Passed him By

[OLWPAORWWM]

So then lets hear it? Where are your facts you have yet to say anything. In your reality is Iowa football doing well right now?

The argument isn't that Iowa football is doing well, since it obviously isn't. The argument is that Kirk Ferentz was never any good, and any positive things in the program are in spite of him, not because of him. This is exactly what you said, and it is a ridiculous statement that you cannot support with evidence.

 

[Eda]

Can you tell me the first year Norm started missing games due to health? That is also the year that Stanzi looked scared to throw the ball.

I don't know about the "scared to throw" look. Stanzi studied a lot of film throughout the offseason, and wanted to make less mistakes to better help the team position itself to win. Are you seriously arguing against him doing this?

 

[imported_ankle23]

I don't know about the "scared to throw" look. Stanzi studied a lot of film throughout the offseason, and wanted to make less mistakes to better help the team position itself to win. Are you seriously arguing against him doing this?

what iowa QB leads Iowa all-time in passing efficiency? yet another Ferentz player leading an offensive stat. Hard to swallow for mr. negative.

 

[LASBUR]

Thats not to far off Freed. What part do you disagree with. Is it that you think we should be a OSU or a ALB. or USC. Do you not think Iowa is a tough place to win at ? You are pretty reasonable. Not sure where you disagree. Unless its about expectations. Just who would you like to have that would be better that would come to Iowa. Dont say Stoops because No one knows if he would come or not. I would take him too.

The response to this from the majority of HN is as follows.............

1. It's true Iowa is not doing well at present and the last three years have not been good.

2. This is to be expected at Iowa because we can't recruit good players all the time like Texas, Alabama and tOhio State. You are foolish to believe that there will not be drop off years at Iowa.

3. Kf has done quite a good job in that he's only had one losing season since he turned it around. Heck, look at all the big name coaches. They have had losing seasons too.

4. You can't blame kf for last season. Heck, he had the two same coordinators for 13 years. All the sudden he had two new ones. Good grief, readjust your expectations. Name me one d-1a coach who has to start over with two new coordinators and has a good season that year? You can't. KF is a good coach!!

5. For the sake of all logic, look what the guy has done at Iowa. Many bowl game wins, including a BCS bowl game plus tons of players that are now in the NFL And he did all this at Iowa. Remember it's almost impossible to win at a school like Iowa.

6. The 3 year good, 3 year bad cycle is just always how it will be at Iowa. KF is due to have a good year very soon. If not this year, then next.

7. So you all kf haters want him gone? Who you gonna find that's better than kf to come to Iowa? Nobody.

8. I am proud that kf has stayed at Iowa as long as he has, and I hope he stays till he's 80.

FreedComanche

 

[kmurp]

So in answer to my question: No one really thinks that the game has passed him by. People are upset with recent results and some feel he was never a very good coach. But there isn't a bunch of "can't miss new stuff" in CFB that he's either unaware of, doesn't understand or refuses to adopt.

 

[hwk23]

That offense really wasn't anything special. The defense, which featured 7 starters who have seen playing time in the NFL, was the backbone of that team. The offense was no juggernaut.

The 2009 offense wasn't bad either. I'm counting 6 starters that are currently in the NFL. Bryan Bulaga, Julian Vandervelde, Ricky Stanzi, Marvin McNutt, Tony Moeoki, and Allen Reisner. Also Riley Reiff and Adam Gettis were backups and are currently in the NFL. Add to that DJK who is one of the best wr's in Iowa history and that's a pretty good offense. If Shonn Greene comes back it might have been one of the best offenses in Iowa history, if not the best.

 

[uihawk82]

The game has NOT passed him by. The only thing I think KF is really lacking in is his in game management and not having the will to bury the opponent. KF wants that stout defense that may bend a bit but is high in scoring against rankings (I only wish KF would let the dogs loose a little more on 3rd and long which was sometimes Norm's worst down). KF wants a good running game anchored behind a great/above avg offensive line. And then KF wants an efficient, controlled pro-style passing game.

This is still the best formula for good winning percentages year in and year out with the weather and controlling the games. The pro-style, I formation fullback lead running game, some nice crossing patterns and out routes to get first downs (I wish they would use more quick slants ala Tate to Solomon against LSU), and a tough defense that causes turnovers and good field position. Look at most super bowl winning teams - the steelers, the cowboys, all the giants teams all fit this formula, as did green bay and the two denver teams with terrell davis and elway. Lately almost all the SEC champs like bama, Lsu and Florida fit this pattern.

I think KF is happy winning the majority of games played and by a margin of around 9-12 points. He is not going to put all best athletes on offense in order to score 40+ points a game but also give up 40+ points a game. It has long been known that if Iowa's offense scores 7-9 points above their normal average they win.

Let's hope that this years offense can be higher scoring which in this philosophy should translate to wins.

 

[FreedComanche]

Thats not to far off Freed. What part do you disagree with. Is it that you think we should be a OSU or a ALB. or USC. Do you not think Iowa is a tough place to win at ? You are pretty reasonable. Not sure where you disagree. Unless its about expectations. Just who would you like to have that would be better that would come to Iowa. Dont say Stoops because No one knows if he would come or not. I would take him too.

I got the pro kf guys completely figured out. That compilation I put together is what they always lean on when any criticism comes their hero's way. And, hey, overall kf does have a decent overall record at Iowa. I think it's an avg season of 7-5. Not bad.

I also got the anti kf guys, like myself, figured out. We don't buy the whole premise of the pro kf crowd. That premise is this: Iowa is not tOSU and that means we'll never get the good players year in and year out. Because of this, just expect a little above mediocrity like 7-5.

With an attitude like that, K-State and Oregon would still stink. They didn't buy the premise that most Iowa fans currently do.

FreedComanche

 

[hwk23]

I got the pro kf guys completely figured out. That compilation I put together is what they always lean on when any criticism comes their hero's way. And, hey, overall kf does have a decent overall record at Iowa. I think it's an avg season of 7-5. Not bad.

I also got the anti kf guys, like myself, figured out. We don't buy the whole premise of the pro kf crowd. That premise is this: Iowa is not tOSU and that means we'll never get the good players year in and year out. Because of this, just expect a little above mediocrity like 7-5.

With an attitude like that, K-State and Oregon would still stink. They didn't buy the premise that most Iowa fans currently do.

FreedComanche

I agree with you here. I think Sam Walton said "Low expectations are the enemy" or something like that. Nebraska had no more natural advantages than we do (or even less) and they were able to build their program to the best in the country at one point.

It really takes a special coach to be able to do that though and getting that coach would be a crapshoot. I'm still of the view KF isn't that far away from being that coach, but he needs to improve. If we could combine HF (passing game and gameday coaching) and KF (player development) we might have that coach.

Maybe somehting as simple as delegating the offense to our OC who has coached in two NC games the last 8 years might be enough to get us there.

 

[NCHawker]

not passed him by but he's culpable for allowing the roster to be so lean in talent. There was time to get some Jucos or something to backfill for the attrition. The problem with W/L at Iowa is primarily talent levels.

 

[SamsonHawk515]

Two words

"Tim Tebow"

That is all

 

[DP5555]

This was at least as comical: posters would blame every woe of the Iowa program on KOK (and still do)! Say DP5555, why don't you ask Philbin's opinion on how KOK's doin' in Miami?
Why don't you give an example of any coach that had bad things to say about another coach (that didn't go to jail) ?

I'll give you some credit here because you are right. It's rare in the coaching community for coaches to say anything negative about their colleagues. I'll give you that. However the very fact Kirk was able to bring in and keep some great coaches on his staff for a long period of time says a lot about the desire other coaches have to work with/for him. Now someone like Bill Parcells knows way more about football than virtually 99% of the planet. He's not a guy known for mincing words or being polite just to be polite. He goes out of his way to mention Ferentz's coaching ability.

Look, the only thing that is frustrating is when people are trying to suggest Ferentz isn't, and hasn't ever been a good head coach. That's just plain ludicrous. Refusing to give him any credit for the success he's brought to Iowa is delusional. That just takes away any credibility that you might have had.

Kirk Ferentz deserves criticism right now for a lot of things. He's made mistakes. The program isn't in a good place and he's got a lot of pressure on him right now. I don't think anyone is arguing that. Hawk fans want to see results, and see them soon. However, some things that are said on here just don't add up. I think that's why you see so many people come to his defense. Not because he doesn't deserve criticism, but because that criticism should at least be comprised of rational thoughts.

 

[AZHAWKFAN1]

Lasbur, I assume you mean Bob Stoops, not Mike who didn't get the job done in Tucson. I think Mark will be a great head coach. I will be watching his progress at Kentucky. I would like him to follow Kirk at Iowa at some point, maybe 3/5 years from now.

 

[ShadasRevenge]

It is true KF has a bad record on clock managment. Not sure how you can debate that. As far as other game day decsions. I think he is pretty consistant. You may not like his conservative approach but that is who he is. I happen to think that approach helps keep us in games when we are fighting a uphill battle on talent.If you look back we dont get blown out very often. As other posters have said its losing the games we should win that is frustrating and something he needs to change.

How many coaches are great at clock management? Even in the NFL there are coaches who don't know when to call timeout or not. Further, how much of this "bad clock management" talk stems from the last possession of the 2010 Wisconsin game?

You want to talk about bad clock management, I'll refer you to Bret Bielema burning two timeouts in the first 5 minutes of the Rose Bowl against Oregon.

 

[tm3308]

The 2009 offense wasn't bad either. I'm counting 6 starters that are currently in the NFL. Bryan Bulaga, Julian Vandervelde, Ricky Stanzi, Marvin McNutt, Tony Moeoki, and Allen Reisner. Also Riley Reiff and Adam Gettis were backups and are currently in the NFL. Add to that DJK who is one of the best wr's in Iowa history and that's a pretty good offense. If Shonn Greene comes back it might have been one of the best offenses in Iowa history, if not the best.

And how many of those guys have played a single snap in an NFL regular season game? That criteria scratches off Stanzi, McNutt and Reisner for sure, and I believe Vandervelde and Gettis.

The defense had 7 starters who have actually played in an NFL game, at least 3 of whom are NFL starters (Klug, Clayborn, Spievey; Angerer has been a starter in the past).

And for the record, the offense ranked 89th in total offense, 86th in scoring, 99th in rushing, 83rd in passing efficiency. The list goes on. It wasn't terrible, but it was a FAR cry from being good. Much closer to bad than good.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

No the game hasnt passed kirk by. Norm retired. KOK got sick of being the whipping boy. Game day coaching and clock skills are the same. Maybe if Kirk can pull in a Banks or a Greene type players then Kirks offense will work.

See Jon's post.

And an alternative answer: those who say that about "the game" don't know too much about said game.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Whose running out of arguments? Every game Kirk gives new very logical arguments.Though they are still the same old mistakes I mean arguments Kirk just keeps making them. Same arguments different staff. Same arguments different players. Same mistakes same kirk.

<<Whose running out of arguments?>>

Indeed. I submit you haven't posited even one valid argument. The problem is you can't find the first one. The good news is, there's always tomorrow!

 

[FreedComanche]

And how many of those guys have played a single snap in an NFL regular season game? That criteria scratches off Stanzi, McNutt and Reisner for sure, and I believe Vandervelde and Gettis.

The defense had 7 starters who have actually played in an NFL game, at least 3 of whom are NFL starters (Klug, Clayborn, Spievey; Angerer has been a starter in the past).

And for the record, the offense ranked 89th in total offense, 86th in scoring, 99th in rushing, 83rd in passing efficiency. The list goes on. It wasn't terrible, but it was a FAR cry from being good. Much closer to bad than good.

The above numbers describe a kf coached Iowa offense. The offense almost never puts up good numbers, and I would guess that they usually rank in the bottom half of the offenses in the nation.

FreedComanche

 

[hawkeyebob62]

except that is what hok fans said about norm (game passed by) and of course Keefe took took the O out of Iowa's offense.....i agree about what you say about keefe though - he was the whipping boy. iowa fan is sad.

KOK was the whipping boy. And many times he was, in reality, damn near genius.

I still think the single best play he ever called was the 3rd-and-short screen to Reisner to clinch the 2010 Insight Bowl. It was good enough to darn near convince me that he told Reisner to get tackled before he scored to run the clock.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I understand that many people have been the whipping boy for Iowa. You can not find a time when I said anything bad about Norm or KOK. If people dont agree with me fine, but I have not switched who I blame. Im also not one of the many who goes crazy on game days on this site to turn back around a couple of days later when they calm down from their cryfest.

I dont think anything has passed by kirk. I dont think he has ever been a good gameday coach. Every year he makes head scratching mistakes heck every game he makes those the mistakes.

<<I don't think he was ever a good gameday coach>>

Yeah. 100 wins in 14 seasons. Tons of terrible gameday coaching. And he keeps getting the same lucky breaks.

Dude, you'd almost do better going Commie and just arguing salary. Seriously.