Poll: Who's Going To Win Tuesday?

[Northside Hawk]

So, Oregon's governor has not only limited Thanksgiving gatherings to six people, she has encouraged neighbors to turn in violators to the police. She likens such a violation to that of a loud party and says she is only trying to save the lives of and protect fellow Oregonians.

Meanwhile the city of Portland was up for grabs every evening this past summer with some of the worst violence seen anywhere in the country and social distancing violated at every turn.

Governor Kate Brown seemed to have to problem with that...

 

[Northside Hawk]

Looks like Trump is finally coming around "for the good of the country"; his people are beginning to initiate the transition, and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump concedes soon.

Look, its not a secret that I supported, and voted, for Trump. And you know where I stand on how Democrats tried to shut the country down. But Trump's sore loser mentality isn't helping him here. It's playing out like the classic "Boy Who Cried Wolf" scenario. There is too much smoke in key battleground states with potential voter fraud to ignore, but even many of Trump's own people are so sick of his attitude that any evidence has little chance of going to trial. The one time he needs it the most.

He may have gotten screwed, but sometimes you have to move on, because that's what people do when they get screwed in life. Instead he reacts like the 1972 Olympic Basketball team, who still can't be bothered to accept their silver medals because they were screwed out of the gold.

Forget the fact that others got screwed a lot worse at those games, starting with the eleven Israeli athletes.

 

[HuckFinn]

So, Oregon's governor has not only limited Thanksgiving gatherings to six people, she has encouraged neighbors to turn in violators to the police. She likens such a violation to that of a loud party and says she is only trying to save the lives of and protect fellow Oregonians.

Meanwhile the city of Portland was up for grabs every evening this past summer with some of the worst violence seen anywhere in the country and social distancing violated at every turn.

Governor Kate Brown seemed to have to problem with that...

One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Northside Hawk]

One has nothing to do with the other.

So we lock up law abiding humans like animals and then allow law breaking animals to run amok.

Can't have it both ways. If large group gatherings are helping spread covid then property destroying anarchists have to be included in this definition.

Brown's act is a classic case of a power hungry lawmaker telling her people that they can't live properly on their own.

Some states are threatening 30 days jail time for violators of this ordinance. Great! Let's throw them into places already overrun with outbreaks.

 

[HuckFinn]

One has nothing to do with the other.

So we lock up law abiding humans like animals and then allow law breaking animals to run amok.

Can't have it both ways. If large group gatherings are helping spread covid then property destroying anarchists have to be included in this definition.

Brown's act is a classic case of a power hungry lawmaker telling her people that they can't live properly on their own.

Some states are threatening 30 days jail time for violators of this ordinance. Great! Let's throw them into places already overrun with outbreaks.

This post makes absolutely no sense. You are still spewing right wing bs as millions of Americans are infected with Covid and 10’s of thousands are dying. Gee. A political leader takes action to help keep people safe and you have a hissy fit. Meanwhile Trump’s administration sits on their ass, denies science, and outright lies to us about the pandemic. Additionally, Most of the anarchists are in fact right wing Nazi’s. Most Other lawbreakers are likely confirmed criminals. Telling people they can’t live properly on their own? Are you deaf, dumb, and blind? Clearly because of deniers like you, that is quite obviously true. And to be clear, the vast majority of them voted for Donnie. Thank God he is done. Northside, stick to Hawkeye sports. You do ok on that topic.

 

[Northside Hawk]

This post makes absolutely no sense. You are still spewing right wing bs as millions of Americans are infected with Covid and 10’s of thousands are dying. Gee. A political leader takes action to help keep people safe and you have a hissy fit. Meanwhile Trump’s administration sits on their ass, denies science, and outright lies to us about the pandemic. Additionally, Most of the anarchists are in fact right wing Nazi’s. Most Other lawbreakers are likely confirmed criminals. Telling people they can’t live properly on their own? Are you deaf, dumb, and blind? Clearly because of deniers like you, that is quite obviously true. And to be clear, the vast majority of them voted for Donnie. Thank God he is done. Northside, stick to Hawkeye sports. You do ok on that topic.

The virus doesn't discriminate. It doesn't care if your intentions are good (family gatherings) or bad (violent protesting) It doesn't care. You run the risk of getting sick either way. That's been backed up by science and doctors. And as a grown adult I weigh the risk with everything I do, or don't do (Ever worn a mask on a treadmill or elliptical-its not easy). That's the only point I'm trying to make and it makes complete sense. And if you don't think government has been trying to dictate how we live then you haven't been paying much attention the last 200 years. Even the pilgrims knew what to do when European government tried to regulate how they live.

Look. I will admit again. The candidate I voted for is making a Supreme ass out of himself. He has chosen to lash out at all demons, real and implied, since he took office. It got old. Now he may have a legit gripe and its not going to go near a trial because even many of his own people are ready to move on from him.

Election fraud is nothing new. It got JFK in office in 1960. Clinton bribed Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996 and Perot stole enough popular votes from Bush and Dole to make the difference.

Democrats have gotten screwed as well. Gore should have been elected in 2000 but when it came down to Florida and Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida Gore had no chance.

Ask citizens of Portland and Seattle how safe they felt for themselves and their property when hooligans were running amok and taking over entire square blocks of cities. And when Minneapolis was threatening to defend police. Listen to Chicago sports talk show hosts talk about sleepness nights as gunfire and police sirens wailed through their neighborhoods all night. And again, who would want to encourage sending people to jail for something as innocuous as a holiday family gathering when jails are some of the hottest infection spots in the country.

I'm a republican and I could see Trump was lying. I have the wherewithal to believe him, not believe him, and make my own judgements, thank you very much.

 

[kicker22]

So, Oregon's governor has not only limited Thanksgiving gatherings to six people, she has encouraged neighbors to turn in violators to the police. She likens such a violation to that of a loud party and says she is only trying to save the lives of and protect fellow Oregonians.

Meanwhile the city of Portland was up for grabs every evening this past summer with some of the worst violence seen anywhere in the country and social distancing violated at every turn.

Governor Kate Brown seemed to have to problem with that...

Here's how I see it, and it doesn't apply to just Oregon. If Governor's are going to make proclamations like that then they need to make damn sure that they're shutting everything else down as well. If everything is shutdown, I have no problem with following an ordinance like that. But in terms of how things have been handled in Iowa, If Covid Kimmy decided to make that proclamation (1) I'd be shocked the number of PD's and Sheriff's departments that would actually arrest or even follow up with those calls and (2) what difference does it make if we were to limit Thanksgiving gatherings when we're letting bars stay open until 10:00 and casinos are still open. I see it making as much sense as shutting down youth leagues and rec sports while allowing high school and college to continue uninterrupted.

 

[HuckFinn]

The virus doesn't discriminate. It doesn't care if your intentions are good (family gatherings) or bad (violent protesting) It doesn't care. You run the risk of getting sick either way. That's been backed up by science and doctors. And as a grown adult I weigh the risk with everything I do, or don't do (Ever worn a mask on a treadmill or elliptical-its not easy). That's the only point I'm trying to make and it makes complete sense. And if you don't think government has been trying to dictate how we live then you haven't been paying much attention the last 200 years. Even the pilgrims knew what to do when European government tried to regulate how they live.

Look. I will admit again. The candidate I voted for is making a Supreme ass out of himself. He has chosen to lash out at all demons, real and implied, since he took office. It got old. Now he may have a legit gripe and its not going to go near a trial because even many of his own people are ready to move on from him.

Election fraud is nothing new. It got JFK in office in 1960. Clinton bribed Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996 and Perot stole enough popular votes from Bush and Dole to make the difference.

Democrats have gotten screwed as well. Gore should have been elected in 2000 but when it came down to Florida and Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida Gore had no chance.

Ask citizens of Portland and Seattle how safe they felt for themselves and their property when hooligans were running amok and taking over entire square blocks of cities. And when Minneapolis was threatening to defend police. Listen to Chicago sports talk show hosts talk about sleepness nights as gunfire and police sirens wailed through their neighborhoods all night. And again, who would want to encourage sending people to jail for something as innocuous as a holiday family gathering when jails are some of the hottest infection spots in the country.

I'm a republican and I could see Trump was lying. I have the wherewithal to believe him, not believe him, and make my own judgements, thank you very much.

Not trying to change your mind. Thanks for the response.

 

[Fryowa]

I see it making as much sense as shutting down youth leagues and rec sports while allowing high school and college to continue uninterrupted.

Not putting a dog in the covid fight whatsoever, but this point cannot be emphasized enough.

I have coached youth and high school sports extensively, and I can say without question that the two middle school seasons are by far and away the most important developmentally for athletes. It's not even a question. Put a kid on a HS football field who didn't get to play in middle school where he would learn to tackle (and be tackled) and it’s going to be lots of trouble. Put a kid with no junior high baseball experience up to bat against even a JV pitcher and it’s going to be a ride on the struggle bus from that point forward for almost all of them. You can’t learn those experiences by practicing. You have to do them to get capable at it.

My kid and every other middle schooler in Iowa have now had two seasons shut down before they really even got started (baseball this past summer and basketball a week ago), and these kids are going to be in trouble going into high school.

I don't give two damns about who the governor is, but this makes zero sense. Cancel middle school sports because of crowds and social distancing, but not JV and Varsity sports? When high school sports unquestionably involve more people in the gym?

If we're being honest, the restrictions are being put in place to help stop the spread of C19. That's the intent whether someone agrees with it or not (I don't care either way what someone's opinion is). So if that's the intent, why do we allow sports that involve much more travel and many more people inside the facilities? It's more effective fighting C19 when a gym can be full of HS players and 2 parents each than it is for me to have 7 kids in the gym for a batting practice when we wear masks and stay 6 feet apart (actually more like 20 feet)?

Why are HS sports more important? Is it because seniors don't have a "next year?"

Is it because they are just plain more important?

If the answer to those questions is "yes," then to me schools aren't doing this to stop C19, they're saying HS sports are worth the risk even though they're more apt to cause spread. That's backwards, folks. It doesn’t compute.

 

[kicker22]

Not putting a dog in the covid fight whatsoever, but this point cannot be emphasized enough.

I have coached youth and high school sports extensively, and I can say without question that the two middle school seasons are by far and away the most important developmentally for athletes. It's not even a question. Put a kid on a HS football field who didn't get to play in middle school where he would learn to tackle (and be tackled) and it’s going to be lots of trouble. Put a kid with no junior high baseball experience up to bat against even a JV pitcher and it’s going to be a ride on the struggle bus from that point forward for almost all of them. You can’t learn those experiences by practicing. You have to do them to get capable at it.

My kid and every other middle schooler in Iowa have now had two seasons shut down before they really even got started (baseball this past summer and basketball a week ago), and these kids are going to be in trouble going into high school.

I don't give two damns about who the governor is, but this makes zero sense. Cancel middle school sports because of crowds and social distancing, but not JV and Varsity sports? When high school sports unquestionably involve more people in the gym?

If we're being honest, the restrictions are being put in place to help stop the spread of C19. That's the intent whether someone agrees with it or not (I don't care either way what someone's opinion is). So if that's the intent, why do we allow sports that involve much more travel and many more people inside the facilities? It's more effective fighting C19 when a gym can be full of HS players and 2 parents each than it is for me to have 7 kids in the gym for a batting practice when we wear masks and stay 6 feet apart (actually more like 20 feet)?

Why are HS sports more important? Is it because seniors don't have a "next year?"

Is it because they are just plain more important?

If the answer to those questions is "yes," then to me schools aren't doing this to stop C19, they're saying HS sports are worth the risk even though they're more apt to cause spread. That's backwards, folks. It doesn’t compute.

My oldest son (age 10) plays basketball during the fall and winter and soccer year round. I understand that there is a greater risk of spreading the virus indoors, but every facility is different and the rules should not apply across the board if "public safety" is the main concern. We never got started with basketball before the new sanctions went in place but they play in high school gyms so I'm sure the state has some great thought out study as to how high schoolers won't spread the bug, but the younger kids would when they'd have the exact same restrictions in place.

But why would that same mentality apply to the indoor soccer facility we have access to. We'd probably have the same amount of kids that would be at a high school basketball practice. We had already implemented that all the facility was closed to anyone other than players and coaches who would all be wearing masks at all times (including while they were participating) and practicing social distancing. There is also that miniscule fact that we train in what is close to a 100,000 square yard facility with probably as many players at a training session as you'd have in a high school gym. In addition to that we don't practice immediately after school so participants can actually go home and do temperature checks, and have strict guidelines on shutting teams down if there is a possible exposure. I know High School coaches and have talked to them as well, and not a single one of them has told me that their policies are as strict as the ones we have in place. And we're not even looking at competition right now but simply optional training sessions. It's purely idiotic.

 

[Fryowa]

My oldest son (age 10) plays basketball during the fall and winter and soccer year round. I understand that there is a greater risk of spreading the virus indoors, but every facility is different and the rules should not apply across the board if "public safety" is the main concern. We never got started with basketball before the new sanctions went in place but they play in high school gyms so I'm sure the state has some great thought out study as to how high schoolers won't spread the bug, but the younger kids would when they'd have the exact same restrictions in place.

But why would that same mentality apply to the indoor soccer facility we have access to. We'd probably have the same amount of kids that would be at a high school basketball practice. We had already implemented that all the facility was closed to anyone other than players and coaches who would all be wearing masks at all times (including while they were participating) and practicing social distancing. There is also that miniscule fact that we train in what is close to a 100,000 square yard facility with probably as many players at a training session as you'd have in a high school gym. In addition to that we don't practice immediately after school so participants can actually go home and do temperature checks, and have strict guidelines on shutting teams down if there is a possible exposure. I know High School coaches and have talked to them as well, and not a single one of them has told me that their policies are as strict as the ones we have in place. And we're not even looking at competition right now but simply optional training sessions. It's purely idiotic.

My issue is that the state of Iowa is speaking out of both sides of its mouth (I don't really expect anything leess out of government).

They're saying we want to stop the spread of covid so we're going to prohibit sporting events...but not the sporting events most at-risk to spread covid...

As soon as the proclamation went into effect I got a call from our AD that our private BP sessions were called off, and a minute later got an email saying our middle school basketball season was cancelled. I had 8 people in the gym for batting practice including myself, and we wore masks and distanced at the school's request. I couldn't fudge on that even if I wanted because the surveillance cameras are on 24/7.

Our basketball games had maybe 50 people in the entire gym including parents/refs/players/coaches, and we had to distance even within the same family (even a mom/dad had to be 6' apart).

But it's ok to have college and HS sports which have hundreds and eve thousands of people in the same spaces. My issue isn't with pausing sports, it's with it not being equal for everyone. the state of IA can't say they're trying to prevent the spread of covid by cancelling the safest events and continuing to hold the ones most at-risk for spread.

For F's sake, It's 2020. What's to prevent us from streaming middle school games if they don't want fans? Get one person to volunteer to stream it on their phone if a school doesn't have a camera. A tripod is $20 on Amazon and designate one parent to point it at the floor. Then you'd have 15 players tops, 2 refs, 4 coaches, a scoreboard operator, and 1 guy running a phone/camera. 23 people. How is that more dangerous than 100 people in a gym for a varsity game?

 

[kicker22]

My issue is that the state of Iowa is speaking out of both sides of its mouth (I don't really expect anything leess out of government).

They're saying we want to stop the spread of covid so we're going to prohibit sporting events...but not the sporting events most at-risk to spread covid...

As soon as the proclamation went into effect I got a call from our AD that our private BP sessions were called off, and a minute later got an email saying our middle school basketball season was cancelled. I had 8 people in the gym for batting practice including myself, and we wore masks and distanced at the school's request. I couldn't fudge on that even if I wanted because the surveillance cameras are on 24/7.

Our basketball games had maybe 50 people in the entire gym including parents/refs/players/coaches, and we had to distance even within the same family (even a mom/dad had to be 6' apart).

But it's ok to have college and HS sports which have hundreds and eve thousands of people in the same spaces. My issue isn't with pausing sports, it's with it not being equal for everyone. the state of IA can't say they're trying to prevent the spread of covid by cancelling the safest events and continuing to hold the ones most at-risk for spread.

For F's sake, It's 2020. What's to prevent us from streaming middle school games if they don't want fans? Get one person to volunteer to stream it on their phone if a school doesn't have a camera. A tripod is $20 on Amazon and designate one parent to point it at the floor. Then you'd have 15 players tops, 2 refs, 4 coaches, a scoreboard operator, and 1 guy running a phone/camera. 23 people. How is that more dangerous than 100 people in a gym for a varsity game?

Agree 100% its all about consistency and I don't know what the answer is. How do you shut the doors to programs such as rec and club sports but leave casinos untouched. Or recommend/mandate small group events when you can walk into a gas station (only picked Casey's because I personally witnessed it yesterday) with 20 customers in it and be the only individual, who isn't an employee, wearing one.

Why is it the kids are the ones being punished when they're the ones that are complying. Is it because they're not able to vote? Aren't directly paying taxes? And don't have a political affiliation. Like you, I'm all for stopping the spread and doing my part, but I'm tired of watching the things that matter most to my kids get stripped away just so I can step out into the real world and see individuals that have no kids continue on with business as usual because they'd rather get sick then wear a mask.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Here's how I see it, and it doesn't apply to just Oregon. If Governor's are going to make proclamations like that then they need to make damn sure that they're shutting everything else down as well. If everything is shutdown, I have no problem with following an ordinance like that. But in terms of how things have been handled in Iowa, If Covid Kimmy decided to make that proclamation (1) I'd be shocked the number of PD's and Sheriff's departments that would actually arrest or even follow up with those calls and (2) what difference does it make if we were to limit Thanksgiving gatherings when we're letting bars stay open until 10:00 and casinos are still open. I see it making as much sense as shutting down youth leagues and rec sports while allowing high school and college to continue uninterrupted.

We're going to see a lot of fatalities from people who suffer any mental issue you can name and are forced to isolate for the holidays. And it will never be mentioned by the drive by's. Teenage depression is a real concern right now.

Hopefully vaccines will change how this whole mess is perceived at least as much as they will actually help. Both factors are equally critical.

 

[Gibsonian]

The virus doesn't discriminate. It doesn't care if your intentions are good (family gatherings) or bad (violent protesting) It doesn't care. You run the risk of getting sick either way. That's been backed up by science and doctors. And as a grown adult I weigh the risk with everything I do, or don't do (Ever worn a mask on a treadmill or elliptical-its not easy). That's the only point I'm trying to make and it makes complete sense. And if you don't think government has been trying to dictate how we live then you haven't been paying much attention the last 200 years. Even the pilgrims knew what to do when European government tried to regulate how they live.

Look. I will admit again. The candidate I voted for is making a Supreme ass out of himself. He has chosen to lash out at all demons, real and implied, since he took office. It got old. Now he may have a legit gripe and its not going to go near a trial because even many of his own people are ready to move on from him.

Election fraud is nothing new. It got JFK in office in 1960. Clinton bribed Ross Perot in 1992 and 1996 and Perot stole enough popular votes from Bush and Dole to make the difference.

Democrats have gotten screwed as well. Gore should have been elected in 2000 but when it came down to Florida and Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida Gore had no chance.

Ask citizens of Portland and Seattle how safe they felt for themselves and their property when hooligans were running amok and taking over entire square blocks of cities. And when Minneapolis was threatening to defend police. Listen to Chicago sports talk show hosts talk about sleepness nights as gunfire and police sirens wailed through their neighborhoods all night. And again, who would want to encourage sending people to jail for something as innocuous as a holiday family gathering when jails are some of the hottest infection spots in the country.

I'm a republican and I could see Trump was lying. I have the wherewithal to believe him, not believe him, and make my own judgements, thank you very much.

Trump has no legit gripe, none. You don't lose 40 court cases with each judge dismissing your claims with scathing comments. He's trying to take something that's not his. Liar and cheat, worthless POS.

 

[Hillcrest1981]

Here is what is NOT going to happen: Trump is not going to win any lawsuits. Trump will not be President in late January. Trump will not run for office again in 2004. The reason why is that gives Donald 4 years to continue to say stupid s**t that will weaken his base. The guy can't shut up and I look forward to hearing more of his idiocy down the road. Eventually his followers will have a zen moment and say "wait a minute, what he is saying is not true!"

 

[kicker22]

We're going to see a lot of fatalities from people who suffer any mental issue you can name and are forced to isolate for the holidays. And it will never be mentioned by the drive by's. Teenage depression is a real concern right now.

Hopefully vaccines will change how this whole mess is perceived at least as much as they will actually help. Both factors are equally critical.

I work in the mental health field (on the court side) and your definitely right. The number of new teen committals that I've seen come through recently is disturbing. I've probably seen five times the number of teen committals come through in the last month then I'll see in a year, and without a doubt that number will skyrocket after the holidays.

 

[Fryowa]

I work in the mental health field (on the court side) and your definitely right. The number of new teen committals that I've seen come through recently is disturbing. I've probably seen five times the number of teen committals come through in the last month then I'll see in a year, and without a doubt that number will skyrocket after the holidays.

Hats off to you. I wouldn't be able to work in a field where I saw nothing but negativity and sadness all day everyday. I wouldn't be able to mentally handle it.

I have a cousin who has run a home for troubled youth for the last 27 years. He gets teen pregnancies, kids kicked out of home, kids in trouble with the legal system, runaways, homeless kids, basically he gets the ones who the legal and hospital system don't have anywhere for them to go.

I asked him one time how many of these kids actually get turned around, and I'll always remember he said 60% he'll never see again, 39% leave and get back in trouble, and maybe 1% he'll see in the community again someday with their shit together. He also told me he quit counting the number of kids who've gone through there that he sees on the news when they're adults getting arrested but it's in the hundreds. I couldn't deal with that sort of outcome for that many years.

 

[kicker22]

Hats off to you. I wouldn't be able to work in a field where I saw nothing but negativity and sadness all day everyday. I wouldn't be able to mentally handle it.

I have a cousin who has run a home for troubled youth for the last 27 years. He gets teen pregnancies, kids kicked out of home, kids in trouble with the legal system, runaways, homeless kids, basically he gets the ones who the legal and hospital system don't have anywhere for them to go.

I asked him one time how many of these kids actually get turned around, and I'll always remember he said 60% he'll never see again, 39% leave and get back in trouble, and maybe 1% he'll see in the community again someday with their shit together. He also told me he quit counting the number of kids who've gone through there that he sees on the news when they're adults getting arrested but it's in the hundreds. I couldn't deal with that sort of outcome for that many years.

The silver lining is that while there's a great deal of negativity and sadness there are also a number of success stories and people who appreciate the help and are able to get their lives back, which is very rewarding.

Youth's on the other hand are the part of my job that I absolutely hate and honestly would probably cause me to seek a new job in the event I was assigned to them regularly. To see where some of these kids come from and what they are put through, can haunt a person and it's even worse, when I have 3 young kids of my own. Way to often, when you see what these kids have been through on paper, there is absolutely no shock that there are underlying mental health issues they are dealing with, what surprises you is how they'd made it as long as they did without help and how long it took them to get the help they need and what its done to them.

I know exactly where your cousin is coming from with regards to the countless number of individuals he's seen in the news, but what bothers me even more is the number of people who blame law enforcement or point fingers at the hospitals/providers when something really bad happens yet refuse to point fingers at the legislators who continue to cut or reallocate funding creating the cracks in the system, or the stigma associated with mental illnesses in which people are too ashamed to publicly seek out the help they need until it's quite often too late for fear of how they'll be perceived.

 

[HuckFinn]

The silver lining is that while there's a great deal of negativity and sadness there are also a number of success stories and people who appreciate the help and are able to get their lives back, which is very rewarding.

Youth's on the other hand are the part of my job that I absolutely hate and honestly would probably cause me to seek a new job in the event I was assigned to them regularly. To see where some of these kids come from and what they are put through, can haunt a person and it's even worse, when I have 3 young kids of my own. Way to often, when you see what these kids have been through on paper, there is absolutely no shock that there are underlying mental health issues they are dealing with, what surprises you is how they'd made it as long as they did without help and how long it took them to get the help they need and what its done to them.

I know exactly where your cousin is coming from with regards to the countless number of individuals he's seen in the news, but what bothers me even more is the number of people who blame law enforcement or point fingers at the hospitals/providers when something really bad happens yet refuse to point fingers at the legislators who continue to cut or reallocate funding creating the cracks in the system, or the stigma associated with mental illnesses in which people are too ashamed to publicly seek out the help they need until it's quite often too late for fear of how they'll be perceived.

After 40 years as a public school teacher, administrator, as well as the father of 3, and the grandfather of 7, I can safely say that you know exactly what you are talking about.

 

[tailgater371]

Trump has no legit gripe, none. You don't lose 40 court cases with each judge dismissing your claims with scathing comments. He's trying to take something that's not his. Liar and cheat, worthless POS.

I want fraud free elections as much.as anyone and if it.was.suspected by all means look.into it that said how is it that none of his supporters that believe him don't wonder why there was no fraud in the states he won??