The Fran Conundrum

lightning1 said:
14, I believe. But it doesn't matter because again, he needs to put a lot of weight on in a short amount of time, to be effective in a P5 conference.
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It was 4 years ago. Not sure how old he is now. My original point is theoretically, it's a lot easier for someone who had a setback like that to gain weight than it is for your average kid with no setback. There is no arguing that he has to be behind where he should naturally be. I think he has already gained some hasn't he?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I think this is where hawkeye fans & this group of players (that’s another story) get themselves into trouble. If we somehow made the tournament next year it means nothing about the following year. What if Cook goes pro after his junior year? We may still have enough to make it but who knows.

Take this year for example, I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams would have imagined this team was going to be this bad. A couple injuries, poor coaching, poor chemistry and here we are.

Nothing is given. Injuries can happen. What if we draw a really tough B1G schedule that year? I guess the point is, I don’t see us having so much talent that we would be able to sit there and say we are a lock for the tournament just because we made it the year before.
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All due respect nike but I think you are confusing Possibility with Probability...
 
lightning1 said:
14, I believe. But it doesn't matter because again, he needs to put a lot of weight on in a short amount of time, to be effective in a P5 conference.
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So you wouldn't take a Steph Curry or a Kevin Durant go back to a Allen Iverson or a Reggie Miller... Because they are too skinny????

I think you mean Patrick better work on Strength... that is what he NEEDS to play P5 and more importantly BIG Basketball...

So tired of hearing guys HAVE to gain weight....
 
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DBQHAWK85 said:
So you wouldn't take a Steph Curry or a Kevin Durant go back to a Allen Iverson or a Reggie Miller... Because they are too skinny????

I think you mean Patrick better work on Strength... that is what he NEEDS to play P5 and more importantly BIG Basketball...

So tired of hearing guys HAVE to gain weight....
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We are talking about P5 athletics! Of COURSE I am talking about strength! JFC! Is that where we are? Where the only argument you have is to nit pick words to make yourself feel better? Get lost.
 
PCHawk said:
Of course the talent level is his fault. I thought this conversation was based on your question "if Fran brings in good talent". My post was a response to that question. Come on man. I expect better from you. :)

Of all the talk about point guard recruiting, bad defense, winning close games, and calling timeouts, this is my biggest unanswered question about Fran. Can he only win with good instate talent? I really don't know that answer yet.

The way he gets in early on players who end up blowing up makes me think he will be fine there. But it's far from a given at this point. Also Cook, Nunge, and Garza appear to be the quality of recruits we need to be good, and those are his newest, and therefore most relevant examples of the quality of out of state guys he will get.

This is why the 2019 class is so important to me to figure out the answer to that question. If he brings in one or two good out of state players, then that's a great sign. If he brings in Carton and Lacure, then that's great for the team so I will be happy, but the question will have to go unanswered for another year.
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I remember the weekend that Garza and Nunge commited a lot of people were confused why we were bringing in two big guys when we already had a bunch of bigs. It was and is a fair point, but at the same time I think both Nunge and Garza are going to be really good players and are good gets. That’s the problem with all of this, it’s not cut & dry or easy.

At the end of the day it’s results that matter. But it sounds like you are saying that if Fran brings in a great 19 class, even if we don’t make the tournament next year you would be willing to keep him around. That’s where this whole thing gets dicey, because I agree with you that you don’t want to blow up a big time class, but at the same time I don’t know how you can keep Fran after missing the tournament 3 years in a row this late into his tenure.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I think this is where hawkeye fans & this group of players (that’s another story) get themselves into trouble. If we somehow made the tournament next year it means nothing about the following year. What if Cook goes pro after his junior year? We may still have enough to make it but who knows.

Take this year for example, I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams would have imagined this team was going to be this bad. A couple injuries, poor coaching, poor chemistry and here we are.

Nothing is given. Injuries can happen. What if we draw a really tough B1G schedule that year? I guess the point is, I don’t see us having so much talent that we would be able to sit there and say we are a lock for the tournament just because we made it the year before.
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If I’m cook I’m asking pro scouts about coming out after this year. Why would he want to stay for this S show
 
lightning1 said:
I honestly think he could be ranked that high if he had 30 or 40 more pounds of muscle on him. He's about as weak as Uthoff was when he was in high school. Except Uthoff had a better outside shot.
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YEAH... nit picking.... to hell with all those other skills if he just had 30 to 40 more pounds then you would be good with him.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I remember the weekend that Garza and Nunge commited a lot of people were confused why we were bringing in two big guys when we already had a bunch of bigs. It was and is a fair point, but at the same time I think both Nunge and Garza are going to be really good players and are good gets. That’s the problem with all of this, it’s not cut & dry or easy.

At the end of the day it’s results that matter. But it sounds like you are saying that if Fran brings in a great 19 class, even if we don’t make the tournament next year you would be willing to keep him around. That’s where this whole thing gets dicey, because I agree with you that you don’t want to blow up a big time class, but at the same time I don’t know how you can keep Fran after missing the tournament 3 years in a row this late into his tenure.
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It would have to be a damn good class for me to want to keep him after missing the tournament next year. It would probably have to be 2 out of state top 75 guys.
 
DBQHAWK85 said:
Fran and his assistants also need to be held accountable for this ridiculous roster makeup. I saw it earlier in this thread and it is very understated IMO... even an average talent level but TRUE PG would make this team much better. Having a love affair with stretch 4's and 5's and supposed long athletic 3's is okay. I even prescribe to the create mismatch opportunities theory but wake up FRAN it seems those mismatches are back firing on YOU...

Lets call this what really is...

A VERY DESTRUCTIVE AND UNHEALTHY OBSESSION !!!

five 5 star forwards will almost never beat a solid team. In fact the solid team will make those 5 stars look foolish most of the time.

SOUND FAMILIAR !!!
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Why are we spending energy on stealing a northern Kentucky recruit? We are trying to compete for league titles right? This recruiting doesn’t make any sense
 
dwghawk said:
I agree with a lot of this. I will also say the biggest short comings of this team is, they lack a team leader on the floor. None of the existing players have stepped up to fill that roll. Maybe in the locker room and at practice but not during the game. I prefer it to be the point guard and it doesn't have to be the second coming of Ronnie Lester. An Andre Woolridge type player would help this team set up the offense and defense. Surely Fran can find a PG capable of filling that role. Val Barnes, Dean Oliver, Kenny Arnold, Jeff Moe and Jeff Horner. Those types of players are out there. Find a solid PG that can lead a team on the floor. Quit looking for that super star PG that will never come to Iowa.
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Did you not mention BJ Armstrong because he went pro?
 
InGoodCo said:
This is off the deep end. I think this the Freshman and Sophomore class, along with more guards can compete for the NCAA tournament next year. How can you say that these guys are peaking at age 20? Had Uthoff peaked after his Sophomore year when he was flat out not good? Jok ? White? None of those guys were playing any better then the guys you listed that have peaked at this point in their careers. They played on better teams, with better upperclassman. How are the McCaffery boys already over rated? Connor hasn't played but for a few minutes this season while being injured and sick. Where in the world would that even be something that can be gleaned at this point? Patrick is ranked as a borderline 5 star before his junior year of HS.

Weiskamp may have committed to the school, but firing the HC right before he arrives would definitely open his mind I imagine.

Fran deserves all the heat he's getting, I am all about dishing it out. Disgusted...but, ya can't let it swing that far to the side imo
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We really haven’t seen enough of Fran’s boys yet to make as harsh of judgement on them like what has been expressed here on this thread, So I have to agree with GOOD on that point.
 
BigD said:
Did you not mention BJ Armstrong because he went pro?
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Sort of. Personally I think BJ Armstrong and Ronnie Lester were the best guards to ever play at Iowa. I'm sure I might get an argument from some of the old dudes from the Ralph Miller days though. I would love to see Iowa come up with another BJ Armstrong. I just think a good solid senior PG with some leadership ability could make a huge difference in this team. Wouldn't take a BJ Armstrong in my opinion. Fran needs to find that guy soon.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Did you see my above post about Connor? At one point he was ranked very high. Did he regress, did other players pass him by, or was he slightly overrated? Probably a combination.

My guess is Pat will end up ranked in the 75-150 level when all is said and done.
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Could absolutely happen. But if a recruit falls 45-120 spots in one year without health or legal problems, then I see almost zero value in recruiting services rating kids prior to their senior season.
 
BigD said:
We really haven’t seen enough of Fran’s boys yet to make as harsh of judgement on them like what has been expressed here on this thread, So I have to agree with GOOD on that point.
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Yeah, BigD......

I hope that none of our children or anyone of us has a brain tumor. The physical, emotional and psychological effects cannot be measured. Patrick McCaffrey has survived this deadly condition and is strong and talented enough to gain national recognition for his abilities. When I watch his video clips I don't think I am watching Fran and Marge's son. I see a very talented basketball player who still has another year in high school to refine and develop his natural talent......

Anyone who has even the slightest smidgeon of basketball knowledge would see that talent. He is obviously a serious threat offensively. He is extremely quick to the basket, although not as explosive as Tyler Cook. He will certainly help the Hawks. Tyler is the only one who can create his own shot right now. When Joe arrives we will have two explosive threats on the floor. A year later Patrick will arrive and we will be a force offensively.....

I was very impressed with the leadership and control of Connor when he was in the game, We were a different team with him running the show. He understands the game better than any other player on the roster right now. This was playing far from full strength. When he recovers and heals completely, he will make the Hawks a far better team. He is not an official point guard but is quite capable of playing that position, The ball moves when he is at the helm. He doesn't throw the ball away when no one is open. He dribbles around until there is an opening.....

His defense is solid as evidenced during one sequence in the Colorado game. He was covering their talented point guard very tightly so that he was unable to receive a pass. This is one of the most important aspects of playing D, covering your man so tightly that he is a nonfactor on offense because he doesn't have possession of the ball.....

As far as recruiting Luka and Jack. We had to take them when they were available. They will improve as they gain experience. Garza already is playing more comfortably, adjusting to his role on the team as shown in the Ohio State game. Jack is also coming along well, and is playing good D on the perimeter most times. Would I like to have a talented Official point guard? Of course, I would. That is the number position we need to fill. Perhaps DJ Carton will play for the Hawks. We better get him onboard. If we do, we will have a strong team that will contend for the Big Championship.....

Just a matter of time. I am just going to relax and watch for the current team to improve and enjoy the upsets coming up.....

Not certain that a victory looms at Maryland tonight though.....

Plus we do Not play well in Champaign.....

It is what it is.....

:cool:
 
Right now, the Buckeyes, at home, are destroying the #1 Spartans, leading by 21 almost five minutes into the second half.....
 
dwghawk said:
Sort of. Personally I think BJ Armstrong and Ronnie Lester were the best guards to ever play at Iowa. I'm sure I might get an argument from some of the old dudes from the Ralph Miller days though. I would love to see Iowa come up with another BJ Armstrong. I just think a good solid senior PG with some leadership ability could make a huge difference in this team. Wouldn't take a BJ Armstrong in my opinion. Fran needs to find that guy soon.
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Pray to the Gods that DJ is headed our way.....

:cool:
 
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