the highest scoring team in the Big 10. Indiana scored 77.3 ppg, and Iowa scored 71.9 ppg. FACT not opinion.

as for defense with a solid post prescense the help defense will be limited and the perimeter defenders can stay on the perimeter rather than moving out of position to help out. the addition of a 7' post makes a huge improvement on the outside defense. the D will be better and the uptempo of scoring will improve.

Maybe, but you can't speculate like this after getting all pissy on me about stating opinion as fact (although it was stating facts as facts), and then make all of these assumptions.

 

[Section136]

he is not stating a opinion he is stating it as fact, he has stated Iowa can't improve because of inferior talent and all that Superior talent Indiana has will make them suddenly a NT contender, when using talent to state one thing on the positive side and then use it to degrade another is not a off limits topic

I never said you couldnt disagree and even argue with him to try and prove your point.

Its the way you go about it that makes you look like a fool.

 

[OatesStache]

With in 10 minutes, Herby said this:

the addition of a 7' post makes a huge improvement on the outside defense. the D will be better and the uptempo of scoring will improve. you just might see the same type of games that Mr. Davis had when he 1st got here. more bodies means the press and forcing of the tempo is easier to accomplish, and as far as superior coaching.

And then said this

he is not stating a opinion he is stating it as fact,

Not to mention he is a liar. What a sad, sad little man he is. I used to pity him because of his condition, now I just pity him because he's a sad bully who lies and cries when he can't keep up with the rest of us.

 

[herbyhawk]

Even when White started, he did not match Zeller's numbers. Fact, not opinion.



I never made that claim and you know it. You are a liar and a bully.



Indiana also beat them once, and won 9 more games than Iowa. I think it is safe to say that despite going 1-1 in the season series, IU had more talent than Iowa.



Iowa was NOT the highest scoring team in the Big 10. Indiana scored 77.3 ppg, and Iowa scored 71.9 ppg. FACT not opinion.



Maybe, but you can't speculate like this after getting all pissy on me about stating opinion as fact (although it was stating facts as facts), and then make all of these assumptions.

is that conference or totals games

 

[herbyhawk]

And assuming Burke stays at Michigan, then Indiana and Michigan can make the exact same claim, except they have netter players already, and they have better players coming in. Michigan St and Wisconsin are in VERY similar situations, except, again, they have better returning players. Ohio State is, well, Ohio State.

That's five teams who I would wager will be better than Iowa next year, based on talent alone (speaking nothing of the great coaching and experience those teams have). Maybe you guys vault over Purdue for 6th place, but you guys would need to improve greatly in consistency, defense, and winning on the road, something a great recruiting class probably won't help you with.

its not that hard to have expectation for a top 5 finish, this team will have more talent and more depth, to do better we have to beat NW, Purdue and Nebraska all losses at HOME.
that alone turns Iowas Conference record from 8-10 to a 11-7 record and if Iowa does not lose at home to Cambell and Clemson at Home turns this into a 21-10 record and a tie with Indiana's superior loade team for 5th and more than likely a BD invite and possibly a top 25 ranking. to expect this team with more talent and more depth to win more at home than they lost especially teams like Purdue, NW and Nebraska, and then you figure in Illinois comes to Carver this season, that 4 more games that CAN BE looked at as wins and not losses
as far as my comment about Woodbury having a big impact on the play of the defense how is that wrong?
having a 7'1 center to be the backstop against people getting by their man on the perimeter does improve the defense.

 

[herbyhawk]

as for the Zeller vs White ,
White as a starter his last 14 games avg'd 13.2 ppg and avg'd 6.2 rpg
Zeller as a starter the whole season avg'd 15.6 ppg and avg'd 6.6 rpg
boy those are some monster differences these were posted by another poster on TOS not my #'s as for season totals
Zeller had 15.6 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 1.3 apg, 1.7 t/o pg, 1.2 bpg
White had 11.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, .9 apg, 1.4 t/o pg, .7 bpg
a very staggering descrepancy in #'s