Reality Check: Where Exactly is Iowa Basketball on the Improvement Meter

hawkfan33 said:
You're terrible at analytical thinking though, you're constantly wrong on stats. Like when you say Iowa is 4-3 against the B10 teams ranked 100-200 in the RPI.

Link to your record?
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Ha ha ha. Like everyone else I was bored stiff with the first PSU game and forgot it. I thought I said 3-2 forgetting the PsU game.
 
sportstalent said:
Don't mistake understanding a player's role from a player understanding what aspects of the game they are best at...if a player doesn't know or is unwilling...how will that player be successful? There is a big difference...do what you do beat no matter what position or role a player is in.
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Don't mistake when I used the word limitations with when I used the word role.

Seriously, you used an example of two players who were tragically bad at both when they were sophomores, but who you now praise for being good at both as an argument for players not developing.

Get the irony now?
 
hawkfan33 said:
So here, I'll do a real positive/negative style breakdown like Illinihawk did.

Positives:

Vast overall defensive improvement over last season - going from 180th in the nation to 28th in the nation defense after losing our best perimeter defender is something that even the most optimistic fans could have predicted

Terrific 3 point defense -Went from 182nd in the nation to 11th in the nation in 3pt FG% defense

Woodbury's defense and aggressiveness: Woodbury has been better than I expected on the defensive end and has done a great job battling with B10 upper classmen in the paint all year, last year we consistently got destroyed inside

Improved Rebounding: Like our defense, our rebounding especially defensive rebounding has been vastly improved

Eric May: He's been terrific in all facets of the game this year, how someone could see a senior playing terrific as a negative is beyond me, you expect your upperclassmen to be leaders and May certainly has

Basabe: He's brought energy and rebounding every game this season, no more games where he seems disinterested, which were all too frequent last year

White's ability to get to the line: White has shown an a truly elite ability to get to the free throw line this year, he's 4th in the nation in FT rate and 10th in the nation in fouls drawn/40 mins, White's averaging 13/6 a game and we still have him for two more years

Gesell: He's been great as a freshman this year, a starter from day one and averaging almost 10 a game, he's had some big games and shown a really solid stroke

Play at Home: Iowa is 14-2 at home this year with the two losses coming by a total of 7 points to two top 10 teams while missing a major player in each of those games

Fan Excitement: Iowa's attendance is at its highest level since early in Alford's tenure, this team plays hard every night and the improvement is evident

Negatives:

Shooting: Iowa, as a whole, has been a very bad outside shooting team, 304th in the nation in 3pt FG%, the fact that we've shot as poor as we have and still been extremely competitive in all but one B10 game is very impressive though

Ogelsby: There's no way around it, he's had a terrible year offensively, shooting 26% from 3 is terrible no other way to look at it

Marble's play against B10 elite: Marble has struggled mightily against top tier B10 teams, whether some of that is due to being banged up or not he hasn't made the jump to All B10 player I hoped he would make this year, still a very solid B10 starter and I think the lack of other scoring threats has made it harder on him to get going in a lot of games

Woodbury's Offensive Development: I was very impressed with the offensive flashes we saw from Woodbury early in the year (especially against ISU) however, his offensive game has basically disappeared during almost all of the B10 season, he still looks rushed every time he gets the ball, I have no doubt he will improve over the next few years and the experience from this season will be very valuable

Lack of Signature Wins: We were oh so close in many games this year but just couldn't pull one out, it will keep us out of the tournament this year barring a major run in the BTT but it's not unexpected with how young of a team we are (301st in the nation in experience)

Overall: I'd give Iowa a solid B for this season, very close to a B+ if we had just pulled out one or two more games. Iowa is only losing one of their top 11 guys, the B10 is going to lose a lot of talent this year. The addition of a great shooter in Jok and a top 150 recruit who has had 2 seasons of practice and working out in B10 strength and conditioning programs should help us improve on offensive next year as well as the continued growth of our returning players, especially Gesell. Next year Iowa should be solidly in the tournament and finish in the upper division of the B10.
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One of my negatives on the season was Marble's play against the B10 elite, well I need to bump this because Marble was very good tonight on the road against the number one team 20 points on 7/15 shooting and 6 boards, played aggressive and got to the hoop and the foul line tonight.
 
I think Franny has them lined up to get into the big dance in his 5th year. Not bad considering where he started.
 
CAARHawk said:
Don't mistake when I used the word limitations with when I used the word role.

Seriously, you used an example of two players who were tragically bad at both when they were sophomores, but who you now praise for being good at both as an argument for players not developing.

Get the irony now?
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Ok let me simply this even more for you since you can't get the concept of what my point actually is here.

Marble as a PG plays under control,moves without the ball, takes good shots and looks for the open man. As a wing Marble stands around waiting for something to happen, then when he gets the ball he tends to force things that aren't there. So, the point is again, he is not the same player as a PG as he is when he is a wing.

White as a 3 or 4 plays the same way, but I find myself saying: "what the hell is he doing" quite often, he had a nice outlet pass to the ref last night, didn't take wide open mid-range shots and struggled in the half court, again. If White stays the same player the next two years, Iowa will not improve significantly unless the freshman pass him by, which could very well happen anyway.

These two were Iowa's best players after Gatens last year. With all the talk from each of them about getting better, I still don't see it, that is what is disappointing.

When I see May and Basabe, I don't see a whole lot of player development with those two, I see two guys that just have come to grips with who they are and play within themselves. It has nothing to do with their role on the team or their development. If you think May has developed since his freshman year, please point out in what facet of the game he is significantly better because there really isn't one, yeah he has "developed" but minimally, that is not a knock on him either, it is reality. Basabe has developed a 12-ft. jumper, but that is not what defines Mel. Mel is defined by playing hard, hitting the boards, being a good help defender, challenges shots and is an opportunistic scorer. Basabe averaged 10 ppg, just like Jarryd Cole, the advantage Basabe has over Cole is he plays his natural position and has more talent around him. Basabe next year, I think has a better than average year and it will be because he sticks to what he does best.

Roles, limitations or whatever other adjectives you want to use or not, don't define players. Understanding and accepting who you are as a player is what defines you. I am not comparing May/Basabe to any other season, I am only paying attention to this season, the past does not matter, today is reality, not yesterday.

So the message here again is, do what you do best and continue to work on the things that you don't. It is a mind set that players have to have, accept that you struggle in areas and get better. If White/Marble have done that, all I am saying is it hasn't shown itself this season because against really good teams Iowa's "best" players deficiencies have been exposed more than what they do well. That is a product of forcing things and not playing within one's self.
 
sportstalent said:
Ok let me simply this even more for you since you can't get the concept of what my point actually is here.

Marble as a PG plays under control,moves without the ball, takes good shots and looks for the open man. As a wing Marble stands around waiting for something to happen, then when he gets the ball he tends to force things that aren't there. So, the point is again, he is not the same player as a PG as he is when he is a wing.

White as a 3 or 4 plays the same way, but I find myself saying: "what the hell is he doing" quite often, he had a nice outlet pass to the ref last night, didn't take wide open mid-range shots and struggled in the half court, again. If White stays the same player the next two years, Iowa will not improve significantly unless the freshman pass him by, which could very well happen anyway.

These two were Iowa's best players after Gatens last year. With all the talk from each of them about getting better, I still don't see it, that is what is disappointing.

When I see May and Basabe, I don't see a whole lot of player development with those two, I see two guys that just have come to grips with who they are and play within themselves. It has nothing to do with their role on the team or their development. If you think May has developed since his freshman year, please point out in what facet of the game he is significantly better because there really isn't one, yeah he has "developed" but minimally, that is not a knock on him either, it is reality. Basabe has developed a 12-ft. jumper, but that is not what defines Mel. Mel is defined by playing hard, hitting the boards, being a good help defender, challenges shots and is an opportunistic scorer. Basabe averaged 10 ppg, just like Jarryd Cole, the advantage Basabe has over Cole is he plays his natural position and has more talent around him. Basabe next year, I think has a better than average year and it will be because he sticks to what he does best.

Roles, limitations or whatever other adjectives you want to use or not, don't define players. Understanding and accepting who you are as a player is what defines you. I am not comparing May/Basabe to any other season, I am only paying attention to this season, the past does not matter, today is reality, not yesterday.

So the message here again is, do what you do best and continue to work on the things that you don't. It is a mind set that players have to have, accept that you struggle in areas and get better. If White/Marble have done that, all I am saying is it hasn't shown itself this season because against really good teams Iowa's "best" players deficiencies have been exposed more than what they do well. That is a product of forcing things and not playing within one's self.
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Midrange jumper, ball handling, passing...that was easy.
 
If we are looking at this same record at this same time next season it should not surprise anyone if FrAN apathy starts to set in. Considering how much the upper and lower class men have played the last two years nobody will be able to play the "we are a young team" card anymore. I am hoping for a good showing in the BTT and in whatever tournament we do play in to help build enthusiasm going into next season.
 
hawkfan33 said:
He was not a good shooter before, and a much worse ball handler.
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This year Eric is shooting his highest overall FG% and his second highest 3 pt%, he shot under 40% overall one time and that was last season. He has never been a bad shooter, until he started missing everything last season and sat out, he was Iowa's best statistically 3-pt shooter.

If his ball handling skills were better he would start at the SG position right now. They are far better than he was as a freshman, but still not that good.

There is more talent around Eric and he looks better for it and that is not a knock on him whatsoever; he is playing the game and not thinking.
 
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