Top 25 for 2012-13 season...ESPN's Katz

all i am saying is Iowa finished with 18 wins 1-1 in the BT and 1-1 in the NIT, and hass the 21st best class by ESPN 2 players in the top 100 and 6 out of the teams top scorers and a Freshmen AA , and yet cannot be expected to be improve with that same group.
so i ask why is it other teams can be improved because of incoming talent and Iowa can't?
 
herbyhawk said:
all i am saying is Iowa finished with 18 wins 1-1 in the BT and 1-1 in the NIT, and hass the 21st best class by ESPN 2 players in the top 100 and 6 out of the teams top scorers and a Freshmen AA , and yet cannot be expected to be improve with that same group.
so i ask why is it other teams can be improved because of incoming talent and Iowa can't?
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The easiest answer is the teams that people are picking ahead of Iowa either have more talent returning, a stronger recruiting class or, the most likely option, a combination of both.

Its not that hard. Nobody is ripping Iowa and saying we arent going to be improved. In fact many people on here, including myself, think we will finish higher in the B1G and make the Big Dance next year.
 
because i thought it was directed at me as it seems most post like that are or have been, a built in reaction after all the ripping on my posts
 
herbyhawk said:
all i am saying is Iowa finished with 18 wins 1-1 in the BT and 1-1 in the NIT, and hass the 21st best class by ESPN 2 players in the top 100 and 6 out of the teams top scorers and a Freshmen AA , and yet cannot be expected to be improve with that same group.
so i ask why is it other teams can be improved because of incoming talent and Iowa can't?
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First of all, winning 18 games and a game in the NIT is not impressive, and it isn't something to brag about.

Second, no one said that Iowa can't improve, just that they are not improving so fast they are blowing by other teams.
 
i will say Iowa will finish 4th or 5th, this is not Lick nor Alford coaching, its not all about better or so called better recruits, there is just a tiny bit of coaching going on as well as teaching. as For Indiana jumping to #1 in the BT and getting a 1 or 2 seed in the dance means someone is tossing the caliber of players on these same team or incoming talent, for them to jump into that status, this is my main reason for questioning this early top 25 ranking, you cannot disregard the returning talent as well as incoming talent to bolster your arguement for one team ans then use that as a arguement to bolster the side that another team won't or can't improve.
besides how much difference is there between top 25 classes,
who knows if Meyer, Ingram and Clemmons were all 3*'s instead of 2*'s who knows how far Iowa jumps.
the way people talk, Meyer should be a 4*, that alone would make Iowa's class top 10
as on ESPN Maryland who jumped Iowa in the top 20 signed 3* Charles Mitchell pushing them to to #19. thats how close Iowa is from being in the the top 20
 
Dude, not one person has said that Iowa can't or won't improve. You have repeated that at least three times, despite the fact that no one has said it. If you want to discuss what I said, I am happy to defend it. However, I am not going to sit here and defend arguments that you're projecting on me (and others).

Also, one already signed recruit going from 3 stars to 4 stars would not result in a 10+ slot jump in the rankings. That is so far off, it's maddening. It really makes me question anything tiny thing you have said regarding recruiting.
 
OatesStache said:
First of all, winning 18 games and a game in the NIT is not impressive, and it isn't something to brag about.

Second, no one said that Iowa can't improve, just that they are not improving so fast they are blowing by other teams.
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wrong you can brag about that accomplishment.
after 5 years of not winning more than 15 games, in year two of Frans tenures he took this team from from back to back 20 loss seasons to a winning record of 18 games better than Alfords last season when he had 17 wins, also the last Torney win was in 2003 when Alford got a win in the NIT.
then you figure in how short on talent this team really was this last season, that is a amazing accomplishment
Cartwright struggle most of the season the 1st part with a hammy and a concussion
Basabe struggled with conditioning or whatever you wish to call it
Brommer and Archie nough said about their ability to contribute
Olaseni clearly needed time to develope
Oglesby slowly developed but needed strength and time to develope but he produced
May again bothered by injuries hurt
that left 4 healthy and solid players in
Marble
McCabe
Gatens
White who took 21 games to become a starter and ended up a freshmen AA
all this that Fran had to deal with and still had that success
what's not to brag about.
now to next year
Woodbury a top 50 player replaces Brommer
Meyer replaces Archie
Gesell a top 100 player and Clemmons replaces Cartwright
Ingram replaces Gatens the player not his stats as i feel Marble, White, Woodbury and Gesel will replace the scoring that Gatens had.
the lineup of Top 100 Gesell at point
Oglesby top 150 at 105 at guard
Marble will be the teams leading returning scorer at wing guard
White the 2nd returning leading scorer and freshmen AA at power forward
Woodbury top 50 and NBA mvp at center
this is not a lineup of chopped liver, the middle three may not have the *'s to impress people but they are very very good Basabe and McCabe will be Jrs
 
herbyhawk said:
wrong you can brag about that accomplishment.
after 5 years of not winning more than 15 games, in year two of Frans tenures he took this team from from back to back 20 loss seasons to a winning record of 18 games better than Alfords last season when he had 17 wins, also the last Torney win was in 2003 when Alford got a win in the NIT.
then you figure in how short on talent this team really was this last season, that is a amazing accomplishment
Cartwright struggle most of the season the 1st part with a hammy and a concussion
Basabe struggled with conditioning or whatever you wish to call it
Brommer and Archie nough said about their ability to contribute
Olaseni clearly needed time to develope
Oglesby slowly developed but needed strength and time to develope but he produced
May again bothered by injuries hurt
that left 4 healthy and solid players in
Marble
McCabe
Gatens
White who took 21 games to become a starter and ended up a freshmen AA
all this that Fran had to deal with and still had that success
what's not to brag about.
now to next year
Woodbury a top 50 player replaces Brommer
Meyer replaces Archie
Gesell a top 100 player and Clemmons replaces Cartwright
Ingram replaces Gatens the player not his stats as i feel Marble, White, Woodbury and Gesel will replace the scoring that Gatens had.
the lineup of Top 100 Gesell at point
Oglesby top 150 at 105 at guard
Marble will be the teams leading returning scorer at wing guard
White the 2nd returning leading scorer and freshmen AA at power forward
Woodbury top 50 and NBA mvp at center
this is not a lineup of chopped liver, the middle three may not have the *'s to impress people but they are very very good Basabe and McCabe will be Jrs
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Huh?
 
OatesStache said:
First of all, winning 18 games and a game in the NIT is not impressive, and it isn't something to brag about.

Second, no one said that Iowa can't improve, just that they are not improving so fast they are blowing by other teams.
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1. You do realize that Iowa lost to Campbell, Clemson, Nebraska and Penn State, right. Getting to the NIT is impressive considering Iowa really played 4 on 5 and 3 on 5, depending on who was on the floor. That statement is a testament to how talentless Iowa's overall roster was. Had Iowa played 5 possesions of defense in the Oregon game, they probably would have won. Now when you look at Iowa's season overall, the non-conference cost them a shot at the NCAA tournament. Iowa was an absolute mess in the non-conference, but something happened, Marble/White broke out and then it opened up Gatens a little bit and they played well in conference play, it is a shame it didn't happen earlier.

2. I agree, but the one thing about Iowa is that they return the players on their team who have the most basketball talent. This is not a knock on Gatens as I wish he were a junior. You look at a team like Purdue who has a top 25 class, but they lose Jackson, Hummel and Smith, two of those guys were their best players. Wisconsin loses Taylor, maybe they will be better off without him, but there will be an adjustment period. If Michigan loses Burke they are in trouble as they will have no PG on their roster.
Iowa has the 5th best class in the BIG, but they also return everybody minus Gatens and I think with Oglesby getting more minutes he will be a very good player in year two. Iowa has some holes yet, but they have a lot of established players returning. Top to bottom there are a lot of team losing their better players. The top 4 teams will probably remain the same because of the talent that is there to begin with, but the team below outside of Iowa/Minn lose a lot. The potential for Iowa to finish 5th will depend on how big a leap Marble/White/Oglesby/Basabe/McCabe can take in this offseason moreso than the freshman being stars. Gesell/Clemmons/Woodbury have to stabilize the two weakest positions Iowa has had for a very long time.
 
this , but i believe Marble had a concusion he was recovering from.
as for the Clemson loss i still don't think thar was bad loss, as they finished in 7th place at 8-8 in conference and 16-15 0verall, and i have never considered a loss to a ACC team a bad loss and its not like Iiowa was a top half of the BT Finisher the year before.
the Cambell loss was a bad loss,unforetunately
 
sportstalent said:
1. You do realize that Iowa lost to Campbell, Clemson, Nebraska and Penn State, right. Getting to the NIT is impressive considering Iowa really played 4 on 5 and 3 on 5, depending on who was on the floor.
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Yes I do know that, and in a way, it is impressive. However, that has nothing to do with the discussion we are having now. The discussion is about Iowa competing for the top 5 in the conference. Claiming that you won 18 games and one in the NIT is not a weapon you take into that argument.

And if you're going to make these "4 on 5" excuses, I have to point out that despite having the worst record in the tournament, you got a home game on a technicality, and that had a big part of gaining win 18.
 
here's to next year, now to watch NASCAR and Golf until football season rolls around, and follow recruiting updates. the countdown begins for BB nexy season 7 months and counting
 
OatesStache said:
Yes I do know that, and in a way, it is impressive. However, that has nothing to do with the discussion we are having now. The discussion is about Iowa competing for the top 5 in the conference. Claiming that you won 18 games and one in the NIT is not a weapon you take into that argument.

And if you're going to make these "4 on 5" excuses, I have to point out that despite having the worst record in the tournament, you got a home game on a technicality, and that had a big part of gaining win 18.
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I would agree with you at most times, however, Iowa is losing one contributor from last season and are adding two top 100 recruits, two athletes and one player that plays relentlessly. It isn't like Iowa is losing Marble/Gatens/McCabe, three starters. They lose one and add five players.
The 4 on 5 excuse is reality though, not sure how it can be argued. It happened less this year, but it did happen. The lack of depth has been troubling Iowa for a very long time.
 
OatesStache said:
Yes I do know that, and in a way, it is impressive. However, that has nothing to do with the discussion we are having now. The discussion is about Iowa competing for the top 5 in the conference. Claiming that you won 18 games and one in the NIT is not a weapon you take into that argument.

And if you're going to make these "4 on 5" excuses, I have to point out that despite having the worst record in the tournament, you got a home game on a technicality, and that had a big part of gaining win 18.
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how about 4 wins over team in the top 25 sweeping Wisconcin, Minnesota and the only time we played Michigan not to mention going fro 4 conference win the year before to doubling them to 8 and from a 10th place finish to a 7th place finish tie with NW, and 1 win in the BTT which after not winning one the previous year.
and i am not so sure Iowa would not have won at Dayton, after all they did beat Wisconcin on their home court where Wisconcin as a oustanding home court record, somebody else can point out their record to back this up
so the arguement is defenitely valid
 
herbyhawk said:
how about 4 wins over team in the top 25 sweeping Wisconcin, Minnesota and the only time we played Michigan not to mention going fro 4 conference win the year before to doubling them to 8 and from a 10th place finish to a 7th place finish tie with NW, and 1 win in the BTT which after not winning one the previous year.
and i am not so sure Iowa would not have won at Dayton, after all they did beat Wisconcin on their home court where Wisconcin as a oustanding home court record, somebody else can point out their record to back this up
so the arguement is defenitely valid
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Im not so sure we win at Dayton. We played pretty poorly away from Carver overall. Won at Nebraska, Minny, Wisky and beat Illinois in Indianapolis.

Just by a quick count we were 4-11 in road/neutral site games last year. 9 of those losses were by double digits.
 
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