Original thoughts from Clown Town

[hawkdrummer1]

The cardinal was chosen because depicting a tornado as a mascot was conceptually somewhere between difficult and impossible, and Iowa State's school colors naturally lent themselves to the cardinal.

I might also mention:

Weather patterns as mascots are difficult.

Again...do your homework. The Ibis as a mascot for the Miami Hurricanes is quite appropo. Folklore identifies the ibis as a leader of other birds, often the last sign of wildlife seen before the arrival of a hurricane and the first to emerge when the storm has passed.

The Cardinal, on the other hand, is native to half of North America. It has virtually no unique connection to Ames or Central Iowa or to cyclones. The word random... comes to mind.

As for "making it about us"...You're on Hawkeye Nation. It is about us. WhyTF are you here? Desperate to make it about you?... or just want to hang around with winners for a change? (that's a rhetorical question, the answer is self-evident)

 

[lightning1]

Actually he only got fired because of the meltdown at KSU. He'd likely be the coach the next year if it weren't for that.

He didn't get fired that year because Jamie hates firing his guys. You'll recall he gave the ol' vote of confidence to McDermott and basically refused to fire him regardless of his terrible performance and a terrible outlook.

....maybe Jamie should get the ax?

 

[ISUffer]

so how did you prove that most Iowa state fans care about anything but beating iowa?

I never claimed to be trying to do that and the thread wasn't about it in the first place.

you better hope you don't get blown out on your super bowl again this year. It definitely means more to you than it does me.

Ok.

 

[ISUffer]

Again...do your homework. The Ibis as a mascot for the Miami Hurricanes is quote appropo. Folklore identifies the ibis as a leader of other birds, often the last sign of wildlife seen before the arrival of a hurricane and the first to emerge when the storm has passed.

Fair point. I was simply drawing the connection between another school with a very similar weather event nickname that also settled on a bird mascot.

The Cardinal, on the other hand, is native to half of North America. It has virtually no unique connection to Ames or Central Iowa or to cyclones. The word random... comes to mind.

Okay? The TigerHawk isn't a real bird. Random?

As for "making it about us"...You're on Hawkeye Nation. It is about us. WhyTF are you here?

I saw a post that was making some wildly inaccurate claims as the basis for a smear and spoke up.

Desperate to make it about you?... or just want to hang around with winners for a change? (that's a rhetorical question, the answer is self-evident)

It's the week of the game and I enjoy irritating you.

 

[BlindDogScooter]

Not sure if they just don't exist out of state or the shame runs so deep they can't bring themselves to broadcast their allegiance.

This...

 

[AdamHawk]

Didn't read my post at all huh.

The TigerHawk logo wasn't created until 1979. The association of birds and the UofI didn't start until Herky. The connotations of 'Hawkeye' were specifically tied to the Black Hawk tribe and Native Americans (and to a lesser extent, the character Hawk Eye from Last of the Mohicans) , not birds.

I understand you know how to use google, nice work. The origination of the nickname doesn't make a hawk any less of a bird.

 

[Ozhawk]

Naming a stadium after a former player or coach isn't exactly the most original thing for either school to do.

What is the significance of Jack Trice? I have always wondered that. Iowa Should have named something after their firest African American Player Kinny Holbrook...who played over two decades prior to Trice.

 

[Ozhawk]

The cardinal was chosen because depicting a tornado as a mascot was conceptually somewhere between difficult and impossible, and Iowa State's school colors naturally lent themselves to the cardinal.

I might also mention:

Weather patterns as mascots are difficult.

Now you are making yourself look ignorant. You need to realize that the Miami Mascot is an Ibis which was chosen because the Ibis is known for its courage in approaching Hurricanes. For coastal Florida folks, there is a deep connection between the Ibis and Hurricanes. There are even historical phrases regarding "being as brave as the Ibis when the hurricane approaches" You might want to mention something else without looking so stupid.

 

[Ozhawk]

The cardinal was chosen because depicting a tornado as a mascot was conceptually somewhere between difficult and impossible, and Iowa State's school colors naturally lent themselves to the cardinal.

I might also mention:

Weather patterns as mascots are difficult.

Ignorance must be easy for you. I suggest you google the connection between the Ibis (which is the Miami mascot) and a Hurricane. You ding dong. The phrase "brave as an Ibis in a storm" in coastal Florida is Akin to "I can't get enough of dirt roads and simple things" for Ames folks. Or "can I come on over and see your velvet Elvis" or some other nonsensical uncultured jabber and the like.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Fair point. I was simply drawing the connection between another school with a very similar weather event nickname that also settled on a bird mascot.



Okay? The TigerHawk isn't a real bird. Random?



I saw a post that was making some wildly inaccurate claims as the basis for a smear and spoke up.



It's the week of the game and I enjoy irritating you.

Go with what you got baby...when attempting to irritate others is the focus of your game... well, nuff said. I'm always amazed how clones that come here always end up defining themselves beyond anything we could describe....all the while having no clue they're doing it.

This is why we snicker...

 

[Bordone]

What is the significance of Jack Trice? I have always wondered that. Iowa Should have named something after their first African American Player Kinny Holbrook...who played over two decades prior to Trice.

He was the first black American to play a sport for ISU, he died from injuries sustained during his first game, he married a 15 year old. Those appear to be the significant achievements of his according to Wikipedia. Also why we are at it tornado's are the weather events that happen in the Midwest a cyclone typically refers to what we in the states call hurricanes only the ones that happen in southeast Asia. You would think with the time and effort they have put into re-branding their uniforms ever other year they could of come up with a nickname and mascot that made sense.

 

[BryceC]

Are you freaking kidding, really!? I disagree. Iowa State regularly doesn't have enough wins to qualify for a bowl game or a high-profile bowl (1-1 and after), so, it's not the Iowa game by itself that kills them. You can't say IA State would have been 5-7 instead of 4-8 if they just wouldn't have lost to Iowa. Nobody cares and still sides on the side of irrelevancy. They are just a crappy team in general. The Iowa games doesn't really have an effect on them or getting turned down by the Foster Farms bowl on Dec. 28th.

I guess if you are just trying to rack up shitty wins in general than you win the argument.

If Iowa has an outstanding year such as in 2002 or 2015, than an Iowa State non-conference loss can have an impact on their high profile bowl or if they would get into the playoffs or not. If they would have taken a loss in 2015, they wouldn't have even been in the discussion to be in the playoffs. Hell, they were on the fringes of a discussion anyway when beating Iowa State that year as the Iowa St game didn't help Iowa's SOS. The game doesn't do anything for Iowa's SOS or RPI or whatever they measure in football. So, just playing IA state most years (typically in the past) can hinder Iowa, win or lose. There is nothing to gain for Iowa unless Iowa State ends up having a solid year which I would say is 7+ wins.

The game would be more "worth it" to Iowa if ISU was better, I completely agree. I think it's harder for ISU to improve while playing a team like Iowa that is probably a 40% chance to win game at best.

Most years it wouldn't make a difference, but when you are starting at the bottom like ISU is, you need to rack up wins any way possible, and when you've won 8 games in 3 years there is no such thing as a crappy win. They are all important.

Also, it's no joke that Iowa is a very physical team. Any reduction in wear and tear on ISU players throughout the season would be good since there is little depth.

Everybody agrees that Bill Snyder is one of the best coaches in the history of college football. He built up KSU playing horrible teams. When he returned after the Ron Prince era, he scheduled not one but TWO FCS opponents his first year. There is a template to help build a program up in the Big 12, used by three different programs that have been historically awful. Schedule as bad as possible in the noncon. I'm willing to try it, because ISU has been trying the "play Iowa every year" method and it obviously hasn't worked.

He's right about what? I think we are talking about two separate things. He's talking about playing as many shitty teams as State can to qualify for a bowl game (6 wins). I'm talking about playing quality caliber teams to be beneficial as far as SOS at the end of the season.

I don't think we are on the same page.

SOS is utterly irrelevant to ISU.

 

[BryceC]

So, in a nutshell, it was really f'ing stupid and not really thought out too well when picking the cyclone as a mascot?

It's from a Chicago Tribune article in 1895. They described the game as such:

“Struck by a Cyclone…Northwestern might as well have tried to play football with an Iowa cyclone as with the Iowa team it met yesterday. At the end of fifty minute’s play the big husky farmers from Iowa’s Agricultural College had rolled up 36 points, while 15 yard line was the nearest Northwestern got to Iowa’s goal.”

Name basically stuck from there.

 

[BryceC]

What is the significance of Jack Trice? I have always wondered that. Iowa Should have named something after their firest African American Player Kinny Holbrook...who played over two decades prior to Trice.

The guy died on the field. Isn't it obvious?

 

[SteveGarvey1]

The argument made above is that ISU did it to copy Iowa, which ignores that ISU's facilities have been named after members of the program since the 30's. My point was that claiming ISU did it to copy Iowa is quite a stretch, at the very best. It's "much more likely" that neither program gives a damn what the other one names their stadium.



That's simply untrue. James Edwards, a newspaper reporter in the 1830's proposed 'Hawk Eyes" as a nickname for Iowans after the Black Hawk War in 1832. The university simply borrowed (some certain people might call this 'copied'?) the nickname from the state of Iowa. The term had nothing at all to do with Herky or birds as a mascot in general. That association came much later, after the creation of Herky.



Again, the claim above was simply that ISU 'copied' it's uniform from another program, ignoring the blatant hypocrisy that there is absolutely nothing at all original about Iowa's uniforms, save the logo.

Hey Cliff Clavin,

It's more likely that ISU named their stadium after a prominent figure because Iowa did so than the other way around.

I said the name "Hawkeyes" partly refers to a bird and this is true in the modern concept. We know the history from the 1830's but the meaning to sports fans also refers to a bird.

I'd rather copy a uniform from a higher league than one that already exists in the league my team plays for.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Hey Cliff Clavin,

I'd rather copy a uniform from a higher league than one that already exists in the league my team plays for.

Especially when it's done once, as part of a major (and highly successful) program overhall... remaining in place 40 years later as one of the most highly recognizable uniforms in college football.

Meanwhile ISU has changed their logo what... 4 or 5 times over the same period? Talk about an identity crisis.

Thing about the IOWA-ISU trash talk is, it eventually all comes down to the facts in the end. And we all know how that works out for the clones.

 

[BryceC]

So the moral of the story is copying a uniform is fine as long as Iowa does it. Great news!

 

[westender]

Again...do your homework. The Ibis as a mascot for the Miami Hurricanes is quite appropo. Folklore identifies the ibis as a leader of other birds, often the last sign of wildlife seen before the arrival of a hurricane and the first to emerge when the storm has passed.

The Cardinal, on the other hand, is native to half of North America. It has virtually no unique connection to Ames or Central Iowa or to cyclones. The word random... comes to mind.

As for "making it about us"...You're on Hawkeye Nation. It is about us. WhyTF are you here? Desperate to make it about you?... or just want to hang around with winners for a change? (that's a rhetorical question, the answer is self-evident)

I wouldn't use that argument for the bird thing as Hawks are native to much of the US also. The Hawkeye nickname for the state dates back to 1800s and if remember correctly was chosen so something less appealing would not be chosen by others (outsiders).

 

[Chickenlounge]

Jack Trice field was dedicated immediately after completion in 1975 so we couldn't exactly name it before then. The stadium was officially renamed in 1997 (rather than just the field itself), and is still the only FBS D1 stadium named for an African-American.

Iowa State used to play at Clyde Williams Stadium, named in 1938 for the former coach and athletic director who did play football for Iowa, but is now in both schools' hall of fame. Kinnick wasn't named until 1972 and prior to that Iowa played at "Iowa Stadium". Didn't exactly beat us to the punch there.



Herkey made his first on-field appearance as a costumed mascot in 1959. Cy was introduced at a 1954 homecoming pep rally.

Iowa, Hayden Fry specifically, had to seek permission from Pittsburgh in 1970 to copy their uniform.

Your reductive and misleading post was cool though.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I wouldn't use that argument for the bird thing as Hawks are native to much of the US also. The Hawkeye nickname for the state dates back to 1800s and if remember correctly was chosen so something less appealing would not be chosen by others (outsiders).

Iowa is the Hawkeye state...has been since the 1800s. It's not because of a bird. Do your homework. The University of Iowa's team nickname is closely tied to that history.

HERKY the Hawk (a natural extension of the original "Hawkeye" or "Hawk-eye"), the cartoon mascot was created later (good thing they didn't go with the Indian theme...the PC gang on East Bank would have taken care of that by now). Either way...I'll take a glorious bird of prey or brave warrior over a random, unpredictable wind spinning in a circle any day.