**OFFICIAL CUBS REGULAR SEASON THREAD**

Also on Dempster. He is scheduled to pitch, or could pitch on the 15th, that is Friday on normal rest. If he is traded it is likely now rather than in a few days so they can get an extra start out of him. I honestly would envision Dempster getting traded sooner than later since he is hot now, they could get more starts out of him, and for the cubs you could actually get more value since the other team gets more value out of Dempster in return. It will be interesting to see who they can get for him.I would also love to see the cubs resign him to a 2-3 year deal at the end of the season, for a significant pay cut of course.

If the cubs can trade Dempster, Garza, Soto, and Soriano, I would be pleased. Assuming of course they get good value in trade. I wouldn't want to part with Garza if there is not a good return.
 
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hawkfarmer said:
When your OBP is only 12 points higher than your BA that his BAD. I'm not saying Castro is bad, but I don't think he's as elite as everyone says he is, hence overrated in my book. If he could cut down on Ks, and increase walks, or just improve his approach I'd be fine with him. I do like Castro as I think his defense has improved greatly, though it's not great yet. I'd like to see his approach at the plate change, and it may with new coaching and age, but it needs to hurry up and get there.
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all due respect this argument is silly. nobody is claiming castro is elite. people have said hes got elite.tools and potential, which are both certainly true.

you are arguing that hes over rated because he doesnt belong on thos pedestal but nobody has put him there.
 
DuffMan said:
all due respect this argument is silly. nobody is claiming castro is elite. people have said hes got elite.tools and potential, which are both certainly true.

you are arguing that hes over rated because he doesnt belong on thos pedestal but nobody has put him there.
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Go back through this thread people have, and many cubs fans have. I think he's good, but I don't even think he's the best player on this team. He can hit, but he's not clutch, mostly due to plate discipline. The point is that people think he's better than he is, hence overrated. I think he can be that good, in a few years, but right now he is not.



Also saying all due respect, but your argument sucks, is like saying, No disrespect but your dumber than a box of rocks. I said no disrespect
 
no, im saying no disrespect to you personally but your argument sucks. i can criticize your argument without criticizing you.
 
DuffMan said:
no, im saying no disrespect to you personally but your argument sucks. i can criticize your argument without criticizing you.
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agree to disagree. I think Castro is overrated by what people expect out of him. People think he's a really good offensive SS. I don't think he is YET. Getting hits and having a .300 BA is great, but it's not what offense is all about. He has yet to solve the finer points, mostly because he's been learning at Chicago for 2 years instead of Iowa, but he still needs to work on those things. The talent is there yes, but people are rating him on his potential and not on what he is right now, and to me that is why he is overrated.
 
Castro is one of the top 5 shortstops in the game right now both offensively and defensively. He leads MLB in hits, 2nd in stolen bases, 2nd in RBI's, and has the 3rd highest batting average for his position. Plus he is still learning, is not fully developed, and is playing on a really bad team. I do not think we have him over rated, we all know he has elite potential but is not there yet. Again I think the media has him over rated because he is the best player on a really bad team in a huge market. If this team was in Tampa, Milwaukee, or Seattle most people would not even know his name.
 
ssckelley said:
Castro is one of the top 5 shortstops in the game right now both offensively and defensively. He leads MLB in hits, 2nd in stolen bases, 2nd in RBI's, and has the 3rd highest batting average for his position. Plus he is still learning, is not fully developed, and is playing on a really bad team. I do not think we have him over rated, we all know he has elite potential but is not there yet. Again I think the media has him over rated because he is the best player on a really bad team in a huge market. If this team was in Tampa, Milwaukee, or Seattle most people would not even know his name.
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Yes they have him overrated, that is what I'm saying. Also you throw out SB, RBI, and average. Those are great stats, but his OBP is not very good, he strikes out more than he should and his plate discipline is not very good. I'm surprised he ever gets pitches to even swing at. He is 7th in the NL and 19th in all of the majors in fielding with 10 errors, not including his hiccup on the DP, and a .967 fielding %. I agree he is young and will most likely improve in all those areas, but right now I don't think he is as good as the media and some cubs fans claim he is.
 
hawkfarmer said:
Yes they have him overrated, that is what I'm saying. Also you throw out SB, RBI, and average. Those are great stats, but his OBP is not very good, he strikes out more than he should and his plate discipline is not very good. I'm surprised he ever gets pitches to even swing at.
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All 3 of these things you mention are all one and the same. If he had better plate discipline he would get more walks and have a better OBP.

But you cannot dismiss batting average. Having a good OBP is necessary for hitting at the top of the order, but right now they got him batting 3rd most of the time which is where you want him driving in runs. A walk simply gets you to first base, and that is it. But if you want him driving in runs then you want him hitting the ball to drive those runners in or move them from first to third. But his plate discipline is definitely an area that needs improvement.

He is 7th in the NL and 19th in all of the majors in fielding with 10 errors, not including his hiccup on the DP, and a .967 fielding %. I agree he is young and will most likely improve in all those areas, but right now I don't think he is as good as the media and some cubs fans claim he is.
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He is 5th in MLB in innings played, 3rd in putouts, 3rd in assists, and 6th in double plays started. This shows he is durable and he gets to more balls that others do not, which improves his chances of making an error. I would rather have a shortstop that can create more chances to get batters out than those that have the best fielding percentage and rarely make an error. But still, an area he needs to work on.
 
ssckelley said:
All 3 of these things you mention are all one and the same. If he had better plate discipline he would get more walks and have a better OBP.

But you cannot dismiss batting average. Having a good OBP is necessary for hitting at the top of the order, but right now they got him batting 3rd most of the time which is where you want him driving in runs. A walk simply gets you to first base, and that is it. But if you want him driving in runs then you want him hitting the ball to drive those runners in or move them from first to third. But his plate discipline is definitely an area that needs improvement.



He is 5th in MLB in innings played, 3rd in putouts, 3rd in assists, and 6th in double plays started. This shows he is durable and he gets to more balls that others do not, which improves his chances of making an error. I would rather have a shortstop that can create more chances to get batters out than those that have the best fielding percentage and rarely make an error. But still, an area he needs to work on.
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When I talk about plate discipline I'm not just talking about striking out, I'm talking about situational hitting. Knowing the game situation, knowing your assignments etc. he doesn't always know when to swing, let one go by or push it to the opposite field. I'm sure he will learn. Also OBP could improve with his walks which will improve with plate discipline yes, but he also needs to just be more patient. Are they all the same thing, no, but they are correlated yes, just like all statistics.

As for defense, he has good range I like that, but the ones he makes mistakes on are more of the routine ones. I realize he does get more chances than most and if he were a top 5 defender he would make enough of those plays to have a top 5 fielding percent no matter how many chances he had. Fielding percent accounts for that as well, so yes I would like to see his fielding % go up before I consider him a top 5 SS.
 
I think Dempster will be worth a really good pitching prospect, hope he goes to a deep team like Detroit or Toronto, and a decent low level prospect would be my guess.
 
As the trade rumors begin, I thought we should look back at some recent deadline trades the cubs made:

Derek Lee to Braves for: left-hander Jeffrey Lorick and right-handers Robinson Lopez and Tyrelle Harris. Lopez, a 19-year-old Class A starter, is the most highly regarded, (Nothing from these yet)

Ted Lilly and Ryan Theriot to Dodgers for: infielder Blake DeWitt and minor league pitchers Brett Wallach and Kyle Smit. (Well that worked out so well!!!)

Kosuke Fukudome to Indians for: In exchange, the Cubs acquired outfielder Abner Abreu and pitcher Carlton Smith. Abreu, a right-handed hitter from the Dominican Republic, was batting .244 in 91 games with high Class A Kinston in the Carolina League. He had 12 homers, 16 doubles, five triples and 35 RBIs.
Smith, 25, a right-handed pitcher, was 2-3 with two saves and a 4.50 ERA in 34 games for Triple-A Columbus. He has 46 strikeouts in 46 innings, and teams are batting .259 against him. (Again nothing yet)


Surely Theo will do much better. I saw a rumor the braves were intersted in Dempster, but Theo was asking for the stars, which I like. We know there are plenty of players in it for Dempster, see what you can get.
 
hawkfarmer said:
As the trade rumors begin, I thought we should look back at some recent deadline trades the cubs made:

Derek Lee to Braves for: left-hander Jeffrey Lorick and right-handers Robinson Lopez and Tyrelle Harris. Lopez, a 19-year-old Class A starter, is the most highly regarded, (Nothing from these yet)

Ted Lilly and Ryan Theriot to Dodgers for: infielder Blake DeWitt and minor league pitchers Brett Wallach and Kyle Smit. (Well that worked out so well!!!)

Kosuke Fukudome to Indians for: In exchange, the Cubs acquired outfielder Abner Abreu and pitcher Carlton Smith. Abreu, a right-handed hitter from the Dominican Republic, was batting .244 in 91 games with high Class A Kinston in the Carolina League. He had 12 homers, 16 doubles, five triples and 35 RBIs.
Smith, 25, a right-handed pitcher, was 2-3 with two saves and a 4.50 ERA in 34 games for Triple-A Columbus. He has 46 strikeouts in 46 innings, and teams are batting .259 against him. (Again nothing yet)


Surely Theo will do much better. I saw a rumor the braves were intersted in Dempster, but Theo was asking for the stars, which I like. We know there are plenty of players in it for Dempster, see what you can get.
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That right there is the difference between dumping contracts and trading value. Among those traded, only Lilly had much value, and since it was the last year of his contract even his value was limited.

The thing that Theo has going for him is that outside of Soriano, he can afford to be picky about what he'll accept in return for his veterans since none of them have ridiculous contracts.
 
Clark said:
That right there is the difference between dumping contracts and trading value. Among those traded, only Lilly had much value, and since it was the last year of his contract even his value was limited.

The thing that Theo has going for him is that outside of Soriano, he can afford to be picky about what he'll accept in return for his veterans since none of them have ridiculous contracts.
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I agree with this. This is a good opportunity for the Cubs to start rebuilding the farm. As far as Soriano is concerned, the Cubs will probablly have to eat a lot of his contract, but if an AL team is in desperate need of a DH maybe they would be willing to pay a little more if the Cubs only ask for a bag of balls in return.
 
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