Poll: Who's Going To Win Tuesday?

[kicker22]

I know they are capable of small things like making insurance unaffordable for everyone and slightly changing how much you pay in taxes. I meant nothing changes in people's day to day lives. The country won't burn down or anything. At least not for 3 and a half more years until its time for dems to ratchet up black lives matter to sway votes again.

Or until Trump supporters decide to have another trip to the nation's capitol. Is it common for acting president's to incite a riot? Didn't realize that was a normal occurrence, but don't tend to follow politics to closely.

 

[PCHawk]

Or until Trump supporters decide to have another trip to the nation's capitol. Is it common for acting president's to incite a riot? Didn't realize that was a normal occurrence, but don't tend to follow politics to closely.

Nothing over the last 4 to 8 years have been normal. My rebuttal to people blaming Trump for that riot is, why do you think those people needed pushed to do it? Do you think black people needed someone to incite them to protest and riot? Or do you think they just felt like they needed to on their own? Sure Trump added some fuel to the fire by not fading away into the night, just like the media adds fuel to the fire by their coverage of police shootings during election years. But that doesn't mean the people don't already feel that way. Maybe instead of telling people on both sides to shut up and go away, we should try convincing people why they're wrong. If they're wrong.

 

[kicker22]

Nothing over the last 4 to 8 years have been normal. My rebuttal to people blaming Trump for that riot is, why do you think those people needed pushed to do it? Do you think black people needed someone to incite them to protest and riot? Or do you think they just felt like they needed to on their own? Sure Trump added some fuel to the fire by not fading away into the night, just like the media adds fuel to the fire by their coverage of police shootings during election years. But that doesn't mean the people don't already feel that way. Maybe instead of telling people on both sides to shut up and go away, we should try convincing people why they're wrong. If they're wrong.

So you have no problem with the leader of our nation stirring up the masses leading up to what unfolded on capitol hill? Putting the lives of not only the protestors in jeopardy but also the lives of law enforcement there to protect it. Or the fact that a president still in office is leading a rally to basically take over one of democracy's most iconic symbols?
Takes a real "leader" to hype up a crowd, telling them he'll march with them, and then watching it unfold from the white house. Or the real leader that applying pressure to Pence do something that he didn't have the authority to do. I'm sorry, I'm in no way saying that my view is right or yours is wrong, but that's not my definition of a leader.

His biggest duty as president is to protect the people of this country as well as this great nation. What he did was put law enforcement and the citizens of this nation in jeopardy and in my opinion, along with Donald Jr. and Guliani, helped stage a riot that put hundreds if not thousands of lives in jeopardy.

 

[PCHawk]

So you have no problem with the leader of our nation stirring up the masses leading up to what unfolded on capitol hill? Putting the lives of not only the protestors in jeopardy but also the lives of law enforcement there to protect it. Or the fact that a president still in office is leading a rally to basically take over one of democracy's most iconic symbols?
Takes a real "leader" to hype up a crowd, telling them he'll march with them, and then watching it unfold from the white house. Or the real leader that applying pressure to Pence do something that he didn't have the authority to do. I'm sorry, I'm in no way saying that my view is right or yours is wrong, but that's not my definition of a leader.

His biggest duty as president is to protect the people of this country as well as this great nation. What he did was put law enforcement and the citizens of this nation in jeopardy and in my opinion, along with Donald Jr. and Guliani, helped stage a riot that put hundreds if not thousands of lives in jeopardy.

2 things. First is I never said I have a do or don't have a problem with it. I said most people probably weren't there because of anything Trump said. There is videos and statistics all over the place that point to voter fraud. Trump is repeating them, but they are out there with or without his help. There are a lot of people that believe those videos and statistics and would protest because of it, reguardless of anything Trump said.

Second, if we want to talk about my opinion on the matter instead of my opinion on other people's opinions (which is all I've done up to this point) then I really don't know for sure. My opinion is no one knows for sure if the viter fraud was bad enough to change the results. What I do know is when democrats say there is voter fraud every election, then I can't help but assume its possible there was enough fraud to change the results.

Since both parties already agree that there is always voter fraud, why is it just accepted by anyone? I would rather Trump be in office more than Biden, but whats more important to me is cleaning up election day to the point where people can't say "there is always voter fraud". Its 2021, figure out a fool proof system for christ sake.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Orange Jumpsuit Looms Large

 

[PCHawk]

Also I think it was AOC (or whatever the hell her name is) that tweeted protests are supposed to make people uncomfortable. Well this one definitely did. Should people who think elections are rigged be ignored? Should people who think America has a systemic race problem be ignored? Or should people at least act like they care and try to fix the problem? I think they should have a news conference and break down every single voter fraud issue that Trump talks about and show where that stat came from, why its wrong, what the real stat is, the proof of why its the real stat. Or what is going on in a video, why people are acting like that, what they are really doing during the video, and how they aren't really committing voter fraud. Break down ever single thing out there that points to fraud. If 50% of the population believes fraud happened, probably 95% of those people are reasonable enough people to follow what is said, maybe be a little skeptical, but not enough to continue caring. The other 5% are extremists and idiots and will never be convinced, but you can't please everyone. But at least make an effort to convince people.

 

[PCHawk]

Orange Jumpsuit Looms Large

I don't know man. Republicans thought Hilary would go to prison. Some people are above the law. Trump isn't a career politician tho so I'm not sure he fits in that category.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

There is of course voter fraud, but it's statistically so insignificant it's never been worth looking into. Spending millions, if not billions, looking into the fraction of a percent of the total votes that are fraudulent for the sake of saying we have a 100% fool proof system that gets us the same results as the crummy old 99.999835% fool proof system got us strikes me as an odd position for a supposedly fiscally conservative party to be taking. This is like me trying to get a plumbing business started and going door to door trying to convince people to let me tear their walls down to the studs looking for leaks. "Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't *every* homeowner want the peace of mind that comes with knowing there are no leaks?"

Also, Occam's Razor once again comes to mind.

Option A: one (and only one) of the two major parties in the USA has found a way to pull off widespread cheating within an extremely well organized and scrutinized election system.

Option B: a serial liar (and, in all likelihood, a clinically diagnosable narcissist) loses an election and wants everyone to know he was cheated.

For their own sake if nothing else, I hope someday at least a % of these Trumpers come to the realization that they have been fucked raw by that dude. He's a professional scammer. Go back and look at the things that were being written and said about him in NYC long before he was even a Republican, let alone POTUS. He is a snake oil salesman who pulled the same tricks on 10s of millions of vulnerable Americans as he did with Trump University, etc.

The American political system has a legitimate problem with fraud, but it's not hiding in the place Trump has managed to get the spotlight pointed.

 

[PCHawk]

There is of course voter fraud, but it's statistically so insignificant it's never been worth looking into. Spending millions, if not billions, looking into the fraction of a percent of the total votes that are fraudulent for the sake of saying we have a 100% fool proof system that gets us the same results as the crummy old 99.999835% fool proof system got us strikes me as an odd position for a supposedly fiscally conservative party to be taking. This is like me trying to get a plumbing business started and going door to door trying to convince people to let me tear their walls down to the studs looking for leaks. "Maybe it's just me, but shouldn't *every* homeowner want the peace of mind that comes with knowing there are no leaks?"

Also, Occam's Razor once again comes to mind.

Option A: one (and only one) of the two major parties in the USA has found a way to pull off widespread cheating within an extremely well organized and scrutinized election system.

Option B: a serial liar (and, in all likelihood, a clinically diagnosable narcissist) loses an election and wants everyone to know he was cheated.

For their own sake if nothing else, I hope someday at least a % of these Trumpers come to the realization that they have been fucked raw by that dude. He's a professional scammer. Go back and look at the things that were being written and said about him in NYC long before he was even a Republican, let alone POTUS. He is a snake oil salesman who pulled the same tricks on 10s of millions of vulnerable Americans as he did with Trump University, etc.

The American political system has a legitimate problem with fraud, but it's not hiding in the place Trump has managed to get the spotlight pointed.

You're right that you can't get it to 100% no fraud so it isn't worth trying. But this year is different with all the mail in voting. Left the door open for cheating on a larger scale.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I can tell you who won't win... the American public. We're all screwed.

 

[BILLYBOBSTEXAS]

I can tell you who won't win... the American public. We're all screwed.

I agree! Both parties are corrupt. I would be for only the military getting to use mail in voting.

 

[tailgater371]

2 things. First is I never said I have a do or don't have a problem with it. I said most people probably weren't there because of anything Trump said. There is videos and statistics all over the place that point to voter fraud. Trump is repeating them, but they are out there with or without his help. There are a lot of people that believe those videos and statistics and would protest because of it, reguardless of anything Trump said.

Second, if we want to talk about my opinion on the matter instead of my opinion on other people's opinions (which is all I've done up to this point) then I really don't know for sure. My opinion is no one knows for sure if the viter fraud was bad enough to change the results. What I do know is when democrats say there is voter fraud every election, then I can't help but assume its possible there was enough fraud to change the results.

Since both parties already agree that there is always voter fraud, why is it just accepted by anyone? I would rather Trump be in office more than Biden, but whats more important to me is cleaning up election day to the point where people can't say "there is always voter fraud". Its 2021, figure out a fool proof system for christ sake.

democrats don't cry fraud they cry suppression. Big difference. And in a year that people were given a way to vote that made it easy for the poor and working poor to vote republicans cry widespread fraud.

 

[kicker22]

democrats don't cry fraud they cry suppression. Big difference. And in a year that people were given a way to vote that made it easy for the poor and working poor to vote republicans cry widespread fraud.

I think the other side of it is not only did they have an easier time voting (whether right or wrong) but it’s almost as if he made it a point to get under their skin to get them to vote. Then went even further to act shocked by the number of mail in ballots that went toward Biden when he encouraged his supporters to vote at the polls. I can’t buy into the major conspiracy angle because to me the bigger question would be what would go through a persons head to deliberately go out of their way to attack so many races and demographics to encourage those people to vote against them.

 

[kicker22]

2 things. First is I never said I have a do or don't have a problem with it. I said most people probably weren't there because of anything Trump said. There is videos and statistics all over the place that point to voter fraud. Trump is repeating them, but they are out there with or without his help. There are a lot of people that believe those videos and statistics and would protest because of it, reguardless of anything Trump said.

Second, if we want to talk about my opinion on the matter instead of my opinion on other people's opinions (which is all I've done up to this point) then I really don't know for sure. My opinion is no one knows for sure if the viter fraud was bad enough to change the results. What I do know is when democrats say there is voter fraud every election, then I can't help but assume its possible there was enough fraud to change the results.

Since both parties already agree that there is always voter fraud, why is it just accepted by anyone? I would rather Trump be in office more than Biden, but whats more important to me is cleaning up election day to the point where people can't say "there is always voter fraud". Its 2021, figure out a fool proof system for christ sake.

Sorry for attacking you and misinterpreting where you were going with that. It just kills me that knowing how sensitive his supporters are right now and how divided we are politically, that he, Jr. and Giuliani would say what they did to “rally” their supporters knowing damn well what they were doing.

Just a shame that whatever good he did do in office that he should get credit for, will be completely overshadowed by his out of control ego and the way he used his position to incite an act that could very easily be viewed as an act of domestic terrorism in our nations capitol endangering both lives and the political system he took an oath to protect.

 

[PCHawk]

Sorry for attacking you and misinterpreting where you were going with that. It just kills me that knowing how sensitive his supporters are right now and how divided we are politically, that he, Jr. and Giuliani would say what they did to “rally” their supporters knowing damn well what they were doing.

Just a shame that whatever good he did do in office that he should get credit for, will be completely overshadowed by his out of control ego and the way he used his position to incite an act that could very easily be viewed as an act of domestic terrorism in our nations capitol endangering both lives and the political system he took an oath to protect.

Thanks man, no worries. I've got a question for you. If there was mass election fraud to rig the winner, you you think thats something worth fighting for? I'm kinda torn on that one.

 

[kicker22]

Thanks man, no worries. I've got a question for you. If there was mass election fraud to rig the winner, you you think thats something worth fighting for? I'm kinda torn on that one.

Great question and its hard for me to say to be honest. I'm on the side where to say there's no fraud whatsoever would be impossible, but I truly believe that if there was it wasn't to the extent where it cost him the election. I'm also confused as to why only democrats or those votes against him are the only votes that could possibly be fraudulent. And why only press the issue in the states that he felt they should have won? If the proof is as substantial as he claims why aren't they winning more law suits, and why isn't he making the same accusations in states he won.

The problem I have with it the claiming that the election is fraudulent and his continuing to claim he won by a landslide is that by the same logic its saying that those who went against him (like myself) don't really have a vote and that only votes that should count are his.

But I think its becoming more and more a firecracker because of the way he's handled himself. He's constantly stirring the pot and I honestly don't know if he truly believes the election was as rigged or he simply refuses to accept the fact he lost and is trying to manipulate those that support him into to drag things out even further.

I guess I don't have a problem so much with people standing up for what they believe in, as much as I have a problem with who's barking the loudest and who's leading the masses. I think a lot of what is said, not all, is unfounded, false, or absolute lies and that is used to fuel the masses and drives the anger and hatred. My issue is the fact that he's totally crossed the line and is acting more like a tyrant than a leader at this point. The leader of a "free" country doesn't try to interrupt what should be a peaceful transfer of power. The leader of a "free" country doesn't pressure his vice president to do something that he lawfully doesn't have the authority to do. A leader doesn't instruct his followers to march with him and then disappear off to the white house while they storm the capital. A true leader doesn't jeopardize or take the lives of those he took an oath to defend and as the face of nation doesn't lead an assault on the landmark that is symbolic for democracy.

All this by the same guy that took issue with athletes kneeling because of what the flag stands for.

 

[Luftgekuehlt67]

He's raised well into 9-figures since election day. He may be near $300M since election day at this point.

I realize many people who buy into the "successful businessman" persona may think "meh, that's chump change for DJT", but it's not. That is a great deal of cash, whereas the overwhelming majority of Trump's wealth is in the form of real estate holdings.

The primary, perhaps even only, fundraising angle worked by Team Trump over the last couple months has been the "stop the steal" angle. Theyve sent up to 30 emails a day (!!!) appealing to supporters to give and it's proven to have been extremely effective.

The money can't be used for his own elections, but Trumpism, in the immediate future at least, will be an 800 lb gorilla in Republican politics. I would look for runs by kids and in-laws (US Senate bids - Lara in NC, Ivanka in FL), but also keep in mind his repeated threats to "primary" incumbents. With $300M backing him up, those aren't empty threats.

 

[PCHawk]

Great question and its hard for me to say to be honest. I'm on the side where to say there's no fraud whatsoever would be impossible, but I truly believe that if there was it wasn't to the extent where it cost him the election. I'm also confused as to why only democrats or those votes against him are the only votes that could possibly be fraudulent. And why only press the issue in the states that he felt they should have won? If the proof is as substantial as he claims why aren't they winning more law suits, and why isn't he making the same accusations in states he won.

The problem I have with it the claiming that the election is fraudulent and his continuing to claim he won by a landslide is that by the same logic its saying that those who went against him (like myself) don't really have a vote and that only votes that should count are his.

But I think its becoming more and more a firecracker because of the way he's handled himself. He's constantly stirring the pot and I honestly don't know if he truly believes the election was as rigged or he simply refuses to accept the fact he lost and is trying to manipulate those that support him into to drag things out even further.

I guess I don't have a problem so much with people standing up for what they believe in, as much as I have a problem with who's barking the loudest and who's leading the masses. I think a lot of what is said, not all, is unfounded, false, or absolute lies and that is used to fuel the masses and drives the anger and hatred. My issue is the fact that he's totally crossed the line and is acting more like a tyrant than a leader at this point. The leader of a "free" country doesn't try to interrupt what should be a peaceful transfer of power. The leader of a "free" country doesn't pressure his vice president to do something that he lawfully doesn't have the authority to do. A leader doesn't instruct his followers to march with him and then disappear off to the white house while they storm the capital. A true leader doesn't jeopardize or take the lives of those he took an oath to defend and as the face of nation doesn't lead an assault on the landmark that is symbolic for democracy.

All this by the same guy that took issue with athletes kneeling because of what the flag stands for.

The one thing about fraud this year is its supposedly coming from mail in voting which is primarily democratic votes. Thats the logic on that one. That said, there was a pretty big irregularity in Dade County Florida too. Sounds like there was some vote dumping going on there. Really the only thing that would make me say that I doubt it was enough to cost Biden Florida would be me being blinded by the fact that Trump one. My mind doesn't work like that. There is no way for me to have any idea how many votes got dumped there.

That said, of course Trump is only going to dispute places he lost. Just like a coach is only going to dispute calls that go against him. I've got no issue with that. What I do think tho is if they are going to look into the places he's disputing, they need to look into Dade County too. And I also have a huge issue with him saying he won in a landslide. He sounds like an idiot saying that.

As far as him stirring the post, that's been a 2 way street for 4 years. Liberals have gotten really good at twisting every single thing into race. The things Trump says compared to the things the media says he says is a huge difference. Unless you actually listen to what Trump says (with a mind that doesn't look for race in everything) you wouldn't ever know what he actually said. It's really bad and frankly backed Trump into a corner where he had no choice but to take it or look like a teenage girl on Twitter.

The last thing goes back to my question earlier about whether or not you think someone should fight if there truly was voter fraud. If there was, and Trump truly knows there was, then im not sure I can blame him for anything he's done to insight that riot. If he doesn't truly believe there was fraud, I agree everything he has done is terrible. Really the biggest difference between what you think of Trumps actions and what I think is our opinions on the possibility of there actually being fraud.

 

[PCHawk]

One last thing. Has anyone seen the videos of the same guys at capital hill being at the BML protests. It's very possible there is a group of people doing this and both sides are getting played bad. If it is a group of people doing it all, the question becomes who's doing it. Is it just some random activists or is it a political party. If its a political party, you have to ask who benefits from it and that will tell you which side is responsible. Trump has been blamed for the BLM riots and the Capital Hill riot, so I'm guessing it wasn't him. If we are truly being played that is. I don't necessarily believe we are.

 

[kicker22]

One last thing. Has anyone seen the videos of the same guys at capital hill being at the BML protests. It's very possible there is a group of people doing this and both sides are getting played bad. If it is a group of people doing it all, the question becomes who's doing it. Is it just some random activists or is it a political party. If its a political party, you have to ask who benefits from it and that will tell you which side is responsible. Trump has been blamed for the BLM riots and the Capital Hill riot, so I'm guessing it wasn't him. If we are truly being played that is. I don't necessarily believe we are.

I've heard humors but haven't seen the video about the same guy, but there's so many others who have been ID'd inside Capitol Hill that are Trump supporters or affiliated with QAnon and Good Ol' Boys its hard telling. On the bright side, if there is one, it should become pretty clear in the next few days who a lot of the individuals are that are involved, since everyone has this weird idea that when you do something illegal it's a good idea to post what you did on social media.