Royce White

It seems to be all or nothing for Patrick.

Either the team you root for is gonna stink and lose every game...or you are saying they'll go 34-0 and win the National Title.

The truth is, Patrick, that ISU fans see the chance to have a 20 win season and make it into the tournament. Nobody thinks that this is a sure thing...but we DO think we have a damn good chance of attaining that goal. And our hope is not unreasonable given our talent level.

I'm really not sure what it is you're trying to say, Patrick? I understand you don't like ISU, but what is the point you're striving to make in this thread?
 
My point Mesa is that there are many Clone fans and Iowa fans for that matter that think it's a foregone conclusion that Iowa St. will be good this year in basketball. While they do have some talent on their roster, I'm not buying into the full product as a whole. I cite Iowa's team with Recker, Evans and Ryan Hogan, who was part of Kentucky's national title before he transferred to Iowa. They added heavily recruited Pierre Pierce to the team as well. That team tanked because they had no legit point guard.

I also site Iowa St's supposedly good team in 2009-10 with Brackins, Staiger, Gilstrap, etc...that also tanked and wound up with a losing record. Somehow there is this ill-conceived impression that Iowa St.'s program is somehow above Iowa's right now because of all these transfers that Hoiberg has brought in. All I'm saying is that I'm not buying the hype one bit, especially without a proven point guard to run the team. Iowa's team, imo, has just as much promise.

I don't know if you don't like the facts I have brought up as it pertains to past teams, more-so that Brackins led team in 09-10. You say many ISU fans think you guys can win 20 games this year. That's much the same as Iowa fans thinking Iowa can win 16 to 17 games this year. That would only be a 3 win gap between the two, but somehow some think that Iowa St is head and shoulders better than Iowa. I don't see it and I'm not buying into the hype.
 
busabus114 said:
How is ISU fans hoping for an NCAA berth much different than Iowa fans talking about the NIT? Are you telling me that if we had Royce White we wouldnt be doing the same thing? Its the offseason, and we're fans. Everyone is going to look at things with a lot of optimism.
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Which is really the point I'm trying to make. I see it all over the boards, "Iowa St. is way better than Iowa right now". "Iowa St. has way better players than Iowa"......Those of course are paraphrased, but you get my point. If in reality both fan bases visions of the NCAA for Iowa ST and the NIT for Iowa, I would say that the programs are much more on par with one another than some think. If your talking NIT for Iowa, in many cases that means your a bubble team down the stretch.

Iowa's program and Iowa St.'s program are currently on par with each other. I'm talking about this illusion that somehow Iowa St. is a better program just because they have brought in some quality role players from a couple of Big Ten teams and they also brought in a kid in Royce White that hasn't played a D1 game yet.
 
PatrickAdamovicz said:
Which is really the point I'm trying to make. I see it all over the boards, "Iowa St. is way better than Iowa right now". "Iowa St. has way better players than Iowa"......Those of course are paraphrased, but you get my point. If in reality both fan bases visions of the NCAA for Iowa ST and the NIT for Iowa, I would say that the programs are much more on par with one another than some think. If your talking NIT for Iowa, in many cases that means your a bubble team down the stretch.

Iowa's program and Iowa St.'s program are currently on par with each other. I'm talking about this illusion that somehow Iowa St. is a better program just because they have brought in some quality role players from a couple of Big Ten teams and they also brought in a kid in Royce White that hasn't played a D1 game yet.
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I will only speak for myself, but some of my enthusiasm comes from the perceived quality of recruits Hoiberg has been getting. I realize that it means nothing until they get on the court and perform, but it's nice seeing us beat out schools like Arizona, Pitt, St. John's, Cincinnati, W. Virginia, etc. for our high school recruits.

That's where I see some separation in Iowa State's program in respect to Iowa's. But it's still early in the two coach's tenures, and Iowa can really come back in that respect if they snag Gessell and Woodbury.
 
PatrickAdamovicz said:
Oh, I won't tune out, but funny how you didn't acknowledge what I pointed out with that stellar Brackins/Staiger/Gilstrap team. That team was led by then Junior PG D. Garrett. I remember how ISU fans were drooling over the start of that season. I'm seeing some interesting parallels. Actually ISU fan had more of a reason to drool over that season as Brackins was a proven commodity, Royce White has yet to show anything on the D1 level. And I'm still curious to see who is going to run the point for this team. No point = no success.

As for Jon's football prediction, at least Iowa's football program is among the best in the nation while he made that prediction. Bowl games year in and year out. Oh and highly thought of bowl games at that. BCS bowls, January 1st bowls. Completely different than inflating a basketball program that has done nothing, (just like Iowa's BB program) for the last decade. How about waiting for a period of sustained success before making lofty expectations.
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I don't need to acknowledge it. You are right about some fans. There was a ton of hype. But we quickly learned we had a guy who couldn't coach for **** in the B12. So far Hoiberg has done a better job. He got a lot out of a pretty empty bench last season and on paper has done a better job recruiting. I'm not claiming a big run this year, but I'm not denying myself some excitement either.
 
There are no sure things. You can't even assume the Kansas will have a great team, much less Iowa or ISU. But the collection of talent in Ames for this season is something that hasn't really been seen since the Eustachy years. Brackins was a good player and the 09 team had potential to be pretty good...but lacked chemistry and coaching. That could, of course, happen again. But Hoiberg thus far has shown an ability to do more with less...so its logical to think he may also do more with more. As for chemistry...that's a mixture that will only reveal itself on the court...though all indications seem very positive.

You are overstating the optimism at ISU, I believe, Patrick. I think most reasonable basketball fans would say its LIKELY that ISU will be a good bit better than Iowa in basketball this year...but, of course, that could be wrong. So if your only point is that we don't really know how good ISU will be...than I think every ISU fan would agree. Likewise for Iowa. But your point seems to be that ISU fans have no more reason for optimism than do Iowa fans...and that point seems a bit ridiculous given the APPARENT talent disparities.

The Italian tour that starts next week should be an interesting indicator of what MAY be shaping up for ISU fans...and I think that extra two weeks of practice and four games against what is said to be good competition...is a big advantage for a team that needs time to build chemistry. Perhaps this whole discussion can be more accurate after that tour is over...but we won't really know much until we see what happens in November/December.
 
PatrickAdamovicz said:
My point Mesa is that there are many Clone fans and Iowa fans for that matter that think it's a foregone conclusion that Iowa St. will be good this year in basketball. While they do have some talent on their roster, I'm not buying into the full product as a whole. I cite Iowa's team with Recker, Evans and Ryan Hogan, who was part of Kentucky's national title before he transferred to Iowa. They added heavily recruited Pierre Pierce to the team as well. That team tanked because they had no legit point guard.

I also site Iowa St's supposedly good team in 2009-10 with Brackins, Staiger, Gilstrap, etc...that also tanked and wound up with a losing record. Somehow there is this ill-conceived impression that Iowa St.'s program is somehow above Iowa's right now because of all these transfers that Hoiberg has brought in. All I'm saying is that I'm not buying the hype one bit, especially without a proven point guard to run the team. Iowa's team, imo, has just as much promise.

I don't know if you don't like the facts I have brought up as it pertains to past teams, more-so that Brackins led team in 09-10. You say many ISU fans think you guys can win 20 games this year. That's much the same as Iowa fans thinking Iowa can win 16 to 17 games this year. That would only be a 3 win gap between the two, but somehow some think that Iowa St is head and shoulders better than Iowa. I don't see it and I'm not buying into the hype.
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I assume that you've seen Iowa's non-conference schedule? Lots of Ws on there. All 3 win gaps are not created equally.
 
Cydkar said:
I assume that you've seen Iowa's non-conference schedule? Lots of Ws on there. All 3 win gaps are not created equally.
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I understand that, with that said I think Iowa and Iowa St. are much, much closer together than what people think. The great thing is we get to see it play out. I for one hope that both teams surprise and wind up making the tournament. It's good for the winter around these parts.

And Mesa, as for the talent disparity that you mention, that is exactly what I don't see. I think Basabe, as we sit here right now is as good or better than any player on ISU. He had a great game against Iowa St. last year. Now was Royce White a highly rated player? Absolutely. But as of right now, neither you or I have seen how that will translate at the big time college level. Basabe, I feel is being somewhat slighted in this area because he wasn't as highly rated, mainly because he played on the elite AAU team in New York and he had a lot of others top players around him.

Again, I don't think the talent disparity is what some are making it to be.
 
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PatrickAdamovicz said:
I understand that, with that said I think Iowa and Iowa St. are much, much closer together than what people think. The great thing is we get to see it play out. I for one hope that both teams surprise and wind up making the tournament. It's good for the winter around these parts.

And Mesa, as for the talent disparity that you mention, that is exactly what I don't see. I think Basabe, as we sit here right now is as good or better than any player on ISU. He had a great game against Iowa St. last year. Now was Royce White a highly rated player? Absolutely. But as of right now, neither you or I have seen how that will translate at the big time college level. Basabe, I feel is being somewhat slighted in this area because he wasn't as highly rated, mainly because he played on the elite AAU team in New York and he had a lot of others top players around him.

Again, I don't think the talent disparity is what some are making it to be.
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Don't follow much basketball, do you?
 
Wrong, I probably watch more sports than most posters on this board. No citcoms, game shows, news programs, unless ESPN, ESPN News, Big Ten Network counts. Its quite sick actually. But to my point. Basabe probably wins Freshman of the year in the conference if not for Sullinger. With your comment I fully expect Royce to be freshman of the year in his conference.
 
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White can't win Freshman of the year, he's a sophomore, but he can win Newcomer of the Year. I like Basabe as well. They have different skills and could play together with no problem. That would be sick.
 
Honestly I do think there's a chance ISU could be very, very good next year. But it all comes down to White. ISU fans over estimate how good of players Babb and Allen are, but they both can shoot the ball as can Christopherson. ISU really has nothing up front except for White, Ejim is too small to play 4 in the B12, Booker and Railey are both garbage. If White is good enough that they can play small a lot, they could be tough.
 
Don't get me wrong, I expect ISU to be improved, but I also expect Iowa to be much improved as well. I think they have similar talent. Back to the beginning of this thread though and I do want to say that it's nice to see Royce White get himself together and now he can put his talent to use. I'll admit that I'm surprised he stuck it out. Hopefully things continue to go well for him.

Cydkar, thanks for the reminder on White being a soph. He should win newcomer of the year honors then.
 
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HawkeyeMike23 said:
Honestly I do think there's a chance ISU could be very, very good next year. But it all comes down to White. ISU fans over estimate how good of players Babb and Allen are, but they both can shoot the ball as can Christopherson. ISU really has nothing up front except for White, Ejim is too small to play 4 in the B12, Booker and Railey are both garbage. If White is good enough that they can play small a lot, they could be tough.
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I guess we will see how garbage Booker is when he faces Basabe won't we?
 
9YRPLAN said:
i may have mentioned this before, but did you know that Booker is COMPLETELY HORRIBLE?
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I've seen a lot of horrible basketball in my day. I've seen Greg McDermott bring in guys like Clinton Mann and Clayton Vette. I know horrible basketball players when I see them. Booker isn't horrible.
 
9YRPLAN said:
he wasnt given a scholarship based on his play or talent, thats for sure.
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Sure he wasn't. I'm sure Fred looked at him and said, "you suck, but I want you," and offered.

Kid has talent. Can he put the talent to use? I don't know. But he is very talented.
 
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