This is gonna be a LOOONG season
- Thread starter HawksMN
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deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Fry, you aren't a Clone fan. If you and other Hawk fans think that PG is the only issue, then we just disagree. I disagree with Hawk fans all the time on things.
What I'm not going to do is let a Clown troll, Clown this board. If you think he is a Hawk fan, you are simply wrong.
Kennyfromminne
Well-Known Member
This team has many issues. It all starts with a hot head coach who can't recruit a serviceable point guard. His substitutions are mind boggling at best.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
WE HAVE ISSUES EVERYWHERE RIGHT NOW. To say it is only a PG issue is just dumb IMO.
If this is the direction you wanna take the troll be my guest. I'm not gonna be defending Fran, or anyone on this team with performances like that. I'm all ready to go scorched earth, because this shit bother me and pisses me off. It is just a trolling opportunity for a Clown troll like you.
Clown troll!
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Currently you are the only Clone troll that I know of on this board.
I see the loss by Iowa has spurred on your trolling of me. I don't mind really, I like going after trolls, so it don't bother me. Kind of weird that you don't at least pretend to be upset by losses, I figured you'd learn that act by now.
Fryowa
Administrator
In my post I said it's one of a myriad of issues. It is the biggest one by far, though.
What this team needs is Gesell up top and Bohannon at 2. He just doesn't make a Big Ten PG.
First time I saw them play, however I heard some stuff on the radio earlier in the season. Quick thoughts with some ISU lean, sorry that’s my team and I’m going to draw some comparisons here.
1. It isn’t a surprise that this team isn’t overly athletic. Teams like VT can give those teams real trouble. ISU hasn’t been terribly athletic in the backcourt the last few years either. Buzz Williams is a coach that likes to coach really tough in your face defense. Comparable coaches for me are Frank Martin, Billy Kennedy at A&M, etc. ISU played A&M last year and got flat embarrassed. So, while I think Iowa has some glaring weaknesses it was also a really bad matchup.
2. ISU came into this season with an undersized, good shooting PG in Donovan Jackson. I think he’s pretty similar to JBo. Great shooter when he can step into it but not the best at initiating offense. ISU moved him off the ball and it’s been great for him and the team. Now, I don’t think Iowa has a guy like Weiler-Babb to come in and take over the point. I think that’s something that needs addressed in the offseason. I think a grad transfer point guard is priority #1 for this staff.
3. I don’t get playing so many guys. There is so much time stoppage guys don’t need to play sub-30 MPG to be effective. Weiler-Babb for ISU played 3 games in 4 days in a tournament last week and played 119 of 120 minutes in the games and was highly effective. I don’t think Iowa benefits by playing so many guys. Pick your best 8 and roll with them. I don’t care if guys are unhappy. If they can’t get minutes and want minutes they should transfer.
4. The 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes are basically nuclear winter. These guys should be the primary contributors. The best player out of them is a walk-on in Baer. Most of them have transferred. I think there is definitely help coming (Weiskamp and P. McCaffery are great prospects) but again, it’s not where it needs to be in the backcourt.
Ultimately I don’t think this is fixable this season. I think there will probably be some fun moments but I can’t remotely expect an NCAA tourney birth at this point. Again, Fran should go Harbaugh and sleep on the best grad transfer PG’s floor if that’s what it takes.
1. It isn’t a surprise that this team isn’t overly athletic. Teams like VT can give those teams real trouble. ISU hasn’t been terribly athletic in the backcourt the last few years either. Buzz Williams is a coach that likes to coach really tough in your face defense. Comparable coaches for me are Frank Martin, Billy Kennedy at A&M, etc. ISU played A&M last year and got flat embarrassed. So, while I think Iowa has some glaring weaknesses it was also a really bad matchup.
2. ISU came into this season with an undersized, good shooting PG in Donovan Jackson. I think he’s pretty similar to JBo. Great shooter when he can step into it but not the best at initiating offense. ISU moved him off the ball and it’s been great for him and the team. Now, I don’t think Iowa has a guy like Weiler-Babb to come in and take over the point. I think that’s something that needs addressed in the offseason. I think a grad transfer point guard is priority #1 for this staff.
3. I don’t get playing so many guys. There is so much time stoppage guys don’t need to play sub-30 MPG to be effective. Weiler-Babb for ISU played 3 games in 4 days in a tournament last week and played 119 of 120 minutes in the games and was highly effective. I don’t think Iowa benefits by playing so many guys. Pick your best 8 and roll with them. I don’t care if guys are unhappy. If they can’t get minutes and want minutes they should transfer.
4. The 2014 and 2015 recruiting classes are basically nuclear winter. These guys should be the primary contributors. The best player out of them is a walk-on in Baer. Most of them have transferred. I think there is definitely help coming (Weiskamp and P. McCaffery are great prospects) but again, it’s not where it needs to be in the backcourt.
Ultimately I don’t think this is fixable this season. I think there will probably be some fun moments but I can’t remotely expect an NCAA tourney birth at this point. Again, Fran should go Harbaugh and sleep on the best grad transfer PG’s floor if that’s what it takes.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Bohannon wouldn't guard a 6'5 SG any better than he does a 6'1 PG. His defensive issues will be on the court no matter what.
Last thought - I know I'm not primarily an Iowa fan but I do root for Iowa. It is my sincere hope that Iowa gets this going here because if this season goes really off the rails (and it conceivably could) it would be extremely difficult for Fran's sons. Fran is better than McD at ISU, but I was not in favor of McD bringing in his kid because the fanbase had already turned against him, and that would make people's negative thoughts on the coach blow back a bit on Doug which wasn't fair to him. That said, I also didn't anticipate Doug being an all time college player but whatevs.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately this is spot on. I don't see this is being very fixable with the roster makeup. We took an already fairly unathletic team and added 3 more unathletic players to it this year. I'm not saying they are bad players. Just you need to have athletes as well.
BTW good post Bryce, not sure why that Clown CyTwins thinks he can pretend to be a Hawk fan and not get called out over here.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The team needs more athletes. You can mix in longer less athletic guys, but what you can't have is a bunch of them on the floor all the time. Jordan, Ellingson, Baer, Nunge, Pemsl, Kriener, Garza, none of these guys are athletes. Heck even Moss and Dailey aren't super athletic, they certainly aren't quick guys, more long athletes.
cockyhawkfan
Well-Known Member
I'm just curious what everyone saw going into the season, that helped create these lofty expectations, that are now pissing everyone off?
I agree the defense has got to get better, but they only gave up 79 points to a superior athletic team last night. 17 points in the 2nd half and lack of athletes that can find space is what killed us. Not to mention, absolutely no guard support. Ellingson needs to be cut loose. So does Wagner and we need to go hard after a PG, that can come in and create plays immediately next year. And I don't believe that's the only issue. Fran is trying to run with too much depth, which I believe doesn't allow anyone on the team to step up and take over when needed. And I'm sorry but Cook isn't that guy. Yes, he is a freak around the rim, but his ball skills and shooting aren't strong enough to carry an offense.I also don't think too much depth doesn't allows for any rhythm to be developed, which leads to the sloppy play we saw last night. We're also very young, which I hate to use an excuse, but it's valid in this case, when the athletes aren't fully developed.
But what the hell do I know. I know nothing about basketball! However, I'm also going to remain optimistic that it's not as bad as it has looked so far early on in the season.
I agree the defense has got to get better, but they only gave up 79 points to a superior athletic team last night. 17 points in the 2nd half and lack of athletes that can find space is what killed us. Not to mention, absolutely no guard support. Ellingson needs to be cut loose. So does Wagner and we need to go hard after a PG, that can come in and create plays immediately next year. And I don't believe that's the only issue. Fran is trying to run with too much depth, which I believe doesn't allow anyone on the team to step up and take over when needed. And I'm sorry but Cook isn't that guy. Yes, he is a freak around the rim, but his ball skills and shooting aren't strong enough to carry an offense.I also don't think too much depth doesn't allows for any rhythm to be developed, which leads to the sloppy play we saw last night. We're also very young, which I hate to use an excuse, but it's valid in this case, when the athletes aren't fully developed.
But what the hell do I know. I know nothing about basketball! However, I'm also going to remain optimistic that it's not as bad as it has looked so far early on in the season.
Fryowa
Administrator
Lol.
That's kind of throwing the baby out with the bath water, isn't it? Having Bohannon in your lineup with a capable PG takes off tons of pressure for one thing, and guess what? If Bohannon could shoot the way he does and play stout defense he wouldn't be playing at Iowa.
According to him Jordan is the point guard we needed and Fran got him. It was humongous addition by Fran to land him instead of players like Carr, Moore, Winston and others. Wait until Saturday and watch Carr and think that deanvogs said Jordan was a better point guard than him.
earlhamhawk
Well-Known Member
This.......basketball is a team sport, changeour point guard and the result last would not have been a win,the remaining parts 4/5,s of the team still play bad defense and have a horrible shooting half.its early hopefully the d will improve
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Which is why I stated before that if we had a good athletic pg, JBo would best be serving the role of Ellingson, since Brady can't even hit shots on a consistent basis. We'll see how the B1G stacks up with JBo, maybe they won't be as quick.....
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Tell that to Michigan St who took a loss to a Lickliter team. Score in the low 50's. Lickliter's teams often held opponents under 60 or around there. Maybe Iowa can hire him just to coach D!
Everyone knows our point guard situation is the main problem for this team except deanvogs. Fran needs to be working his connections and targeting graduate transfer point guards immediately or next year could be his last.
If Fran decided to run the clock down to zero before throwing up a 3 every time, he would hold a lot of teams in the 50s too. It's the pace of the game that makes Fran look terrible on defense (even tho they are actually terrible this year and last) and ) Licks teams look good.
