The Fran Conundrum

PCHawk said:
His family all has good builds so that's promising. If he is overly skinny because of cancer, he will gain faster than a kid who is just naturally meant to be skinny.
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He's 3 years removed from the cancer diagnosis. I'm not sure how that effects a young man but it hardly matters for this discussion. He needs to gain weight. In a hurry. Otherwise he'll be a JR in college before he can make a difference in the BIG conference.
 
PCHawk said:
We all think Fran has stuck out on point guards, but maybe he knows something we don't about his son. Maybe Connor is the next Jeff Horner. He was good enough to finish near the top of the conference. Then again, maybe his judgement is clouded because it's his son too. We don't know yet.
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Conner is a capable PG. That's hardly the only issue that Fran has, at present.
 
tksirius said:
I'll add on to this that Patrick McCaffery is the most overrated recruit in the country.
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I have no idea how good he is, but he's a very important person in our recruiting of other players. From the sound of it, he's really trying to Eno Benjamin/Jake Christensen a lot of players to Iowa, which, in my eyes makes him more valuable than whatever his ranking is/should be.
 
I dont think there's any doubt this team will be better next year. And even better the following year. The issue is, are we satisfied being a program that misses the NCAA tournament 2 out of every 4 or 5 years? Because that's what we have with Fran. 3 NCAA trips (Rd of 32 loss is the highlight) in 8 years.
 
I think most in this thread, when talking about next year, are completely forgetting that we will lose Uhl, which should totally change people's outlooks/predictions.
 
lightning1 said:
I dont think there's any doubt this team will be better next year. And even better the following year. The issue is, are we satisfied being a program that misses the NCAA tournament 2 out of every 4 or 5 years? Because that's what we have with Fran. 3 NCAA trips (Rd of 32 loss is the highlight) in 8 years.
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If we are better next year and make the tourney (highly in question right now) then we will obviously make it the year after. Then the year after that, we will have Nunge and Garza as seniors, Wieskamp and Connor as juniors, and Patrick as a freshman. That's a pretty solid core to potentially go to the tourney again. If we don't go next year, I'm ready to give up on Fran anyway. But if we do, we are set up pretty good for the next few years.
 
lightning1 said:
He's 3 years removed from the cancer diagnosis. I'm not sure how that effects a young man but it hardly matters for this discussion. He needs to gain weight. In a hurry. Otherwise he'll be a JR in college before he can make a difference in the BIG conference.
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That's a pretty big time in a kids life to be getting smaller when they should be getting bigger.
 
PCHawk said:
If we are better next year and make the tourney (highly in question right now) then we will obviously make it the year after. Then the year after that, we will have Nunge and Garza as seniors, Wieskamp and Connor as juniors, and Patrick as a freshman. That's a pretty solid core to potentially go to the tourney again. If we don't go next year, I'm ready to give up on Fran anyway. But if we do, we are set up pretty good for the next few years.
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I think this is where hawkeye fans & this group of players (that’s another story) get themselves into trouble. If we somehow made the tournament next year it means nothing about the following year. What if Cook goes pro after his junior year? We may still have enough to make it but who knows.

Take this year for example, I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams would have imagined this team was going to be this bad. A couple injuries, poor coaching, poor chemistry and here we are.

Nothing is given. Injuries can happen. What if we draw a really tough B1G schedule that year? I guess the point is, I don’t see us having so much talent that we would be able to sit there and say we are a lock for the tournament just because we made it the year before.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I think this is where hawkeye fans & this group of players (that’s another story) get themselves into trouble. If we somehow made the tournament next year it means nothing about the following year. What if Cook goes pro after his junior year? We may still have enough to make it but who knows.

Take this year for example, I don’t think anyone in their wildest dreams would have imagined this team was going to be this bad. A couple injuries, poor coaching, poor chemistry and here we are.

Nothing is given. Injuries can happen. What if we draw a really tough B1G schedule that year? I guess the point is, I don’t see us having so much talent that we would be able to sit there and say we are a lock for the tournament just because we made it the year before.
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I agree it's never a lock. But odds would be really good. Too good to want to get rid of a coach before the season starts.

You are actually doing the complete opposite in this thread. Assuming that since we won't make it this year, we won't make it next year either.
 
PCHawk said:
I agree it's never a lock. But odds would be really good. Too good to want to get rid of a coach before the season starts.

You are actually doing the complete opposite in this thread. Assuming that since we won't make it this year, we won't make it next year either.
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A turnaround could happen. I think my bigger concern would be will Fran ever change? Will he ever shorten a rotation, will he ever use a timeout to stop runs, will he emphasize defense and not turning over the basketball? It doesn’t appear likely since it hasn’t happened yet, but this year has really brought those problems to the forefront.

I guess the first post I responded to got me thinking. Say we are a bubble team next year but miss the tournament. Won’t many posters say the same thing they are saying now? Look at what we have returning, Pat coming in with who ever else we end up signing, we are set up to have a pretty good team for the next few years. Why move on from Fran now because who knows what will happen with the 19 class? Say we land Carton, what then?

My point being when does it end? We’d be through year 9 with three tournaments to show. The 2019 recruiting class is extremely important for this program, so part of me wouldn’t want to blow that up, but it would be hard to keep Fran around without results. Again that’s why it’s quite the conundrum. Bottom line is next year is going to be extremely important for Fran as we know Barta isn’t going to do anything this year.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
A turnaround could happen. I think my bigger concern would be will Fran ever change? Will he ever shorten a rotation, will he ever use a timeout to stop runs, will he emphasize defense and not turning over the basketball? It doesn’t appear likely since it hasn’t happened yet, but this year has really brought those problems to the forefront.

I guess the first post I responded to got me thinking. Say we are a bubble team next year but miss the tournament. Won’t many posters say the same thing they are saying now? Look at what we have returning, Pat coming in with who ever else we end up signing, we are set up to have a pretty good team for the next few years. Why move on from Fran now because who knows what will happen with the 19 class? Say we land Carton, what then?

My point being when does it end? We’d be through year 9 with three tournaments to show. The 2019 recruiting class is extremely important for this program, so part of me wouldn’t want to blow that up, but it would be hard to keep Fran around without results. Again that’s why it’s quite the conundrum. Bottom line is next year is going to be extremely important for Fran as we know Barta isn’t going to do anything this year.
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That would be a toughy. Imagine if he has 3 top 100 guys signed in 19. Players win games man. This year we don't have players to win so everything the coach does is scrutinized. Fans ALWAYS think their coach sucks when they lose. When Kentucky lost in the first round of the NIT, their fans were saying Calipari has lost it. After one bad season and everything he accomplished.

Trust me, I'm questioning every single thing Fran is doing now too. But then I realize he has already won coaching like that with players that weren't overly special. If he brings in "pretty good" players, we are round of 32 type teams (pretty typical for every coach). So if he brings in better players....
 
NikeHawk21 said:
A turnaround could happen. I think my bigger concern would be will Fran ever change? Will he ever shorten a rotation, will he ever use a timeout to stop runs, will he emphasize defense and not turning over the basketball? It doesn’t appear likely since it hasn’t happened yet, but this year has really brought those problems to the forefront.

I guess the first post I responded to got me thinking. Say we are a bubble team next year but miss the tournament. Won’t many posters say the same thing they are saying now? Look at what we have returning, Pat coming in with who ever else we end up signing, we are set up to have a pretty good team for the next few years. Why move on from Fran now because who knows what will happen with the 19 class? Say we land Carton, what then?

My point being when does it end? We’d be through year 9 with three tournaments to show. The 2019 recruiting class is extremely important for this program, so part of me wouldn’t want to blow that up, but it would be hard to keep Fran around without results. Again that’s why it’s quite the conundrum. Bottom line is next year is going to be extremely important for Fran as we know Barta isn’t going to do anything this year.
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I don't see a change from Fran coming unless there is a shakeup on the coaching staff or a lot of player turnover (transfers). A new person or two on the coaching staff may give a different perspective and make Fran aware that changes are needed. Also, the players are hearing the same voices who believe in their system, so it's hard to believe something will change in the near future (especially with little player turnover scheduled to happen this year).
 
PCHawk said:
That would be a toughy. Imagine if he has 3 top 100 guys signed in 19. Players win games man. This year we don't have players to win so everything the coach does is scrutinized. Fans ALWAYS think their coach sucks when they lose. When Kentucky lost in the first round of the NIT, their fans were saying Calipari has lost it. After one bad season and everything he accomplished.

Trust me, I'm questioning every single thing Fran is doing now too. But then I realize he has already won coaching like that with players that weren't overly special. If he brings in "pretty good" players, we are round of 32 type teams (pretty typical for every coach). So if he brings in better players....
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And of course the counter to that would be Fran is the one to blame that we don’t have players in year 8.

But I don’t want to go there. Here is a thought I had the other day. Is the success of Iowa hoops under Fran just going to be a product of what the state of Iowa is producing in terms of basketball talent? We had a nice run with Woody, Gesell (Ik technically Neb), Uthoff, Oglesby, and Jok. The talent we have seen in the years since is Baer, Bohannon, Pemsl, and Kriener, certainly not enough to talent there to compete with that previous group. Now you are saying with Joe W, Pat, Connor, maybe Carton, we would have a pretty nice core surrounded by the others.

Point being, shouldn’t we expect any coach here at Iowa to be able to retain the instate talent for the most part?
 
NikeHawk21 said:
And of course the counter to that would be Fran is the one to blame that we don’t have players in year 8.

But I don’t want to go there. Here is a thought I had the other day. Is the success of Iowa hoops under Fran just going to be a product of what the state of Iowa is producing in terms of basketball talent? We had a nice run with Woody, Gesell (Ik technically Neb), Uthoff, Oglesby, and Jok. The talent we have seen in the years since is Baer, Bohannon, Pemsl, and Kriener, certainly not enough to talent there to compete with that previous group. Now you are saying with Joe W, Pat, Connor, maybe Carton, we would have a pretty nice core surrounded by the others.

Point being, shouldn’t we expect any coach here at Iowa to be able to retain the instate talent for the most part?
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Of course the talent level is his fault. I thought this conversation was based on your question "if Fran brings in good talent". My post was a response to that question. Come on man. I expect better from you. :)

Of all the talk about point guard recruiting, bad defense, winning close games, and calling timeouts, this is my biggest unanswered question about Fran. Can he only win with good instate talent? I really don't know that answer yet.

The way he gets in early on players who end up blowing up makes me think he will be fine there. But it's far from a given at this point. Also Cook, Nunge, and Garza appear to be the quality of recruits we need to be good, and those are his newest, and therefore most relevant examples of the quality of out of state guys he will get.

This is why the 2019 class is so important to me to figure out the answer to that question. If he brings in one or two good out of state players, then that's a great sign. If he brings in Carton and Lacure, then that's great for the team so I will be happy, but the question will have to go unanswered for another year.
 
smitharooney said:
I always go to rivals.com and look to see if the top programs in the state offered our recruits schollys. Uhl, Ellingson, Dailey , Moss plus Fredrick the player we have from Kentucky coming in next year never received offers from their own back yard. Garza and Cook are the only legit out of state recruits we have on the entire roster. The assistants need to be shit canned
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Fran and his assistants also need to be held accountable for this ridiculous roster makeup. I saw it earlier in this thread and it is very understated IMO... even an average talent level but TRUE PG would make this team much better. Having a love affair with stretch 4's and 5's and supposed long athletic 3's is okay. I even prescribe to the create mismatch opportunities theory but wake up FRAN it seems those mismatches are back firing on YOU...

Lets call this what really is...

A VERY DESTRUCTIVE AND UNHEALTHY OBSESSION !!!

five 5 star forwards will almost never beat a solid team. In fact the solid team will make those 5 stars look foolish most of the time.

SOUND FAMILIAR !!!
 
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