I agree.
So let's look at McCaffrey' recruiting
- Thread starter longtimer
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That depends on where your program is. If it's above average before a coach starts, an average coach shouldn't get that much time. You want to try to keep your program at the top. If it's at its lowest low in the history of the program before a coach starts, you might want to maintain average for awhile before you make a move. It's possible to zoom from the basement to the penthouse, but it's very unlikely. Trying to do that will burn you way more often that it will succeed.
theboat
Well-Known Member
So what is a while?
If this season continues like this he won’t be fired even though he should. But an ultimatum needs to be on the table the way it was for Alford when he bolted for NM.
I guess that depends on where he falls in the average category. If he makes the tournament next year, he's still average. But you can't fire him then. If he makes it the year after that, he's probably a little above average and you for sure can't fire him. If he misses the year after that, he's probably back to average but you still can't fire him.
Now if he shows promise the rest of this year do you fire him? Maybe. He will definitely be below average after this year. But it kinda depends on how much stock you put in the turn around.
My opinion is you start looking right now and make sure you find the next Alford "as in closest thing to a bad ass hire on paper as you can find" before you make the move. Fran may not be worth keeping around. But he's at least good enough to not blindly fire him and then pray you find a decent coach. Right now we need to find our next coach, and then make the move. If it gets worse before you find one, or stays this bad next year, you have to roll the dice. If Fran starts doing good again before you find someone, you simply stop looking. But we aren't to the point now where we fire, and then start looking.
smitharooney
Well-Known Member
This program is still feeling the affects of not being patient with Lick and not giving him enough time to completely clean up the mess Alford left us in. Lick last recruiting class was just the start of him gaining momentum in recruiting. Too bad Brust bolted. No doubt by year eight we would have been pretty good under Lick. Will we be patient with the next coach if he wants to clean house .? This entire roster needs to be shown the door
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
Honestly we have reached our ceiling with Fran, and it mirrors the football team. We'll have a year or two where we make the dance, look decent, get ranked, only to get beat by a much better team in the dance (we'll get the dreaded 8/9 seed and play the eventual champion)
Those few seasons will be surrounded by these type of seasons. Bunch of what if's, or just downright disappointment.
It comes down to Fran's recruiting. People said it on this board right away when he was hired, it shouldn't take more than three years to turn around a program if you can recruit. Fran can't. He can't land a PG, and instead we have what seems like a roster full of the same player. 6'8", long arm, athletic that can't really dribble, can't really shoot, and cannot drive (minus Cook when he isn't in foul trouble). Where is the help coming next year? JW who can score, but we still don't have a PG, or a presence under the rim to grab rebounds.
This year's team has clearly has major issues as it's the worst defense I've ever seen. I agree that we should be looking for our next head coach, with a premium on recruiting. I don't care if the coach has success and bolts for another program, at least it means we saw some success.
I'll always support Iowa sports, but because of KF and now Fran, I'm really apathetic to it all. Why get hopes up at all when you know we're going to be boring (football), or crash and burn (basketball)
Those few seasons will be surrounded by these type of seasons. Bunch of what if's, or just downright disappointment.
It comes down to Fran's recruiting. People said it on this board right away when he was hired, it shouldn't take more than three years to turn around a program if you can recruit. Fran can't. He can't land a PG, and instead we have what seems like a roster full of the same player. 6'8", long arm, athletic that can't really dribble, can't really shoot, and cannot drive (minus Cook when he isn't in foul trouble). Where is the help coming next year? JW who can score, but we still don't have a PG, or a presence under the rim to grab rebounds.
This year's team has clearly has major issues as it's the worst defense I've ever seen. I agree that we should be looking for our next head coach, with a premium on recruiting. I don't care if the coach has success and bolts for another program, at least it means we saw some success.
I'll always support Iowa sports, but because of KF and now Fran, I'm really apathetic to it all. Why get hopes up at all when you know we're going to be boring (football), or crash and burn (basketball)
theboat
Well-Known Member
Fran is nowhere close to mirroring the football team. The last two seasons of football (disappointing on the football scale) are equal to Fran’s best 2 seasons overall.
BigD
Well-Known Member
If he goes winless in conference this year he should be fired. Barta likely wouldn’t do it though. Anyway the point should be mute because we should beat Illinois.
BigD
Well-Known Member
As much as I am suffering from KF fatigue I have to agree with this. Although it surprised me to hear you say this boat, as I know your as tired of Kirk as I am.
I disagree that we should beat Illinois. I will be surprised if we win.
That's fair. It's also fair to say one of those years was a play-in-game, in which we never really made the tournament. I know I didn't feel like we made the tourney that year when Thursday and Friday came and went and Iowa didn't play.
Fran has benefitted from being the coach following Lick, and worst era of Iowa basketball. I'll give him props for reviving the program but I don't think he can take the program to that next step. And I don't think I'm alone, judging by attendance and lack of excitement around the program. His style of play is frustrating and not enjoyable to watch.
theboat
Well-Known Member
I am, but it’s a different kinda tired.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
The other point he makes is some PG candidates likely look at the opportunity at Iowa and see a coach's son as the competition and wonder what kind of challenge that might present
This. It all comes back to this.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
2 Years? That's bull shit. Look at Mizzou and Cuonzo Martin.
Took over an 8-23 ball club. In fact, the previous 3 seasons look almost identical to our Lickliter years. 9-23, 10-21 and 8-23. Martin went out and signed the #2, 25, 42, 120 and 170 ranked players in his first class. They are 11-4 currently and that's with the #2 recruit out for the entire season with a bulging disc in his back.
Your reasons are just excuses. If you hire the wrong coach, you get shit results. When you hire the right coach, you can get immediate results. We hired a shit coach in Lickliter. We got shit results. We replaced him with a mediocre coach and it took years to get to mediocre and now we are headed back to shitsville. .
lightning1
Well-Known Member
No it wasn't. Everyone that knows anything about recruiting, etc, knows that Brad Stevens was the motor behind Butler. Stevens is now coaching in the NBA and Lickliter is coaching.....high school? Middle school? Why do you think no other D-1 programs hired the man as a HC after we fired him? There's a damn good reason. Lickliter had a great staff at Butler and when he came to Iowa, 80% of the best coaches on that staff didn't come with him (LaVall Jordan being the notable exception).
smitharooney
Well-Known Member
So how many times did Butler make the sweet 16 before Lick? After Iowa he lead a small Illinois school to their most conference wins in school history and they lead the nation in defense. Do you like Iowa defense ?
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
I think a lot of fans are with you in the below that Fran isn’t the guy to get us any higher. I’m not inclined to convince anyone otherwise.
I think those that still have hope in Fran really feel recruiting has picked up with Cook, Garza & Nunge, Weiskamp, and some of the others we are in on going forward. Now as we all know we will need to find better guards.
I’m somewhere in the middle. If we moved on from Fran I wouldn’t be upset, because at the very least it sends the message that we demand better. If he does stay around I will hope for an amazing turnaround next year and to start landing some better guards. Only time will tell.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
Cuonzo Martin?? Seriously? That’s your idea of excellence. He’s been coaching at P5 schools for the last 6 years and only made the dance twice. He did make a sweet 16, which coincidentally is the year they squeaked by Iowa in the play in game and had a really easy second round game.
The guy can recruit talent but he’s not exactly had a ton of success, not to mention most people think he’s a slime ball and he’s never stuck with a school for more than 3 years.
I'm not saying turnarounds like that aren't possible, just that they aren't likely.
lightning1
Well-Known Member
And what D-1 offers followed that accomplishment? Did you happen to notice that Brad Stevens took Butler to 2 National Championship games? But what are NC games compared to Sweet 16s? in 6 seasons as Butler HC, Lick won 3 conference titles. Brad Stevens won 4 in 6 seasons. Lick took Butler to 2 NCAA tournaments. Brad Stevens took them to 4. Brad Stevens is the HC of the Boston Celtics. Todd Lickliter is the HC of Marian (IN).
Sorry. If you can't admit that Brad Stevens was the success behind Lickliter's Butler teams..there isn't any more reason to talk basketball with you/
