Trump most certainly is, but has a much bigger following and impact on the world. 70 plus million followers fora dude who spews more lies than truths is quite an accomplishment.
Poll: Who's Going To Win Tuesday?
- Thread starter Fryowa
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judzeehawk
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking half of those voters aren't followers. Just people that held their nose and voted for him for tax purposes. I'm hoping.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Judzee, I'm going to decimate your hopes and dreams here. Biden won't raise taxes for anyone making less than 400,000 a year. The threshold for being included in the top 1% of wage earners is $338,500. That's a really small group of that 71 million that are voting for Captain Bonespurs solely because of taxes...unless they are idiots.
America, I thought I knew ye. Turns out I didn't. Here's another fact that's kind of alarming...70% of the economic output in this country is controlled by 477 counties in America...all counties that voted for Biden. 29% of the US economy is controlled by 2497 counties that voted for Trump.
To me, that just underscores the division in this country...and the widening gap in priorities of each group...and why they don't listen to each other. Trumps geography is considerably less diverse and rural, and the economic numbers underlie the growing sense of resentment due to the lack of opportunity. Trump just taps into this for his benefit...and pushes the grievance politics to an extreme...something these counties have no issue getting on board with. What the hell has Trump done other than to give them a rallying cry. Subsidizing farmers (socialism), failed trade policy which has cost us financially and killed job creation, no infrastructure bill to create jobs, no educational reforms to level the playing field, an absolutely moronic response to the pandemic...yet this group still follows him because he's a good used car salesman. Eventually you take the car home and realize it's a piece of shit. I'm curious when that happens.
I just don't get the cult of personality attraction. Trump is successful at building a brand and monetizing that brand...but all his businesses fail...and his track record of failure is horrendous. I just don't get it.
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judzeehawk
Well-Known Member
I sure don't get it.
Trump built his following by being pro America. A lot of people still like that, crazy as it may sound. When you have to choose between a candidate who talks about how great American is, and one who talks about how shitty it, its a pretty easy choice for some. When you have to choose between a side that will burn down the country if they don't get their way and a side that won't, its an easy choice for some. When you're smart enough to know all politicians are corrupt, and you pay attention enough to see through the blatant lies by the media for 4 years (Charlottesville for example) its pretty easy to see through the bs and realize there is no moral difference between Donald Trump and Joe Biden. If the media would have only focused on the good Trump did over the last 4 years, and completely ignored the bad, people would see him completely different right now even tho he would be the exact same guy. If they would have spent the last year only talking about Biden's bad and ignoring his good, people would think he was the biggest racist ever.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
LOL. Oh, you mean the good Trump that is accepting his defeat like a man...not forcing all his minions to stroke his ego with all the baseless bullshit going on. No, he's going to burn it down. Charlotteville, what was a lie about that? The guys carrying torches and spouting anti semitic chants, the white supremacist marches. Yeah...the media made that up other than those pesky video tapes.
You need to stop listening to Fox. The Democrats don't hate America. That's moronic. I don't think Republicans hate America either.
The media didn't create the Ukraine scandal...Trump did. He deserved to be impeached...and he should have been removed from office. He shook down a foreign country, withheld aid, so he could get them to launch an investigation into Biden. That's corruption and banana republic stuff. Anyone who can read can figure out what he was doing...and all the supporting witnesses confirmed it.
So, has the media made up that he hasn't released his tax returns too. Or that he won't disclose who he owes money to. Or that he botched the virus response so badly that he cost thousands their lives. Hospitalizations are a peak right now...healthcare workers are freaking out...is that a media creation. Watch, Trump is going to pardon his family and himself...why? Because he's corrupt and he tried to put people around himself to protect him...like the Justice Dept. Barr is supposed to be independent. Do you think the Justice Dept is independent. Barr was willing to go to court in a civil suit on behalf of Trump. What the hell is that? He's not Trumps lawyer. It's so messed up.
Trump supporters have fallen prey to one of the oldest cons in the book. Everyone's corrupt so it's ok that I get away with it too.
I didn't say good Trump. In fact, I specifically said he was corrupt just like every other politician. What I did say is the media could paint a picture of him being good if they wanted to. Just like they paint a picture that Biden is good.
Charlottesville was a straight lie how they covered it. Trump said there were good people on both sides. The media pretends that the 2 sides were people who wanted to tear down statues on one side, and the kkk on the other. That is the lie. And its a straight malicious one designed to make Trump look bad. The truth is that the two sides were people who wanted to tear down statues and people who wanted them to not be torn down. There were good people who wanted the statues removed due to their racist pasts, and there were good people on the other side who wanted them preserved because of their place in American history. The bad people were the people who started fights on both sides, including the kkk which Trump specifically condemned in that interview.
I never listen to Fox, or news in general. Democrats are constantly talking about how bad America is so it sure sounds like they hate it. Trump very possibly did do that stuff with Ukraine. Whats funny tho is he was being corrupt, digging up corruption on Biden. Like I said, equally corrupt.
I give two shots about his tax returns. Be mad at the ridiculous tax laws, not the smart person taking advantage of them. I don't care who he owes money to. He was a business man his whole life. Of course he owes money to people. I would care tho if he based political decisions on who he owes money to. If that ever happened and was proved, I'd be pissed.
An American elected official will never ever be able to control a virus in a country full of 330 million Americans. I get how a liberal would think that conservatives base their decisions on what a president says, but that's not how most conservatives roll. We are self sufficient people who want government to leave us alone as much as possible. We don't base how we act on what Trump says to do or not do. I couldn't care less what some guy 1000 miles away says about how I need to act during this pandemic. I make my choices based on what I see in my life. In fact, people who thinks masks would save the world should be thanking their lucky starts that Trump doesn't tell people to wear them. Because if he did, very few conservatives would listen (because again, we don't care what he says) AND 90% of liberals wouldn't wear them either because there is no way they would do what Trump said. So actually, Trump not talking up masks actually gets more people to wear them.
I'm not sure what Trump is going to pardon his family for because I'm not even aware they've been convicted of a crime.
Luftgekuehlt67
Well-Known Member
Hey PC,
I don't think it's been widely covered in the conservative media, so that is one possible reason you haven't heard of it, but Trump (and family) are facing some very serious legal issues after he is out of office and I think the notion of a pardon (or pardons) is very much on the table:
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/office-president-trump-face-legal-vulnerabilities/story?id=74116717
I think there is a non zero probability Trump pardons himself and possibly also some family members before leaving office in an attempt to extend his immunity ad infinitum. In particular, this is purely my own speculation, but I wonder about Don Jr and Eric. They have been DJT's two leading cheerleaders on the whole election fraud thing, almost to what seems to be a pathological degree. I have to wonder if they are implicated in ways that Ivanka and Jared are not since, if reports are to be believed, Ivanka and Jared are leaning more towards "concede".
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Hey! Look who's back.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Listen...I'm not listening to a politician about whether I should wear a mask. That's the first problem...let's call us all Americans. ALL Americans should listen to the scientists...and READ about what was successful in other countries. Australia / New Zealand / South Korea / China. Wearing of masks is critical for slowing the spread. Trump politicized it...then touted Fauci saying masks weren't necessary yet, EARLY in the pandemic. He said that because he was concerned about the massive shortages of masks for healthcare workers. When supply caught up...he knew he could make that recommendation. Trump lies about the reasoning and Trump wouldn't wear a mask...that again sent a message.
I completely disagree with you that we couldn't control this virus in the US. We needed leadership. We needed to send clear and repetitive message early in the pandemic...clearly saying this was dangerous and not enough is known...and yes...mandate masks in public areas. It's not a restriction of freedom...it's necessary to save lives and get our lives back. Trump was stupid...and here we are...much, much worse in the US.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
If Trump and his cronies keep holding these election rallies, people are going to die...or violence is going to break out. I'm all for peaceful protest...but the other party accepting the election and willfully assisting in the transfer of power is critical. The messaging out of the Trump campaign is critical. What Trump is doing is unprecedented...and incredibly dangerous. Trump and his administration's actions right now...if it continues...will get people killed. You are riling up a certain segment of his base that will eventually resort to violence. The kidnapping plot of the governor of Michigan is just the tip of the iceberg if Trump continues this denial and defiance.
What Trump is doing right now is the most unAmerican, dangerous thing, in our democracy. Why do you think these other Presidents were so gracious in their defeats, and clear that they supported the results and would do everything in the power to make the transition successful. Because elections are intense, beliefs are intense, losing a Presidential election, for some, feels like life or death. In our current political environment, it's even more dangerous.
Trump is a wannabe despot...and it's showing right now. He'd rather burn it down that lose. History will be so unkind to him as it should.
What Trump is doing right now is the most unAmerican, dangerous thing, in our democracy. Why do you think these other Presidents were so gracious in their defeats, and clear that they supported the results and would do everything in the power to make the transition successful. Because elections are intense, beliefs are intense, losing a Presidential election, for some, feels like life or death. In our current political environment, it's even more dangerous.
Trump is a wannabe despot...and it's showing right now. He'd rather burn it down that lose. History will be so unkind to him as it should.
Have you listened to that interview with Fauci saying not to wear masks? He laughed in a mocking way at the idea of the general public wearing them. Then went on to give some very good reasons on how they can do harm. To me, its pretty obvious that wearing a mask helps stop what you breathe in and out. But that's only one way to spread it. The other way is by getting the virus on your hands and touching your face. To me, it is equally obvious that masks make that aspect or catching the virus worse. So it helps in one way and hurts in another. How much total good does it do? That's debatable. The good news is some states have had mandates in place long enough to get a pretty good idea. I'd say that data shows they probably help a little but not much.
The point I made earlier tho is Trumps message about masks is virtually irrelevant to the people. Like you agreed with. Most won't listen and most don't care. So how is his message hurting the country then? People always said he would lead like a tyrant. But when he gets the chance to control the entire population, he instead let's the individual states decide what to do. Thats very un-tyrant like of him.
And do you really think Trump is the only side that "doesn't care about the virus? Where is all the talk about getting healthy and boosting your immune system with vitamins? There is plenty of talk about wearing masks. But where is all the reminders about the safe way to wear them? It was important enough in the beginning to make Fauci laugh at the idea of the general public wearing them, but now there is never a mention of it. You really think liberals wanted to control the virus, or do you think they wanted it really bad so they could use it come election time?
This is a virus that prays on fat unhealthy people. Guess what America is full of. But people want to blame a president for the deaths even tho they know full well that very few people care what he says anyway. No one ever even mentions how big of a roll international travel from China to the US played in getting the virus here before anyone cared. It was too late for the US when Pelosi was walking through China town without a mask and Fauci was laughing at the idea of wearing them. If you want to compare the US numbers to South Korea, you better be fair and point out how much less travel to China they have, how much more healthy their people are, and how much more control the government has on them, which is very bad in every aspect other than virus containment.
You would have to go aaaalllllll they way back to 2016 to find the last time the loser of an election didn't go away peacefully. "Trump is not our president". Making up fake election tampering schemes. Impeachment.
The good news is, all of that bs was finally brought to light, just like the election results will be. And knowing that there wasn't election fraud is something 100% of both sides should want.
Luftgekuehlt67
Well-Known Member
Maybe the loser didn't go away "peacefully" but, to be fair, Hillary did concede at 2:30 AM the following morning.
I think you also have to be careful about painting "fake election tampering schemes" with a broad brush, because there is complete consensus Russia in particular successfully intervened in our 2016 elections in favor of Trump. Was it enough to be a decisive factor? Impossible to know. The heart of the impeachment proceedings was establishing what level of involvement, if any, the Trump administration had in the tampering. The results showed a lot of contact between Trump associates and the Russians but, per our lawfully elected representatives, not enough of a smoking gun existed to warrant removing Trump from office.
In terms of integrity, I would take 2020 over 2016 ten times out of 10 - and that has nothing to do with who won. We owe our intelligence community a huge debt of gratitude for their efforts in ensuring 2020 was not a repeat of 2016. Trump's efforts in the days since Nov 3rd are somewhat of a slap in the face to those people, IMO.
I
Was probably coming back come basketball season anyway, but the changes around here made it an obvious choice. I'll be doing my best to stay away from anything resembling race talk because people are so crazy extreme, but other than that, there's really no reason to stay away anymore.
She "conceded", but when you concede, you normally except the results, which she never did. Instead she spent then next few years plotting to get him out of office.
And the only people who know the extent of cheating this year are the people who did the cheating (if they did). Thats why it needs investigated. If there's nothing there, it will be pretty easy to prove. Likewise if there is something. If there is a legit investigation, the answers will be black and white.
judzeehawk
Well-Known Member
Just because you concede doesn't mean you have to like it. Good grief.
Might want to check some news now and again, Trump will be facing several charges when he is booted out of the WH, including the defamation case from the woman who was sexually harassed/raped by Trump. All Trump would have to do to win/kill the case is provide his DNA but he refuses to, which looks a bit guilty imo. Then there is tax evasion, which will likely be a slam dunk. And there will be more. No president in the history of the US has had so many of his election team indicted/arrested, a criminal enterprise on it's own. His short term actions that did boost our economy pre pandemic were completely unsustainable for our economy/environment and the price paid with our bloated budget deficit even before pandemic was entirely unacceptable. 4 years and zero infrastructure improvement, 4 years and no prescription drug price changes, 4 years and no replacement healthcare plan. I can go on but will stop. For me personally I won't vote for an incompetent serial liar, 5 time draft dodger and robber of charity funds, tax evader, amongst other vices. Can't do it, the job requires a better resume than being simply being a well known reality show lowlife.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
It already is.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Trump was impeached because he tried to shake down Ukraine...military aid for an investigation into Biden. The funniest thing were the people wearing those stupid "read the transcript" shirts. LOL. Did they read the transcript? If you read that, and don't think Trump was shaking down the Ukraine prime minister...well...you are beyond help and likely retarded.
Clinton conceded the election...voiced support for Trump and Obama immediately invited him to the White House. The Russia investigation was warranted...confirmed to be so by a bipartisan senate committee and our intelligence agencies. Nevermind that the Mueller report confirmed the Russians the Trump people were engaged with. Why would Paul Manafort admit under oath that he shared polling data with Russian intelligence? I'm not sure why he would do that? Any ideas? At the end of the day, there was collusion with the Russians...what they couldn't prove was CONSPIRACY...because conspiring with the Russians is against the law...colluding is not, and not a legal threshold.
Clinton conceded the election...voiced support for Trump and Obama immediately invited him to the White House. The Russia investigation was warranted...confirmed to be so by a bipartisan senate committee and our intelligence agencies. Nevermind that the Mueller report confirmed the Russians the Trump people were engaged with. Why would Paul Manafort admit under oath that he shared polling data with Russian intelligence? I'm not sure why he would do that? Any ideas? At the end of the day, there was collusion with the Russians...what they couldn't prove was CONSPIRACY...because conspiring with the Russians is against the law...colluding is not, and not a legal threshold.
