Serious question.. How can you support Ferentz?

tksirius said:
You have one of the biggest defeatest attitudes I've ever seen. Sad.
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To be honest I expect us to win every game. It's not defeatist. I expect to win EVERY game. I could give you 25 mistakes or differences in coaching opinion EVERY game that I disagree with. I don't think GD has IT. That ability to run that one play at the right time that makes the defense pay for cheating or prevents them from loading the box for fear of a big strike score. I think we should blitz more. I think we should do more 2-3 man stunts up front. I think we should have played Akrum Wadley EVERY snap this year. I think Dez should have been turned into a receiver the day after vandeberg went down. I think the speed that we do have should be showcased...wadley on out and up patterns on the sideline.

But then that's opinion. I'm not in the locker room. I don't see the kids' work in practice. I don't walk into a Texas recruits home selling snowy Iowa City. I get the frustration. I want to win every game. I'd probably run coach over several hundred times if Bill Walsh or Vince Lombardi or *pukes in my mouth a little* Bill Bellichick was interested in Iowa. But they aren't. I don't think the risk of up and coming Joe Nobody is worth it right now. And it is honestly insulting and just hatred to call Fry a good coach and not Ferentz. Logic says that one has a personality conflict with Ferentz. You don't like him. Legit. But don't say he is a poor coach. THAT makes one look foolish. You can prefer not to like him, but calling him a bad coach is a bit silly. Math is all you have to look at. Numbers don't lie. Numbers are the only truth on earth. They say KF is as successful as Hayden Fry.
 
ottoman89 said:
First off, he's done some excellent things at Iowa. Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, several nice bowl wins. Developed some outstanding players for the Hawkeyed and the NFL.

However, how in Gods name can you still support him as the Hawkeye coach? Hasn't won a bowl game in the last few tries, and the last 2 bowl games we've been absolutely SMASHED. Opponents have the same time to prep as we do, so there's no excuses there. This Offense has been absolutely shameful. The QBs constantly regress at Iowa.. A very small amount of WRs with any kind of game breaking play ability even LOOK at Iowa. When you have the "best Offensive Line in the Nation" and sit with a 120th ranked offense, how the hell is that even possible? I feel like most of us on this board can at least crack the Top 75 with that OL, 2 very good RBs and a solid Senior QB.

Listen, I support our players 100% and love than as much as you all do.. But my goodness, the inability to adjust game plans and in game strategies is unbelievable. I feel like all the coaches do is carry over the same gameplan over, and over, and over again. When's the last time the Hawkeyes even TRIED to attack an opponents weakness?

Frustrating watching other programs around us be aggressive in all phases of Football (recruiting, gameplans, on field adjustments and plays) and cut the dead meat when they have too.

I just, I can't handle Kirk Ferentz anymore.

PS, I hope to god Greg Davis goes bye bye.

ALSO PS, I'm never going to stop loving and watching the Hawkeyes.
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With me being Lutheran helps at times. Ya know the daily repentance thing and all...............
 
ottoman89 said:
First off, he's done some excellent things at Iowa. Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, several nice bowl wins. Developed some outstanding players for the Hawkeyed and the NFL.

However, how in Gods name can you still support him as the Hawkeye coach? Hasn't won a bowl game in the last few tries, and the last 2 bowl games we've been absolutely SMASHED. Opponents have the same time to prep as we do, so there's no excuses there. This Offense has been absolutely shameful. The QBs constantly regress at Iowa.. A very small amount of WRs with any kind of game breaking play ability even LOOK at Iowa. When you have the "best Offensive Line in the Nation" and sit with a 120th ranked offense, how the hell is that even possible? I feel like most of us on this board can at least crack the Top 75 with that OL, 2 very good RBs and a solid Senior QB.

Listen, I support our players 100% and love than as much as you all do.. But my goodness, the inability to adjust game plans and in game strategies is unbelievable. I feel like all the coaches do is carry over the same gameplan over, and over, and over again. When's the last time the Hawkeyes even TRIED to attack an opponents weakness?

Frustrating watching other programs around us be aggressive in all phases of Football (recruiting, gameplans, on field adjustments and plays) and cut the dead meat when they have too.

I just, I can't handle Kirk Ferentz anymore.

PS, I hope to god Greg Davis goes bye bye.

ALSO PS, I'm never going to stop loving and watching the Hawkeyes.
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I will say up front I looked at your question and responded without looking at anything else in this thread. I tire of seeing too much negativity at times like this, even though I can dish it out with the best of them.

Maybe this is the answer to your question. What was our conference and overall record in 2015? So, because they got drilled in the last game of the season, you lump that with this bowl game this year, among other things, and cannot understand why anyone would legitimately support him? Bob Stoops lost bowl games for either four or five straight years not too long ago, as I recall. I suppose you wouldn't want him, either? Plus, KF has a track record if winning some conference hardware. It is much different to pose this question re him than it was for Tom Davis, who only sniffed a conference title twice and never won one at all.

Iowa has probably been to more major bowl games than any B10 program not named Ohio State, Michigan or Wisconsin during his tenure, including Nebraska and PSU. Maybe MSU got into that category over Iowa in the last few years. But look at this year. Is their trajectory like ours was earlier in the KF tenure?

Those statements don't negate some of the problems. But those may be some of the legitimate reasons for support, too. If you were looking for real answers to your question, then I think I gave you some. If you were looking to rip people for supporting him, then I can't change your mind, and you didn't want me to, either.
 
HawkeyeWalker said:
I have a lease with an option to buy(or sell). I have always leaned to the pro-KF side, although that lean gets less an less staunch at times. Here's the thing though, the contract has made KF the coach for basically as long as he wants, and it's an absolute idiotic contract. So, I'll rail against coaches I think are actually touchable (Davis, Kennedy) and continue to try to find the positives on the one who isn't.

I was very disappointed that CJ wasn't pulled, very. I love CJ, and he has been a winner and fantastic Hawkeye, but KF leaving him in, while it wasn't this abusive thing some fringe want to make it out to be, it wasn't in the best interest of the team, the fans, or even CJ, and it further shows the worst slight KF has, stubbornness and loyalty to a fault (In this case it's beyond stubbornness, bordering on defiance or even ignorance). These are types of things I will not defend or support KF on.

We lost this game the very second CJ came up short on that goal line reach, not because CJ failed(it was pure effort, and why I love the guy), it was because the offensive coaches are terrible (KF and GD included). If Iowa scores there to go up 7, I truly believe this is a 1 score game.

Maybe it's just a symptom, but Davis and Kennedy are the only ones they can be fired, so they should. If KF won't, well, then he will eventually lose those that remain in overall support of him.....

Lease, option to buy (sell)
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Not sure Stanley would have done much better. Something is way amiss with the receiver scheme. This was not just an issue this game. Was obvious in the passing totals for our last 3 wins but didn't fan flames because we won, and for now those 3 games seemed to have saved Greg Davis although not sure why exactly.

What I would like to know are these things:

1. What does Matt Vandeberg do in route running that none of the other receivers seem to do. We can see he catches the ball in tighter windows for sure.
2. Does our scheme require a PHD to figure it out and determine where they need to run? Does it require too much decision making at the line and on the fly?
3. How many balls a day do our receivers (and TEs) practice catching?
4. What happened to Jay Scheel? Is it the route running / decisions deal or did his injury kill his speed on the field?

I just cannot believe its impossible to get even average receivers open at times. Yes, I know you have to have time to throw and there were times during the season where a 3 man rush was getting to CJ. Our O Line simply is not the best line in the country. That is just ridiculous. Good run blockers at times, but pocket protection for passing not so sure. I also would have stayed with the exact line combo we ended the season with against Nebraska. I know Croston is a senior but what we had against Nebraska seemed to work better.

I do like Kirk. But certainly in post season he is the anti-Belichek. I am not going to lose any sleep over Iowa losing to Florida. No one will remember one way or the other. Did it make any difference in recruiting? Who knows. Let's see what Oliver Martin does. He definitely would have chance to hit the field immediately. Next season is tougher so we shall see.
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
I don't call 20 wins in two years stale. Did Fry ever post a two year win total like that? Nope.
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Im not talking wins. You have blinders on. Or are just trying to stir it up. Which, if true, you are doing a great job.

I have seen the same offense for the last 20 years. While it was awesome and very successful, it has gotten boring. I watch a lot of college football. 11 am to midnight on Saturdays. Love it. And I see some fantastic things out there. Even with teams who are power running teams like us. Watch Wiscy and Arkansas. They do some really fun things.
We get excited when our coach goes for it on 4th down. They run plays that actually are exciting and different, regularly.. But they stick to their roots. We dont.
Did you see the thread called, I believe, "Predict the first play Iowa runs in the bowl game". How many posts were "off tackle to the right or short side of the field"? Guess what Iowa ran on their first play?
If a bunch of dudes on a board can predict Iowa's gameplan, dont you think professionals can also?
That is what is stale.

There is no denying KF has done good things at Iowa. He has kept up a winning tradition that Fry established. He was an important factor in fund raising that brough Iowa into the 21st century in terms of facilities. He has run a clean program. Great things all.

But that doesnt mean it isnt time for a change. When things get to be the same ol' same ol', something has to change. And in this case, it is the HC.
 
westender said:
Not sure Stanley would have done much better. Something is way amiss with the receiver scheme. This was not just an issue this game. Was obvious in the passing totals for our last 3 wins but didn't fan flames because we won, and for now those 3 games seemed to have saved Greg Davis although not sure why exactly.

What I would like to know are these things:

1. What does Matt Vandeberg do in route running that none of the other receivers seem to do. We can see he catches the ball in tighter windows for sure.
2. Does our scheme require a PHD to figure it out and determine where they need to run? Does it require too much decision making at the line and on the fly?
3. How many balls a day do our receivers (and TEs) practice catching?
4. What happened to Jay Scheel? Is it the route running / decisions deal or did his injury kill his speed on the field?

I just cannot believe its impossible to get even average receivers open at times. Yes, I know you have to have time to throw and there were times during the season where a 3 man rush was getting to CJ. Our O Line simply is not the best line in the country. That is just ridiculous. Good run blockers at times, but pocket protection for passing not so sure. I also would have stayed with the exact line combo we ended the season with against Nebraska. I know Croston is a senior but what we had against Nebraska seemed to work better.

I do like Kirk. But certainly in post season he is the anti-Belichek. I am not going to lose any sleep over Iowa losing to Florida. No one will remember one way or the other. Did it make any difference in recruiting? Who knows. Let's see what Oliver Martin does. He definitely would have chance to hit the field immediately. Next season is tougher so we shall see.
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Nice post.

As I sat in RayJ, I watched the WRs for quite a bit. Basically, I saw two problems:
1) We pretty much determined that we were not going to throw unless/until we had to. If I HAD to guess, I'd say the WRs and TEs spent an inordinate amount of time on the blocking sled the month leading up to game day

2) Our WRs all seem to run the same "position" pattern, i.e., each receiver position has a set group of patterns to run...when not blocking as a "primary" assignment, of course.

I can't believe I am about to type this, but I am: we all bitch about the horizontal passing game from GD. And we didn't even use it this game. But we actually needed to use it this game. We weren't going to beat them downfield right off the bat, so why try? Move inside-to-outside, and vice-versa, and mix it up with the RBs and WRs in the pass game. Hit a TE on a quick slant, or at least have them running the seam. When we eventually get some success, THEN try and make them pay for loading the box. But you don't always have to go downfield to loosen the box.

The fourth down play to Daniels had two problems. In terms of execution, one person whiffed on his block. In terms of scheme, did we not see ANY film showing Florida stuffing LSU at game's end, at the goal line, on three or four successive plays? Or was the Super-8 film projector broken?
 
Motigerhawk said:
Im not talking wins. You have blinders on. Or are just trying to stir it up. Which, if true, you are doing a great job.

I have seen the same offense for the last 20 years. While it was awesome and very successful, it has gotten boring. I watch a lot of college football. 11 am to midnight on Saturdays. Love it. And I see some fantastic things out there. Even with teams who are power running teams like us. Watch Wiscy and Arkansas. They do some really fun things.
We get excited when our coach goes for it on 4th down. They run plays that actually are exciting and different, regularly.. But they stick to their roots. We dont.
Did you see the thread called, I believe, "Predict the first play Iowa runs in the bowl game". How many posts were "off tackle to the right or short side of the field"? Guess what Iowa ran on their first play?
If a bunch of dudes on a board can predict Iowa's gameplan, dont you think professionals can also?
That is what is stale.

There is no denying KF has done good things at Iowa. He has kept up a winning tradition that Fry established. He was an important factor in fund raising that brough Iowa into the 21st century in terms of facilities. He has run a clean program. Great things all.

But that doesnt mean it isnt time for a change. When things get to be the same ol' same ol', something has to change. And in this case, it is the HC.
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Here's what I don't get, in addition to what I posted earlier...

--Against Michigan, Illinois, et. al., we saw Wadley jet-sweep, and THEN saw "ghost-motion", which adds a real problem for a defense. We didn't see it against Florida.

--First-and-goal play was okay. But after that? All I can say is, "Ouch". It hurt to watch, and if we were all on group text, we would have been lamenting it BEFORE the series concluded. That is how frigging predictable things have gotten. Even with KoK, we would have seen wrinkles. A "wrinkle" to GD IS doing the "predictable".
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
To be honest I expect us to win every game. It's not defeatist. I expect to win EVERY game. I could give you 25 mistakes or differences in coaching opinion EVERY game that I disagree with. I don't think GD has IT. That ability to run that one play at the right time that makes the defense pay for cheating or prevents them from loading the box for fear of a big strike score. I think we should blitz more. I think we should do more 2-3 man stunts up front. I think we should have played Akrum Wadley EVERY snap this year. I think Dez should have been turned into a receiver the day after vandeberg went down. I think the speed that we do have should be showcased...wadley on out and up patterns on the sideline.

But then that's opinion. I'm not in the locker room. I don't see the kids' work in practice. I don't walk into a Texas recruits home selling snowy Iowa City. I get the frustration. I want to win every game. I'd probably run coach over several hundred times if Bill Walsh or Vince Lombardi or *pukes in my mouth a little* Bill Bellichick was interested in Iowa. But they aren't. I don't think the risk of up and coming Joe Nobody is worth it right now. And it is honestly insulting and just hatred to call Fry a good coach and not Ferentz. Logic says that one has a personality conflict with Ferentz. You don't like him. Legit. But don't say he is a poor coach. THAT makes one look foolish. You can prefer not to like him, but calling him a bad coach is a bit silly. Math is all you have to look at. Numbers don't lie. Numbers are the only truth on earth. They say KF is as successful as Hayden Fry.
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There is no doubt Kirk is a successful coach. He's won a lot of games. He puts a lot of guys in pros. He is very organized. Take a look at Iowa's sideline during a game. Not a wasted second, efficient as hell, everyone is in their position groups offense on one end, D on the other. Just like a NFL sideline.

But when people say he's not a good coach, they are referring to gameday, not the administrative part that he probably excels in. To say he's good or great coach on gameday is a stretch.

-When can you say Iowa won a game because they out-schemed an opponent?
-How often can you say Iowa got out-schemed and it cost them the game or made it very close despite Iowa's huge talent edge?
-McCann over Banks, Jake Christensen going into 2 seasons as a starting QB, not having legit WRs on the roster or a legit passing scheme, battling MAC teams for recruits, opponents for years saying they know exactly what Iowa is doing before they do it, and on and on an on.

These are not traits of a good gameday coach.

Hey, I'll be the first to admit. I'll probably miss KF a lot when he's gone because the odds of Barta butchering the hiring of his replacement are sky high but the same old stuff has gotten very old.
 
TL;DontR

I used to be a fanboy of Cirk just like pwoud and the numerous other posters without his courage who've disappeared since the bowl debacle.

In 2010 the sporting press and the fans had lofty expectations, as did I. Then the fake punt . . . next the Gordon decommitment. But hey we won our bowl so I was a forgiving fanboy.

But slowly things changed. In 2011 I saw Iowa come back against Pitt and was impressed with the tempo offense . . . never to be seen again that season.

In the 2012 pre-season I read all the message board comments about how people were happy to get rid of KOK. I knew they were orgasming over foolsgold. Not because I knew GD was horrible, but becuz I knew KOK's shortcoming were really Cirk's shortcomings. Sure enough 2012 arrived and it was a disaster movie with dandy vandy taking every snap. The king of stubbornness on the sideline watching the titanic go down and not even grabbing a single life preserver for the passengers.

Then I saw JR resurrect Iowa in 2013 only to hear announcers quote Cirk: "If we keep winning like this we're gonna face a tough opponent in our bowl game and get our butt kicked." Then we faced Les Miles in the Outback and an inferior (cough cough) coach beat our hall-of-famer. Of course Cirk himself had predicted a loss.

Then in 2014 Jake Rudock started his regression and I knew why. I also could understand DW quitting and CJB being sympathetic toward him. I also knew CJB had proven to be the more capable Hawkeye QB but had to sit on the bench cuz "there's a future doctor who knows the playbook better" on the field.

Then 2015 came and I wasn't surprised to see CJB shine. He had been chomping at the bit and the guys for some intangible reason responded to his leadership better than Jakes . . . not to blame Jake for everything, I'm sure the coaches crawled inside his head and didn't help him at all on game day. What he accomplished at Michigan proved that to be true. Iowa was ranked 4th and poised to make the playoffs. Huzzah!! Our decades-long patience was finally gonna be rewarded. Us loyal fans had driven up TV ratings and packed the stadium for 35 years and this was the moment we had all been waiting for. But in the back of my mind I knew Cirk didn't really think lil ole Iowa was one of the big boyz. We'd need swagger to beat MSU and that was verboten with Cirk in charge. Sure enough we lost to MSU. But hey, we were going to the Rose Bowl and could finally get the monkey off our back that kept chattering: "Iowa hasn't won a Rose Bowl since the 50s." Instead, we wet our pants . . . live . . . on National TV. It was as if Cirk was holding up a sign that read: WE DON'T BELONG.

Then 2016 arrived and as soon as the contract was signed I started bitching. I knew that was a season-killing contract. Wasn't surprised we lost to NDSU shortly after the signature. I can't get past that contract, cuz I know Cirk really thinks he has earned it. He's completely oblivious to his own shortcomings - like losing to directional schools and being a lazy recruiter and keeping superior talent on the bench. Now I know people luv to state they love Cirk personally. To me, those comments are a comment on them, and not on Cirk. Those people have some sort of daddy issues I don't want to get into. As someone else stated, "Cirk has taken us as far as he can." It's true. He hasn't really elevated Iowa beyond the JHF years. Finishing ranked 33% of the time is not the same thing as finishing ranked 50% of the time. Time for some new blood at HC.
 
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And on it goes. The majority of fans, at least on here want Kirk gone. Kirk may have had the desire to win when he was younger but now he's more comfortable going 7-5 and not gambling on recruits or anything else. When a coach doesn't have the desire to win a national championship no matter where he is it's time to move on. Without the incredible support of the Iowa fans Kirk would be gone already. Barta is judged on how much money comes into the university not by wins and losses. Kirk is job security for Barta.
 
Caddy said:
I'm not sure how anyone can support him. His recruiting is awful, game day coaching is even worse as he and staff are consistently out coached, can't make adjustments, so what does he do well? Who in the coaching realm can't do what he does at Iowa?
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Okay, so if his recruiting is awful, coaching is worse, and staff are outcoached, no adjustments, does nothing well.... then how in the world has he ever won a game? Or let's look at it another way... you really think that it's possible with terrible talent (bad at recruiting) and poor game plans (game day coaching bad, no adjustments, other coaches out-coached) that he could have cobbled together a 12-2 season since he clearly can't do anything well, as you yourself said? Let's at least not go off the deep end if we're gonna level criticisms.
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
You not only missed the boat...you dove into a sand bank. NO ONE like that wants to coach here. WHO was interested after Fry left. Stoops and he was an unproven commodity as a head coach. You don't want Lame Kiffin OR Chip Kelley and they don't want you either. Just saying.
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Those are 2 hypothetical names that first came to mind, probably not serious considerations.You can attract just about anyone for the right price. The Athletic Department has shown they are willing to pay, as they do now and I guarantee you could pull good coaching talent here. I'm not an expert on all the OC's and DC's or head coaches from smaller up and coming programs that could be potential candidates but to simply remove the possibility and say that there are no capable replacements for KF is nonsense. He's not the end all be all solution and in no way will the program be hurt that much worse by changing the reigns. Wisconsin did in 3 times in 7 years and all they've done is average 10 wins a season over that time. Look at Alabama in like the 80's and 90's...they kind of sucked for a while. Bring in a change of attitude and a demand for winning and a lot can happen.
 
tksirius said:
Bingo!
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Stupid posts on both parts. Someone saying they like Kirk doesn't mean they have issues. So most all of his former players have issues? Doubtful.

National title winners since Kirk took over, these are the bluest of bloods my friends. This is what Iowa is up against. Lots of other coaches out there not at these schools failing if by these standards alone.

2015 Alabama CFP
2014 Ohio State CFP
2013 Florida State BCS
2012 Alabama BCS
2011 Alabama BCS
2010 Auburn BCS
2009 Alabama BCS
2008 Florida BCS
2007 Louisiana State BCS
2006 Florida BCS
2005 Texas BCS
2004 Southern California BCS
2003 Louisiana State, Southern California BCS, AP, FWAA
2002 Ohio State BCS
2001 Miami (Fla.) BCS
2000 Oklahoma BCS
1999 Florida State BCS
 
Reading Kirk's interview about the game, it seems like he is more concerned with following HIS game plan and practicing HIS way is more important than the result. He seems to say that the game plan was fine, the team practiced well and we just played a good team. No problem. Except we didn't just get beaten, we got our butts kicked in the second half. His strategy and execution are not the problem. Aaaaaaaaaaaah! So let's just keep banging our heads agaist the wall the same way instead of looking for a way around, over or around the wall. Frustrating to read his comments.
 
TJHawkeye said:
Reading Kirk's interview about the game, it seems like he is more concerned with following HIS game plan and practicing HIS way is more important than the result. He seems to say that the game plan was fine, the team practiced well and we just played a good team. No problem. Except we didn't just get beaten, we got our butts kicked in the second half. His strategy and execution are not the problem. Aaaaaaaaaaaah! So let's just keep banging our heads agaist the wall the same way instead of looking for a way around, over or around the wall. Frustrating to read his comments.
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But, people love him and they don't have daddy issues.
 
Motigerhawk said:
Im not talking wins. You have blinders on. Or are just trying to stir it up. Which, if true, you are doing a great job.

I have seen the same offense for the last 20 years. While it was awesome and very successful, it has gotten boring. I watch a lot of college football. 11 am to midnight on Saturdays. Love it. And I see some fantastic things out there. Even with teams who are power running teams like us. Watch Wiscy and Arkansas. They do some really fun things.
We get excited when our coach goes for it on 4th down. They run plays that actually are exciting and different, regularly.. But they stick to their roots. We dont.
Did you see the thread called, I believe, "Predict the first play Iowa runs in the bowl game". How many posts were "off tackle to the right or short side of the field"? Guess what Iowa ran on their first play?
If a bunch of dudes on a board can predict Iowa's gameplan, dont you think professionals can also?
That is what is stale.

There is no denying KF has done good things at Iowa. He has kept up a winning tradition that Fry established. He was an important factor in fund raising that brough Iowa into the 21st century in terms of facilities. He has run a clean program. Great things all.

But that doesnt mean it isnt time for a change. When things get to be the same ol' same ol', something has to change. And in this case, it is the HC.
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BillSPrestonEsq said:
Those are 2 hypothetical names that first came to mind, probably not serious considerations.You can attract just about anyone for the right price. The Athletic Department has shown they are willing to pay, as they do now and I guarantee you could pull good coaching talent here. I'm not an expert on all the OC's and DC's or head coaches from smaller up and coming programs that could be potential candidates but to simply remove the possibility and say that there are no capable replacements for KF is nonsense. He's not the end all be all solution and in no way will the program be hurt that much worse by changing the reigns. Wisconsin did in 3 times in 7 years and all they've done is average 10 wins a season over that time. Look at Alabama in like the 80's and 90's...they kind of sucked for a while. Bring in a change of attitude and a demand for winning and a lot can happen.
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Once again, someone who says change but can not show an ounce of proof that an established coach would come here. I'm not prepared to throw away 8,12, 8 wins to be Iowa State and hope.
 
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