Racism unique to only Iowa within the college ranks?

[PCHawk]

What sucks for a lot of people is some want what Iowa provided, but it was taken away because some didn't like it. They should have just come out and said "we are hard as hell on you. That's how we turn nobodies into NFL players. If that's what you want, come to iowa. If you don't want it, don't come".

 

[RobHowe]

I agree with everything you said. But why in the hell did you suppress those who were calling this out earlier. I and others called out abuse tactics and wanted to question race issues but even bringing up abuse alone was hard enough.

You can't tell me you didn't see it. If you didn't then maybe Barta and KF didn't which I doubt. You made fun about Rhabdo concerns and allowed several posters especially Dean to harass those with concerns. ARob is a huge case in point. Some of us including TK got eviscerated about Faith. After all he was black (sarcasm). It didn't seem to bother you. The kinder posters more or less implied (look what a good black we have here. He s good with it). That was hell what the police did to him. You didn't seem to care.

Why now?

Now is as good as any but what changed?

Fair questions.

In the past, I've tried to keep the conversation here focused on Iowa athletics, for the most part. We tried to avoid politics, religion, social issues, etc. This year has blown the cover off of that.

I have no idea what the conversation will be on here moving forward but the line between sports and social issues is intertwined now more than ever. We're seeing that all over the country.

I wrote in a column two weeks ago that I should have asked questions about how many more blacks than whites are transferring out of the program. I should have researched black graduation rates here and seen other signs. I failed there.

I've been talking to ex players for years about issues in the program but none of them would go on record. They would tell me that one day it would come out. Maybe I should have pushed harder. I've reached out to A-Rob on a number of occasions. I think we saw how long these allegations stretch back and nobody said anything until now.

I could have done my job better. I always cared.

 

[4thngoal]

Oppression of black athletes in college football programs is not unique to one school. White privilege, unconscious bias and systemic racism is ingrained in all walks of life.

I see how some fans don't understand or care to understand why BLM is relevant and say all lives matter. They push back on kneeling for the anthem, refusing to understand why athletes are doing it, what that flag represents to them. If you don't love it, leave it. I see white people complain about how white people are treated and want to talk about black-on-black crime.

It's all disheartening and disgusting but in no way surprising. It's why we are at this point in this country when these atrocities should have been addressed years ago. It's why former players felt like they had to conform to a white culture in the Iowa Football building.

I truly believe change is coming. The people holding strong to a belief that there's no white privilege, unconscious bias and systemic racism will be left behind and become the minorities. It's going to take a lot of work, but I have faith in my kids and the next generations to come.

Rob I saved this just for you. Because you tend to be able to understand the complexity of things better than some.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong.
I feel like a little kid with two parents arguing and telling me to choose. I like being in the middle, I can see all sides that way. I know a lot of people and so does my wife. Everyone loves to come to us with their problems.
We talk to gay people about their plight and they have some very good points. We talk to African Americans and they have some good points. We talk to native Americans and they have some good points. We talk to military people and they have some good points. We talk to Mexicans and they have some good points. The list goes on and on.
We tend to try and stay in the middle and not lean very hard one way or another. We try and try to get people to see another point of view. It doesn't work very often, but the satisfaction when it does makes up for the times it doesn't.
So when it came to Iowa sports, like I said I know someone who dropped out. He is white. He never said anyone was racist towards him,. but obviously did not enjoy his time at Iowa. It happens. But we can't run around screaming racism and oppression and especially things like white privilege or systematic racism over a handful of people who had a bad experience while attending the University throughout all the years.
The flag issue, like I said I know how I feel about it, but I was attempting to understand when Colin did it. I was trying to see his point of view, so I could get others to see it.
But then how am I supposed to explain that to a Nascar fan who says, ok but now we can't fly the rebel flag either? I say they say it's racist, he says educate yourself. Blah blah blah. So he feels like he can't express himself. Even if he tries to see the other side and I can start to get him there, he says but the other side is not trying to see my side and he is right.
Then along come the 3% with their flag and say hey we are not racist even though we got some bad publicity about it (the university should be able to understand that) and they have points of view that they want people to see.
Everyone has a point.
So I saved this for you, because you as the media are supposed to stay unbiased.
But what if you had to cover all of college football? How do you do that? It's not as easy as people think. It's like being between two parents arguing and telling you to choose. Instead of saying, well if you took this part from that side and that other part from the other side, your problem would be solved. But you can't because everyone is right and everyone is wrong and unfortunately they only see the part about them being right. It's science, that's how the brain works. Everyone is flying a "flag" and everyone is insensitive about other "flags". That is the history of man and is the problem.
Now if you all will excuse me I have to find something else to do than watch or even apparently talk about football, that relaxes me, because college football is no longer a safe place to do that, but a cluster F.

 

[kicker22]

What sucks for a lot of people is some want what Iowa provided, but it was taken away because some didn't like it. They should have just come out and said "we are hard as hell on you. That's how we turn nobodies into NFL players. If that's what you want, come to iowa. If you don't want it, don't come".

Have I missed reading something somewhere that says the coaches can't be "hard as hell on you"? I could easily be mistaken but I don't think its that they're unwilling to work hard or that they're being worked too hard, but rather they don't want to be demoralized or belittled (racially, economically, etc) in the process.

 

[HawkGold]

Fair questions.

In the past, I've tried to keep the conversation here focused on Iowa athletics, for the most part. We tried to avoid politics, religion, social issues, etc. This year has blown the cover off of that.

I have no idea what the conversation will be on here moving forward but the line between sports and social issues is intertwined now more than ever. We're seeing that all over the country.

I wrote in a column two weeks ago that I should have asked questions about how many more blacks than whites are transferring out of the program. I should have researched black graduation rates here and seen other signs. I failed there.

I've been talking to ex players for years about issues in the program but none of them would go on record. They would tell me that one day it would come out. Maybe I should have pushed harder. I've reached out to A-Rob on a number of occasions. I think we saw how long these allegations stretch back and nobody said anything until now.

I could have done my job better. I always cared.

Thank you Rob. I mean that. Good job.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I have no idea what the conversation will be on here moving forward but the line between sports and social issues is intertwined now more than ever. We're seeing that all over the country.

Good post, but as someone who has been on here bince Day 1 and has firsthand knowledge of the shitshow you are walking yourself into, I have one piece of advice. Call your boy Jon Miller. This place will turn into a cesspool of idiocy if you let it linger too much longer. Ask Miller. He'll confirm it. I watched Miller go through not one, but two sets of convulsions about political shit on his old Scout Board and then this one. At first, everything was cool. Then he tried to put in some rules to reign in the political boards. Then he banned the first one and moved everyone to an OT board, which became a sounding board for butthurt men like myself to bitch about the nuking of the pol board, which then led to a bunch of bannings. Then, after he had been out of the OT/Pol game for awhile, he formed this board and foolishly set it up with pol/ot boards and the same shit happened. The man damned near lost his marbles. You're a nice guy, I don't want that to happen to you.

The bigger issue is that there haven't been any sports since March and between ESPN, ESPN 2, ESPN News, ESPNU NBCSN, FS1, FS2 and CBSSN, there is 192 hours of sports airtime that needs filled EACH DAY. But there is virtually nothing to report on. So the media has to make the story and we end up with a soap opera.

 

[PCHawk]

Have I missed reading something somewhere that says the coaches can't be "hard as hell on you"? I could easily be mistaken but I don't think its that they're unwilling to work hard or that they're being worked too hard, but rather they don't want to be demoralized or belittled (racially, economically, etc) in the process.

But like I said, some people were pushed so hard that they ended up reaching goals they never would have without it. Sure they can still be pushed hard without all the other crap. Just not quite as hard. And without that extra little push, they would have never reached their goals. Now do I personally think I would want to go through that? Hell no. But there are a lot of people who are glad as hell they did. I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing the days of sending 2 star guys to the NFL are over.

 

[HawkGold]

Rob I saved this just for you. Because you tend to be able to understand the complexity of things better than some.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong.
I feel like a little kid with two parents arguing and telling me to choose. I like being in the middle, I can see all sides that way. I know a lot of people and so does my wife. Everyone loves to come to us with their problems.
We talk to gay people about their plight and they have some very good points. We talk to African Americans and they have some good points. We talk to native Americans and they have some good points. We talk to military people and they have some good points. We talk to Mexicans and they have some good points. The list goes on and on.
We tend to try and stay in the middle and not lean very hard one way or another. We try and try to get people to see another point of view. It doesn't work very often, but the satisfaction when it does makes up for the times it doesn't.
So when it came to Iowa sports, like I said I know someone who dropped out. He is white. He never said anyone was racist towards him,. but obviously did not enjoy his time at Iowa. It happens. But we can't run around screaming racism and oppression and especially things like white privilege or systematic racism over a handful of people who have attended the University throughout the years.
The flag issue, like I said I know how I feel about it, but I was attempting to understand when Colin did it. I was trying to see his point of view, so I could get others to see it.
But then how am I supposed to explain that to a Nascar fan who says, ok but now we can't fly the rebel flag either? I say they say it's racist, he says educate yourself. Blah blah blah. So he feels like he can't express himself. Even if he tries to see the other side and I can start to get him there, he says but the other side is not trying to see my side and he is right.
Then along come the 3% with their flag and say hey we are not racist even though we got some bad publicity about it (the university should be able to understand that) and they have points of view that they want people to see.
Everyone has a point.
So I saved this for you, because you as the media are supposed to stay unbiased.
But what if you had to cover all of college football? How do you do that? It's not as easy as people think. It's like being between two parents arguing and telling you to choose. Instead of ssyiy well if you took this part from that side and that other part from the other side, your problem would be solved. But you can't because everyone is right and everyone is wrong and unfortunately they only see the part about them being right. It's science, that's how the brain works.
Now if you all will excuse me I have to find something else to do than watch or even apparently talk about football, that relaxes me, because college football is no longer a safe place to do that, but a cluster F.

You aren't the middle. You aren't far to the racist side. Your comments show ignorance. Your comments are equally as far from the middle as you are to the extreme. Someday I hope you and for sure your kids understand that.

 

[HawkGold]

But like I said, some people were pushed so hard that they ended up reaching goals they never would have without it. Sure they can still be pushed hard without all the other crap. Just not quite as hard. And without that extra little push, they would have never reached their goals. Now do I personally think I would want to go through that? Hell no. But there are a lot of people who are glad as hell they did. I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing the days of sending 2 star guys to the NFL are over.

PC try and figure this out. In some ways I am a better person for having survived severe child abuse. Never should a child have to go thru that. Faith should never had to go thru a gun aimed at him. Why is that not understood. No one should be abused on account of race for motivation. Let me do it in another angle. You simple moron with no college degree. You are scum and need to get it together. You should never breed you asshole stupid white trailer trash. You shouldn't even be driving thru Ankeny two cell lazy ass criminal. What in the hell are you laying carpet in North Liberty. The police should check out scum like you. There was a theft in the neighborhood you are laying carpet in. I have my gun aimed at you while I check you out white trash. One move and. The police will shoot you dead.

What I just did is not ok unless it makes you a better flooring guy right?

 

[PCHawk]

PC try and figure this out. In some ways I am a better person for having survived severe child abuse. Never should a child have to go thru that. Faith should never had to go thru a gun aimed at him. Why is that not understood. No one should be abused on account of race for motivation. Let me do it in another angle. You simple moron with no college degree. You are scum and need to get it together. You should never breed you asshole stupid white trailer trash. You shouldn't even be driving thru Ankeny two cell lazy ass criminal. What in the hell are you laying carpet in North Liberty. The police should check out scum like you. There was a theft in the neighborhood you are laying carpet in. I have my gun aimed at you while I check you out white trash. One move and. The police will shoot you dead.

What I just did is not ok unless it makes you a better flooring guy right?

I agree that what Faith went through is bullshit. I have kids so it's pretty obvious where I stand on child abuse. I agree that I wouldn't want to deal with the shit iowa football players had to deal with. My post was to say it sucks that people don't have the option anymore. Just because you and I think its bullshit, doesn't mean other people do. Not everyone thinks the same or handles things the same. This movement to unify the world into one way of thinking is both stupid and impossible.

And as far as your rambling to fake demean me goes, that sgit doesn't bother me at all. I'm a firm believer in fixing yourself to not be affected by what other people say instead of futilely trying to conform the world around you.

 

[HawkGold]

I agree that what Faith went through is bullshit. I have kids so it's pretty obvious where I stand on child abuse. I agree that I wouldn't want to deal with the shit iowa football players had to deal with. My post was to say it sucks that people don't have the option anymore. Just because you and I think its bullshit, doesn't mean other people do. Not everyone thinks the same or handles things the same. This movement to unify the world into one way of thinking is both stupid and impossible.

And as far as your rambling to fake demean me goes, that sgit doesn't bother me at all. I'm a firm believer in fixing yourself to not be affected by what other people say instead of futilely trying to conform the world around you.

You should change because it's the right thing to do. No other reason.

 

[kicker22]

Rob I saved this just for you. Because you tend to be able to understand the complexity of things better than some.
Everyone is right and everyone is wrong.
I feel like a little kid with two parents arguing and telling me to choose. I like being in the middle, I can see all sides that way. I know a lot of people and so does my wife. Everyone loves to come to us with their problems.
We talk to gay people about their plight and they have some very good points. We talk to African Americans and they have some good points. We talk to native Americans and they have some good points. We talk to military people and they have some good points. We talk to Mexicans and they have some good points. The list goes on and on.
We tend to try and stay in the middle and not lean very hard one way or another. We try and try to get people to see another point of view. It doesn't work very often, but the satisfaction when it does makes up for the times it doesn't.
So when it came to Iowa sports, like I said I know someone who dropped out. He is white. He never said anyone was racist towards him,. but obviously did not enjoy his time at Iowa. It happens. But we can't run around screaming racism and oppression and especially things like white privilege or systematic racism over a handful of people who have attended the University throughout the years.
The flag issue, like I said I know how I feel about it, but I was attempting to understand when Colin did it. I was trying to see his point of view, so I could get others to see it.
But then how am I supposed to explain that to a Nascar fan who says, ok but now we can't fly the rebel flag either? I say they say it's racist, he says educate yourself. Blah blah blah. So he feels like he can't express himself. Even if he tries to see the other side and I can start to get him there, he says but the other side is not trying to see my side and he is right.
Then along come the 3% with their flag and say hey we are not racist even though we got some bad publicity about it (the university should be able to understand that) and they have points of view that they want people to see.
Everyone has a point.
So I saved this for you, because you as the media are supposed to stay unbiased.
But what if you had to cover all of college football? How do you do that? It's not as easy as people think. It's like being between two parents arguing and telling you to choose. Instead of ssyiy well if you took this part from that side and that other part from the other side, your problem would be solved. But you can't because everyone is right and everyone is wrong and unfortunately they only see the part about them being right. It's science, that's how the brain works.
Now if you all will excuse me I have to find something else to do than watch or even apparently talk about football, that relaxes me, because college football is no longer a safe place to do that, but a cluster F.

You were expressing an opinion earlier and I shouldn't have came after it the way I did so I want to open this up not in an attempt to come after to you but to try to see things from a similar perspective. I've been in the coaching profession for 20+ years so I tend to be incredibly stubborn with regards to the Doyle situation. That said if it were my program, and realizing that you can't please everyone, if racism, white privilege, or unethical behavior of my self or staff was ever brought up by a single individual, handful of individuals, or from the masses its something I can't afford not to take seriously and immediately act upon it. Not for the fear of a which hunt or mob mentality, but simply because if its something that makes a player uncomfortable or feel belittled, then I've failed them as a coach and need to address it moving forward to avoid letting down an athlete in a similar fashion in the future.

We have differing opinions on the white privilege/systemic racism issue, but I believe it exists and whether intended or a total misunderstanding, I think it needs to be addressed and heard.

With regards to the issue concerning the flags on the surface, and I'll admit I've not done my homework with regards to the history of the flags but IMO the the rebel flag (as well as the Nazi flag) symbolizes, not necessarily slavery, but more so a superiority/inferiority complex. Which I think, as you indicated, despite being seen as a freedom of speech has become a symbol of oppression and hatred. Again as you said in your argument, I'm sure there's a historical meaning to it, but I think it presents itself as a symbol that NASCAR would rather not be synonymous with. Although I think you have a compelling argument with regards to freedom of expression that I don't have a valid argument against.

 

[Ree4]

Yeah it was. Protecting our interest.
Besides when some dictator is slaughtering his own people by the thousands, crapping in gold plated toilets while his people starved, well if you can't get behind getting rid of him, I seriously wonder where your priorities are as a human being.

"Our" interest? Not mine. That is not why we went to war and you damn well know it. More civilians and troops have died as a direct result of our actions than the total number of people that Sadaam killed. Guess that's just collateral damage .

 

[Fryowa]

Bet my average was higher than yours.

The bigger issue is that there haven't been any sports since March and between ESPN, ESPN 2, ESPN News, ESPNU NBCSN, FS1, FS2 and CBSSN, there is 192 hours of sports airtime that needs filled EACH DAY. But there is virtually nothing to report on. So the media has to make the story and we end up with a soap opera.[/QUOTE]
216.

You forgot RFD TV.

If calf roping ain't a sport I'll kiss your ass.

 

[kicker22]

But like I said, some people were pushed so hard that they ended up reaching goals they never would have without it. Sure they can still be pushed hard without all the other crap. Just not quite as hard. And without that extra little push, they would have never reached their goals. Now do I personally think I would want to go through that? Hell no. But there are a lot of people who are glad as hell they did. I could be wrong and I hope I'm wrong, but I'm guessing the days of sending 2 star guys to the NFL are over.

I think there's a great deal of validity to your post. Doyle was one of the best at what what he did an a phenomenal motivator who happened to cross the line which cost him his job. I think it's very possible to push people people above and beyond their limits, so to speak, but in a way where they didn't feel attacked. I think that Raimond Braithwaite was privileged to work along side him over the years and can continue to motivate and push players to achieve greatness, but in a healthier environment. I would venture to say that no one went through the program unappreciative of what he did for them, but rather took offense to the methods he used to get them there.

 

[PCHawk]

You should change because it's the right thing to do. No other reason.

Change what? You mean me specifically or people in general?

 

[HawkGold]

Change what? You mean me specifically or people in general?

One person at a time.

 

[4thngoal]

You aren't the middle. You aren't far to the racist side. Your comments show ignorance. Your comments are equally as far from the middle as you are to the extreme. Someday I hope you and for sure your kids understand that.

Are you white? How many African Americans have come to you in the last week? I'm not racist but you are a closed minded person.
Or maybe you are young physically or mentally flying your flag all proud.
Some advice from long ago.
They [Young People] have exalted notions, because they have not been humbled by life or learned its necessary limitations; moreover, their hopeful disposition makes them think themselves equal to great things -- and that means having exalted notions. They would always rather do noble deeds than useful ones: Their lives are regulated more by moral feeling than by reasoning -- all their mistakes are in the direction of doing things excessively and vehemently. They overdo everything -- they love too much, hate too much, and the same with everything else.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

I think there's a great deal of validity to your post. Doyle was one of the best at what what he did an a phenomenal motivator who happened to cross the line which cost him his job. I think it's very possible to push people people above and beyond their limits, so to speak, but in a way where they didn't feel attacked. I think that Raimond Braithwaite was privileged to work along side him over the years and can continue to motivate and push players to achieve greatness, but in a healthier environment. I would venture to say that no one went through the program unappreciative of what he did for them, but rather took offense to the methods he used to get them there.

I think this is well stated. There's a line that can be crossed, and Doyle, unwittingly or not, crossed it.

Now, to be fair to coaches, that "line" is constantly being revised, not just in sports, but overall. That's where we need to be careful as a society.

For example, I was reading a story the other night where an African-American women was pulled over for a traffic infraction. Before the police officer even said anything, she began yelling that she didn't "feel safe" and therefore refused to cooperate.

I think we can all agree that there are cases where "the line" can become a bit ridiculous. An analog to sports could be a player interpreting yelling "harder!" or "wrap up!" or "hustle!" or whatever, as abuse. How do coaches respond to that, and where does the "line" become unreasonable? That's going to be the challenge moving forward.

 

[kicker22]

I think this is well stated. There's a line that can be crossed, and Doyle, unwittingly or not, crossed it.

Now, to be fair to coaches, that "line" is constantly being revised, not just in sports, but overall. That's where we need to be careful as a society.

For example, I was reading a story the other night where an African-American women was pulled over for a traffic infraction. Before the police officer even said anything, she began yelling that she didn't "feel safe" and therefore refused to cooperate.

I think we can all agree that there are cases where "the line" can become a bit ridiculous. An analog to sports could be a player interpreting yelling "harder!" or "wrap up!" or "hustle!" or whatever, as abuse. How do coaches respond to that, and where does the "line" become unreasonable? That's going to be the challenge moving forward.

Very good point. I coach club soccer under the umbrella of US Soccer. In our yearly mandatory training videos there's a great deal of time dedicated to the topic of what could be identified as abuse in sports and its very eye opening with regards to what can be construed as crossing the line.