Passed him By

[woodyk1]

And how many of those guys have played a single snap in an NFL regular season game? That criteria scratches off Stanzi, McNutt and Reisner for sure, and I believe Vandervelde and Gettis.

The defense had 7 starters who have actually played in an NFL game, at least 3 of whom are NFL starters (Klug, Clayborn, Spievey; Angerer has been a starter in the past).

And for the record, the offense ranked 89th in total offense, 86th in scoring, 99th in rushing, 83rd in passing efficiency. The list goes on. It wasn't terrible, but it was a FAR cry from being good. Much closer to bad than good.

Well, Reisner has played snaps in the NFL. He even has a catch or 2.

Allen Reisner NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

And, so has McNutt. Maybe not a lot, and only on special teams, but he has played too.

Marvin McNutt NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Ooth and I have the view that kf's talents do not suit him to be a head football coach at all. He's a good o line coach. That's what he's gifted at. The reason for the success he's had is because of the good coaches he had hired at one time. Once they left, the recruiting went down hill and this is what you are seeing now. A team that has bottom half big ten talent.

This past year you saw kf panic in firing some bad position coaches (which was needed a few years ago) and hire some, hopefully, good ones.

Yes, I realize this is the minority view. I have a friend that totally hates what's going on now with Iowa football, but he's loyal to kf till death. We have some good arguments.

FreedComanche

<<The reason for the success he's had is because he hired at one time>>

Brilliance. Let me expound:

--Wilt Chamberlain was a terrible "go-to" guy. His scoring success is because of being a 7' tall ball-hog

--Jon Miller is actually a terrible writer. He only has readers because of good punctuation.

--Jon also runs a terrible website, but due to incredible "Search Engine Optimization" he gets hits on the site.

Frankly, I'm having a tough time drawing analogies. Know why? Because your logic is so flawed it...actually DEFIES logic.

Seriously? We're now at making "excuses" for Kirk's "success"? Yet he's a terrible gameday coach?

At least you have a belief--backhanded, perhaps--in "miracles".

 

[tm3308]

How many coaches are great at clock management? Even in the NFL there are coaches who don't know when to call timeout or not. Further, how much of this "bad clock management" talk stems from the last possession of the 2010 Wisconsin game?

You want to talk about bad clock management, I'll refer you to Bret Bielema burning two timeouts in the first 5 minutes of the Rose Bowl against Oregon.

It goes WELL beyond knowing when to call timeouts, although that's also been a consistent issue over the year. I lost count of how many times Tate would stand, fuming, outside the huddle waiting for the play to FINALLY get in. That one's a much bigger deal than timeout usage, IMO. Then, of course, there's the Capitol One Bowl fiasco that turned into a miracle (in other words, lucky).

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Can you tell me the first year Norm started missing games due to health? That is also the year that Stanzi looked scared to throw the ball.

Wrong. Stanzi threw the ball in 2007. He wasn't looking confident then, either.

Sport, you're now choking. Freed, you and HomerChampless need to make sure your Heimlich is in good working order.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I agree with you here. I think Sam Walton said "Low expectations are the enemy" or something like that. Nebraska had no more natural advantages than we do (or even less) and they were able to build their program to the best in the country at one point.

It really takes a special coach to be able to do that though and getting that coach would be a crapshoot. I'm still of the view KF isn't that far away from being that coach, but he needs to improve. If we could combine HF (passing game and gameday coaching) and KF (player development) we might have that coach.

Maybe somehting as simple as delegating the offense to our OC who has coached in two NC games the last 8 years might be enough to get us there.

<<Sigh>>

Nebraska has faced skepticism and criticism in the past, both with regard to recruiting and allowing "thugs" to play despite serious off-field issues. Comparing Iowa and Nebraska straight-up simply won't wash.

 

[tm3308]

Well, Reisner has played snaps in the NFL. He even has a catch or 2.

Allen Reisner NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

And, so has McNutt. Maybe not a lot, and only on special teams, but he has played too.

Marvin McNutt NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Regardless, the general point stands. Not a single offensive skill player has made any remotely significant impact for their team in the NFL, and only Bulaga and Reiff have done anything on the offensive line. The defensive players have done quite a bit.

That offense was average, at best. Anybody arguing otherwise is utilizing serious revisionist history.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

It goes WELL beyond knowing when to call timeouts, although that's also been a consistent issue over the year. I lost count of how many times Tate would stand, fuming, outside the huddle waiting for the play to FINALLY get in. That one's a much bigger deal than timeout usage, IMO. Then, of course, there's the Capitol One Bowl fiasco that turned into a miracle (in other words, lucky).

You need to watch--and I'm surprised you haven't--the BTN replay of the Cap One Bowl.
It seems NONE of the players knew the clock was winding. And frankly, I didn't know, either. I had forgotten the whole "penalty-restart" thing even after Tate had spiked the ball AND the penalty was called.

Can you explain the other 99 strokes of luck KF has had. I am woefully uninformed on those.

 

[tm3308]

<<Sigh>>

Nebraska has faced skepticism and criticism in the past, both with regard to recruiting and allowing "thugs" to play despite serious off-field issues. Comparing Iowa and Nebraska straight-up simply won't wash.

I feel like this should be put on a ******* loop in a video ad or something. There's a reason Nebraska dropped off after the rules tightened up. Now they're back to be good, but they are a long ways from the dynasty they once were. And they are unlikely to ever reach that level again.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Regardless, the general point stands. Not a single offensive skill player has made any remotely significant impact for their team in the NFL, and only Bulaga and Reiff have done anything on the offensive line. The defensive players have done quite a bit.

That offense was average, at best. Anybody arguing otherwise is utilizing serious revisionist history.

<<Regardless, the general point stands>>

No, it doesn't. YOU made the original point. He successfully refuted it.

Certainly the 2009 offense wasn't a juggernaut. But it was good enough to help win 11 games.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I feel like this should be put on a ******* loop in a video ad or something. There's a reason Nebraska dropped off after the rules tightened up. Now they're back to be good, but they are a long ways from the dynasty they once were. And they are unlikely to ever reach that level again.

I don't think they ever reached "bad", but the biggest difference between may just be in the difference between "expectations" of both fans AND administration.

Firing Solich after going 9-3? It's as bad as Lloyd Carr getting "run" at Michigan, or SEC coaches (lesser schools, of course) who get bagged after just a season or two.

 

[tm3308]

You need to watch--and I'm surprised you haven't--the BTN replay of the Cap One Bowl.
It seems NONE of the players knew the clock was winding. And frankly, I didn't know, either. I had forgotten the whole "penalty-restart" thing even after Tate had spiked the ball AND the penalty was called.

Can you explain the other 99 strokes of luck KF has had. I am woefully uninformed on those.

I've seen that replay dozens of time. I specifically remember Marques Simmons being shown on the sideline as the clock started to roll.

I can't go back to specifically list every "stroke of luck". But I was at the Northwestern game this past season, when we took THREE delay of game penalties, including one during a 2-minute drill situation.

Our clock management really has been bad, and that complaint has been around since LONG before the 2010 Wisconsin game, as Shada suggested as a source for that sentiment.

 

[tm3308]

<<Regardless, the general point stands>>

No, it doesn't. YOU made the original point. He successfully refuted it.

Certainly the 2009 offense wasn't a juggernaut. But it was good enough to help win 11 games.

The sentiment that my point was supposed to communicate was that the offense easily paled in comparison to the defense, and I used the NFL successes of the players we both listed to illustrate that. Throwing out a guy who has played 4 games on special teams, and another who has 2 career receptions doesn't exactly tip the scales back to even.

I never once said it was bad. I said it was nothing special/not a juggernaut/average at best (in three different posts). He threw out a list of players, of whom only two have had any significant impact in the NFL, who were on that offense. I pointed out that the defensive players have had far more success.

The 1981 offense was "good enough" to go to the Rose Bowl. That doesn't mean it was anything more than mediocre. A lights-out defense and Reggie Roby had everything to do with that team's success. 2009 was a similar case, which was my point. We had some big plays, but we weren't a good offense that year. Very inconsistent.

 

[tm3308]

I don't think they ever reached "bad", but the biggest difference between may just be in the difference between "expectations" of both fans AND administration.

Firing Solich after going 9-3? It's as bad as Lloyd Carr getting "run" at Michigan, or SEC coaches (lesser schools, of course) who get bagged after just a season or two.

They were pretty average under Callahan. He had a 27-22 record in 4 years at Nebraska (15-17 in the Big 12). That's not just "not good" by Nebraska standards. That's not good at most programs, and it's appallingly bad by the standard for Nebraska fans.

 

[OUTofTOWNHAWK]

So bob do you think Kirk is a good game day coach?

 

[JonDMiller]

I got the pro kf guys completely figured out. That compilation I put together is what they always lean on when any criticism comes their hero's way. And, hey, overall kf does have a decent overall record at Iowa. I think it's an avg season of 7-5. Not bad.

I also got the anti kf guys, like myself, figured out. We don't buy the whole premise of the pro kf crowd. That premise is this: Iowa is not tOSU and that means we'll never get the good players year in and year out. Because of this, just expect a little above mediocrity like 7-5.

With an attitude like that, K-State and Oregon would still stink. They didn't buy the premise that most Iowa fans currently do.

FreedComanche

Did Kirk crush some dream of yours at some point? The amount of posts (ie time) you have made ripping on Kirk in the same old way, my goodness...We get it. You aren't saving anyone from themselves, so if you are on some sort of crusade, move on down the road.

 

[hwk23]

<<Sigh>>

Nebraska has faced skepticism and criticism in the past, both with regard to recruiting and allowing "thugs" to play despite serious off-field issues. Comparing Iowa and Nebraska straight-up simply won't wash.

Yes, there was some of that, and I hate Nebraska but I attrbute most of their success over about 40 years to coaching. Specifically, on offense, Nebraska ran the ball a very high percentage of plays. TO's schemes on offense worked with the type of talent common in the midwest. He played an athlete at QB, many of whom could have played WR or RB. Weakness at WR didn't kill the team. Much like Wisconsin now, who runs the ball 65-70% of the plays, Nebraska ran the ball behind a big OL, except Nebraska did it much more creatively.

That works in the midwest. If you look at Wisconsin's stats on offense they are close to the top in scoring in the Big Ten every year for about 10 years. We are usually bottom half in scoring and rushing 50% of the plays. They're doing it with similar talent to us. It's no secret how they're doing it. They're running the ball 70% of the plays behind an oversized OL. I think we could do that especially given the strengths of our coach.

 

[tm3308]

Yes, there was some of that, and I hate Nebraska but I attrbute most of their success over about 40 years to coaching. Specifically, on offense, Nebraska ran the ball a very high percentage of plays. TO's schemes on offense worked with the type of talent common in the midwest. He played an athlete at QB, many of whom could have played WR or RB. Weakness at WR didn't kill the team. Much like Wisconsin now, who runs the ball 65-70% of the plays, Nebraska ran the ball behind a big OL, except Nebraska did it much more creatively.

That works in the midwest. If you look at Wisconsin's stats on offense they are close to the top in scoring in the Big Ten every year for about 10 years. We are usually bottom half in scoring and rushing 50% of the plays. They're doing it with similar talent to us. It's no secret how they're doing it. They're running the ball 70% of the plays behind an oversized OL. I think we could do that especially given the strengths of our coach.

The difference is that when Nebraska did it under Osborne, it didn't just work in the midwest. It worked everywhere. Wisconsin, you'll notice, hasn't won dick outside of the midwest. That's not just coaching; it's a product of the talent gap between the two eras.

 

[kmurp]

What is the theory on why Iowa has trouble getting in plays. I can see some of it on Fernetz in a sittuation where he has to decide whether to punt or "go for it" and takes too much time to do so. Other than that, doesn't the offensive coordinator decide on the play and is responsible for getting it called in a timely fashion?

 

[PCHawk]

You need to watch--and I'm surprised you haven't--the BTN replay of the Cap One Bowl. It seems NONE of the players knew the clock was winding. And frankly, I didn't know, either. I had forgotten the whole "penalty-restart" thing even after Tate had spiked the ball AND the penalty was called.Can you explain the other 99 strokes of luck KF has had. I am woefully uninformed on those.

In the capital one bowl we lost our chance of running a successful 2 minute drill after the 1st play when we completed a 9 yard pass on 1st and 10 and didn't call one of our 2 timeouts. So much time went off the clock before we attempted to run another play that we had no chance to use both time out. In fact we never even used one. The 02 Purdue game was another "stroke of luck" game. We ran the ball on 1st and goal with a minute and a half or so left and called an immediate time out. 90 seconds is way to much time left when you only have 3 plays left so whats the hurry? We scored on 4th and they proceeded to march down the field and get into field goal range for the win before a ball went through their receivers hands and into a defenders to seal the win. His terrible clock management should have cost us our big 10 title that year.

 

[OUTofTOWNHAWK]

What is the theory on why Iowa has trouble getting in plays. I can see some of it on Fernetz in a sittuation where he has to decide whether to punt or "go for it" and takes too much time to do so. Other than that, doesn't the offensive coordinator decide on the play and is responsible for getting it called in a timely fashion?

So Iowa just happened to have two OCs in a row with the same problems?