May the force be with you.
Rebrotcha-watch...
- Thread starter Fryowa
- Start date
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
You just reiterated the general rule. I realize the rule. Why isn't it called anymore? You have Cofi Cockburn who literally just stands in the lane the entire offensive series and rotates to the ball with his arm up, just pivots/rotates around. Never forced to leave. If doesn't get the ball, is automatically in a great position for an offensive rebound and put back. I realize the count stops and starts on shots, but he is literally in the lane the entire time as the offense kicks the ball around prior to a shot going up.
Edey is the same at Purdue. Literally just convalesces in the lane.
I gave you the reason why I dont call it. But I guess what I failed to mention that Im talking to people in the lane all the time. "Get out 15". Im always talking. Im sure they are also we just dont hear it. From a referees perspective. If Im calling 3 seconds in the lane Im not doing my job. Plus its really up to the lead referee when his 3 seconds starts. Its not a science, just an officials interpretation of the rules which is what refereeing is
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I also realize there is so much involved with calling a game and it is rather ridiculous to try to manage that. But, it is a basketball rule and can really change the outcome on plays if not diligently looked at, such as the way Cofi Cockburn plays. Would he be that effective if he was forced to move in and out more??
I think maybe one warning should be adequate. If they don't get it after one, then call it. If you are observant enough to give them that warning, then you are observant enough to call it, especially HS level or above. Is it fair for the team playing great defense you are letting the offensive team slide with rules?
And I completely understand and respect the looooong 3 seconds as it's a fast game. Hell, I'd even be fine if over the 3 seconds to a 4 count with the discretion of an official. But, I have a hard time when players literally don't move which gains such an advantage. Yea, warn them, then call them on it if it is a chronic issue with said player.
If it happens 1 or a few times a game, it shouldn't have an outcome on the game if the better team takes care of business. But, if is is chronically done and a part of a team or players game, then it does create an unfair advantage. This is the way I've witnessed Cockburn and Edey in BIG 10 play. It is their game to exploit the non-call, IMO.
And thank you for officiating b-ball as there is shortage out there. Folks, be KIND to those officials!
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Fryowa
Administrator
As a high school coach and official myself (not basketball), I hate that. It's not your job to affect the game or help anyone out. You wanna know the best way to get kids to learn to rotate out of the lane, or not balk, or not false start? Call them for it. Simple as that. There's nothing worse in sports than officials giving advice to kids to avoid penalties unless you're doing some 4th grade 10u stuff or something.
Like line judges who tell receivers to come up to the LOS before the snap, umpires telling catchers that their pitcher is balking so they quit, etc. That's not your job and it's unfair to the opposing team of those kids you're talking to.
Your job is to officiate, not coach.
Rebraca hit a nice 10-15 footer to start the scoring against Richmond iirc.
Maybe he is a pretty decent midrange shooter but was deferring to the other players to be the scorers.
Agree, but I think officials can talk to players about rules interpretations even though it may not be their job to educate them. Is it the line judges who initiate the telling receivers to step up rather than what I thought the commonly accepted practice is of the receivers checking with the line judge? I think if all receivers can check with the line judge then that is ok.
Behavioral modification 101, the best way to correct bad behavior in a sport, skills setting is for negative consequences to affect the player. Same goes for coaches who let bad behavior slide for the star players.
Sounds like you're higher on his offensive ability then me. To me he didn't show much. We got the one Euro big guy who has no touch or outside shot from what I saw most of the year. Yeah he didn't get a ton of touches or shots due to the team how it is but he missed a lot of open looks too.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Who were you expecting? Luka Doncic?
LOL, my Rich Text Editor conked out again so no emoji for you!
Knight78
Well-Known Member
22? When the season starts this year he will be 25. (From the Hawkeye web site, it states his birthday is 9/3/97)
Knight78
Well-Known Member
To play Devil's Advocate, Sven Nater didn't start a game in college and averaged 3 points and 3 rebounds a game (backup to Bill Walton), yet had a 12 year pro career in the ABA and the NBA. Only player to lead both leagues in rebounding.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
No. The Murray twins graduated from CR Prairie. With only a Western Illinois offer and with their dad's help, they went to DME Academy in what would have been their college freshman year. The twins are 21 right now (my age when I graduated from college) and will be 22 in August.
Not at all Doncic is obviously the elite of the elite and more of a 3. But something closer to what Nunge would have been doing woulda been nice. If he coulda gave us 6-7 rebounds and 10-12 pts more consistently and hit the outside shot now and then when left open that woulda opened things up more for the Murrays, PM etc. That'd have been difference making. He was more of a 6 pt 4 rebound guy I think. I'm not sure he hit 5 three pointers all year long. Without watching Nunge all yr long I'm sure he hit more then that and would have for us had he stayed
Now those numbers woulda been fine too had the other bigs we have coulda done more but Josh only had a couple games where he did much of anything and Mulvey really didn't at all in mins that mattered. Call me greedy but Iowa coulda had a better season had that position played better for us.
trj
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I didn’t realize the age thing until last week. Now it makes sense why people were speculating he was going to play overseas after the season. All that being said, it sounds like he and Conner are both leaning toward coming back.
Fryowa
Administrator
I work chains for high school games and what I'm referring to are officials telling receivers without prompting.
Every game I hear multiple times, "Move up 80...move up 80...........80, move up..."
Throw the flag. Next time they'll be aware of where they're at and they won't have to be told because their coach will be chewing their ass into the ground.
There's a thing called practice that usually stuff like that gets taught and addressed. But for some reason I don't think coaches get around to doing all that good a job of doing it. But yeah once kids get to JR high and above it's not the refs job to do any of that.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
I read an article where Fran was speaking with Kenyon at some game and actually recommended they go to a private school for a year. When they got back from DME, Fran saw their ascension and was like "Cha Ching".
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Here's an example. My boys are 15 now but when they were playing on their USSSA AAA baseball team there was a kid pitching, prob the 4-5 ranked pitcher on the team. He goes in and gets a number of warnings for balking. This is fine because it's 14U. The umpire, after about 4-5 warnings, finally calls a balk.
I can't completely remember if it was a certain motion he was doing or not bringing the glove down below the chest to pause or something, but it was a legit warning. I wanna say he was keeping the glove too high up by his face and when went to pitch doing a subtle double motion, but I can't completely remember.
Anyway, apparently the kid had been doing this for years (prob started pitch ball when quite young) and was never corrected until 14U. Anyway, because this was never corrected he now had muscle memory and had a hell of a time breaking himself from this.
We averaged something like 84 points per game this year. Most of second half of the Big 10 season we were winning by double digit points. IMO, we didn't need more scoring. I thought the kid did a good job of doing what was asked of him, which was play defense, rebound and collect some garbage points around the basket.
Would it have been nice to have some more scoring against Richmond? Of course. But I don't think it was really this kid's role and he performed well overall. If he were scoring more threes it would have just been at someone else's expense.
I completely agree. Its not my job to coach. Its my job to have the game run with some flow. If we dont help Jr. High, high school and college kids along then we will stop the game alot for stuff that can be helped. In college games its brief and there isnt alot, but we dont talk. Just not as much. I have not ran into a referee that refuses to talk to players about violations. You are the first coach Ive met that hates us talking to the players. But then again, I always run into coaches that think they can referee unbiasly from the sideline while also coaching their kids.
Do me a favor next year before the season starts. Take the referee test! Get in a referee some games. Its a great way to learn the way to talk to referees that grabs our attention. When a coach doesnt use "slang" when they talk to me, they've got my attention because then I know they know what they are talking about.
