MJ is LeBron's *****.

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JonDMiller said:
Thank you. So you certainly have the benefit of memory for both players. One of the interesting thing in the Wilbon article was a reminder of how much we forget. I have watched some of Jordan's old games recently (parts of them) and was reminded at how amazing the guy was and how on a Tuesday night in January he would want to rip out your freaking heart, whether you were the Lakers of the Bucks.

LBJ does not have that...but that is OK, because I have never seen another player have that, either. I never bought into the Kobe > MJ thing...the Lebron > MJ debate has the chance to become much more real.

As far as MJ GOAT...it's not an open and shut case...those who saw all would tell you it was Wilt. I remember debating with my dad about this hardcore...and I never saw Wilt play..pretty stupid to be debating so hard when you have little context. Oscar Robertson was a beast...Bill Russell...so many old timers.

It's easier to go with an all time starting five...Jordan is on it..as is Wilt. The rest, have at it.
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As a school teacher, whenever a kid talks about anyone as the GOAT, I just have them to the Wikipedia page with Wilt's accomplishment. That always brings out the oohs and ahs.
 
JonDMiller said:
Boat, Jordan whined to officials too..he just did it with scowls and under the breath comments that were vicious.
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Oh, I don't argue that he knew how to work the refs, all the best do. I just had never in my 32 years of being a Jordan fan heard of a Jordan whiny face.
 
99topdawg said:
Actually, Lebron is 5/12 on game winning/tying shots in the playoffs (1 below .500). MJ is 9/18, or .500. It did happen to MJ. We're just led to believe that he was perfect. Here's just one example of his imperfection:

[video=youtube;hy5iWpQuxos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy5iWpQuxos[/video]
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You are completely missing the point. When he tries, yes he's good. I was saying he gave up. He did. He was a *****. Jordan never walked down the court, threw the ball to his teammates and stood there only to say after the game "I can't do this myself". That was Lebron.
 
99topdawg said:
Actually, Lebron is 5/12 on game winning/tying shots in the playoffs (1 below .500). MJ is 9/18, or .500. It did happen to MJ. We're just led to believe that he was perfect. Here's just one example of his imperfection:

[video=youtube;hy5iWpQuxos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy5iWpQuxos[/video]
Click to expand...


I dunno, I remember Jordan deferring to Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong and even Bobby Hansen for some big shots in key moments in NBA final games.
 
trj said:
I dunno, I remember Jordan deferring to Paxson, Kerr, Armstrong and even Bobby Hansen for some big shots in key moments in NBA final games.
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There is a difference between driving and dishing and setting up in the corner while your teamate runs the final play.
 
99topdawg said:
Actually, Lebron is 5/12 on game winning/tying shots in the playoffs (1 below .500). MJ is 9/18, or .500. It did happen to MJ. We're just led to believe that he was perfect. Here's just one example of his imperfection:

[video=youtube;hy5iWpQuxos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy5iWpQuxos[/video]
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you example is flawed ... you chose 1995, after he'd just spent a year and a half out of basketball ... nothing like cherry picking
 
bwsmoney said:
you example is flawed ... you chose 1995, after he'd just spent a year and a half out of basketball ... nothing like cherry picking
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Did Jordan push off or was it a good no call?

[video=youtube;vdPQ3QxDZ1s]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdPQ3QxDZ1s[/video]
 
theboat said:
There is a difference between driving and dishing and setting up in the corner while your teamate runs the final play.
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He seems to take plays off from time to time. I wonder if this is going to get better as he realizes he has to be "all-in" all the time to keep winning championships.
 
JonDMiller said:
Ask yourselves these questions and choose MJ or LBJ

1. I need one player for one season to win a title. I choose
2. I need one player for one night to win one game. I choose
3. I need one player for one career to build around. I choose

I am picking MJ in two of the three without much thought at all...#3 I'd need to give a little more thought to but probably not much, at this time.
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1. Kobe
2. Kobe
3. Kobe, but I could be talked into LeBron.

We are all products of our generations.
 
99topdawg said:
Actually, Lebron is 5/12 on game winning/tying shots in the playoffs (1 below .500). MJ is 9/18, or .500. It did happen to MJ. We're just led to believe that he was perfect. Here's just one example of his imperfection:

[video=youtube;hy5iWpQuxos]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy5iWpQuxos[/video]
Click to expand...

LOL, you used 1995, the year he came back from baseball. Here's some advice, stay away from the 1996 rematch with the Magic.
 
That particular scrimmage saw the world’s best players going head-to-head in a playoff-like atmosphere fueled by the competitiveness of Jordan and Magic Johnson. Jordan’s White Team, which included Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Scottie Pippen and Larry Bird, rallied past Johnson’s and Charles Barkley’s Blue Team 40-36. Which was good for everyone involved. “Let me tell you something — it would’ve been worse for everybody if he lost,” Johnson told McCallum. “Because I could let something go after a while. But Michael? He’d never let it go. He never let anything go.“
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That is something that Lebron just doesn't have.
 
thejumper5 said:
1. Kobe
2. Kobe
3. Kobe, but I could be talked into LeBron.

We are all products of our generations.
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Some of us are. And then some of us are on the right side of history ;)

Check out this read

OTL: Michael Jordan Has Not Left The Building - ESPN

an amazing looking into what made and makes Jordan tick, as he nears 50

Here is a part of it germane to these discussions

JORDAN PLAYS his new favorite trivia game, asking which current players could be nearly as successful in his era. "Our era," he says over and over again, calling modern players soft, coddled and ill-prepared for the highest level of the game. This is personal to him, since he'll be compared to this generation, and since he has to build a franchise with this generation's players.

"I'll give you a hint," he says. "I can only come up with four."

He lists them: LeBron, Kobe, Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki.

When someone on TV compares LeBron to Oscar Robertson, Jordan fumes. He rolls his eyes, stretches his neck, frustrated. "It's absolutely … " he says, catching himself. "The point is, no one is critiquing the personnel that he's playing against. Their knowledge of how to play the game … that's not a fair comparison. That's not right … Could LeBron be successful in our era? Yes. Would he be as successful? No."
 
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