Miller: The Big Ten's B1G Dilemma: What to Do With Penn State?

[Scorpio79]

And failure to teach right from wrong.

Holy smokes.

Sadly, not surprising. The theory and practice of personal responsibility disappeared from 'merrkan society about 15 years ago.

 

[David79]

maybe you should read it again, and pay extra-special close attention to pages 14-16.

If you read 14-16 you only get an opinion from Freeh. If you read the whole thing you get more details about all that went on. The thing I don't get from you is that it seems like you are exonerating everyone else inolved because Paterno was the man in charge. Everyone in involved is equally as guilty. I find it strange that you don't think that. There is no excuse for not turning over to authorities any information anyone had, and especially if that excuse is Paterno is the boss.

 

[ssckelley]

You are wrong here. A compliance department for NCAA rules is not an issue discussed in the report. They discuss compliance for the Clery Act which is not about NCAA rules. They didn't properly train and enforce the Clery Act. That is where they weren't in compliance.

Now, there are no rules that PSU broke. What the NCAA is going to try to do is say that what they did violates their consitution and principles in their bylaws because they can use the broad language that is written like ethical conduct and the like because specific rules weren't broken. It is stretch but it is a stretch they are going to try and make work because of the ground swell of people calling for action.

You are still arguing this crap, even with repeated evidence that NCAA rules could have been broken? I will tell you once again, the NCAA is already investigating this and action may be taken based on the response it gets to the letter that was sent to Penn State. You have lost this argument, give it up! You are starting to sound like Herby.

 

[treychase]

You are wrong here. A compliance department for NCAA rules is not an issue discussed in the report. They discuss compliance for the Clery Act which is not about NCAA rules. They didn't properly train and enforce the Clery Act. That is where they weren't in compliance.

Now, there are no rules that PSU broke. What the NCAA is going to try to do is say that what they did violates their consitution and principles in their bylaws because they can use the broad language that is written like ethical conduct and the like because specific rules weren't broken. It is stretch but it is a stretch they are going to try and make work because of the ground swell of people calling for action.

For the one billionth time...
Having a non functioning compliance dept IS a NCAA rules violation.

"A person with compliance responsibilities fails to establish a proper system for compliance or fails to monitor the operations of a compliance system appropriately likely demonstrates a LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL.

Directly from the ncaa.

They didn't know who was in charge, they had no system & no one monitored it.
LOL Its a poster child for a non functioning compliance system that is by its very definition a LOIC.

 

[ssckelley]

A NON FUNCTIONING COMPLIANCE DEPT IS A BROKEN RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PSU basically had Spongebob running around as its compliance director.

The rule PSU broke is...........a non functioning compliance dept.
Say it with me now....the rule PSU broke is.....a non functioning compliance dept.

This is freakin awesome!

Props trey, that was damn funny.

 

[Scorpio79]

If you read 14-16 you only get an opinion from Freeh. If you read the whole thing you get more details about all that went on. The thing I don't get from you is that it seems like you are exonerating everyone else inolved because Paterno was the man in charge. Everyone in involved is equally as guilty. I find it strange that you don't think that. There is no excuse for not turning over to authorities any information anyone had, and especially if that excuse is Paterno is the boss.

Nope, I'm not exonerating anyone. They should all answer for their crimes and be punished to the full extent of the law. I'm just trying to remind the paterno apologists that he played a significant role in the cover-up. He wasn't a kindly old man, just a harmless funny figurehead. He was a manipulative spider, and he ruled that place with a very selfish hand.

 

[treychase]

The Clery Act is going to be the DOE.
That's their pound of flesh to take.

 

[David79]

You are still arguing this crap, even with repeated evidence that NCAA rules could have been broken? I will tell you once again, the NCAA is already investigating this and action may be taken based on the response it gets to the letter that was sent to Penn State. You have lost this argument, give it up!

Actually I haven't and you just proved my point. There were no rules written to address this situation. They are stretching the meaning of the rules to punish them. If you want Ill go find you articles from sports law attorneys and form NCAA regulators including former head of infractions committee saying the exact same thing.

What they are trying to do (and you will learn this if you actually read the letter they sent) is use the some of the principles in the Constitution as rules when in fact they are really guidelines for writing the rules. They use the principles as the starting point saying that PSU may have violated principles of the constitution. Why use the consititution? Because it contains broadly written language that they can try to use to capture PSU's behaviour.

Also, because they are trying to use the principles as rules they then go to the ethics bylaws that discuss failure to turn in violations of NCAA rules ( but by rules they mean principles of the constitution).

Now, I know it is easier to shout and yell and tell people to be quite then to actually read something, but next time try the later first.

 

[ThunderHawk]

If it was all about the football program, then wouldn't they have wanted to keep Sandusky on the staff?

I've encountered a lot of stupid, ignorant, morally bankrupt people on these boards.

But you, like an airy turd, have risen to the top of the stupid bowl.

Does that "33" reflect your IQ?

 

[David79]

Nope, I'm not exonerating anyone. They should all answer for their crimes and be punished to the full extent of the law. I'm just trying to remind the paterno apologists that he played a significant role in the cover-up. He wasn't a kindly old man, just a harmless funny figurehead. He was a manipulative spider, and he ruled that place with a very selfish hand.

Ok, I thought you were implying that the others acts were excusable because Paterno was a mean old man.

 

[hawkfan33]

Actually I haven't and you just proved my point. There were no rules written to address this situation. They are stretching the meaning of the rules to punish them. If you want Ill go find you articles from sports law attorneys and form NCAA regulators including former head of infractions committee saying the exact same thing.

What they are trying to do (and you will learn this if you actually read the letter they sent) is use the some of the principles in the Constitution as rules when in fact they are really guidelines for writing the rules. They use the principles as the starting point saying that PSU may have violated principles of the constitution. Why use the consititution? Because it contains broadly written language that they can try to use to capture PSU's behaviour.

Also, because they are trying to use the principles as rules they then go to the ethics bylaws that discuss failure to turn in violations of NCAA rules ( but by rules they mean principles of the constitution).

Now, I know it is easier to shout and yell and tell people to be quite then to actually read something, but next time try the later first.

Agreed. It's hard to argue logic with people who are caught up in emotional groupthink though.

I'm surprised no one has made a case to shut down the entire university yet. This did go all the way up through the president of the university, wouldn't that be the only truly worthy punishment for this crime?

 

[ThunderHawk]

Actually I haven't and you just proved my point. There were no rules written to address this situation. They are stretching the meaning of the rules to punish them. If you want Ill go find you articles from sports law attorneys and form NCAA regulators including former head of infractions committee saying the exact same thing.

What they are trying to do (and you will learn this if you actually read the letter they sent) is use the some of the principles in the Constitution as rules when in fact they are really guidelines for writing the rules. They use the principles as the starting point saying that PSU may have violated principles of the constitution. Why use the consititution? Because it contains broadly written language that they can try to use to capture PSU's behaviour.

Also, because they are trying to use the principles as rules they then go to the ethics bylaws that discuss failure to turn in violations of NCAA rules ( but by rules they mean principles of the constitution).

Now, I know it is easier to shout and yell and tell people to be quite then to actually read something, but next time try the later first.

I think we all agree that the NCAA rules and bylaws contain no language specifically addressing the concealing and abetting of the systematic rape of children.

 

[hawkfan33]

I've encountered a lot of stupid, ignorant, morally bankrupt people on these boards.

But you, like an airy turd, have risen to the top of the stupid bowl.

Does that "33" reflect your IQ?

So you don't have a good answer to the question, that's what you're saying, right?

 

[ThunderHawk]

So you don't have a good answer to the question, that's what you're saying, right?

I'm saying that you're hanging yourself with your own rope of idiocy.

 

[hawkfan33]

I'm saying that you're hanging yourself with your own rope of idiocy.

Again, no answer. Got it.

 

[ThunderHawk]

Again, no answer. Got it.

People who argue the equivalent of "the sky is green" don't deserve the courtesy of a detailed answer.

You're engaging in the age-old hustle of claiming that refusal to engage in a ridiculous debate renders the refuser somehow evasive.

FAIL

 

[hawkfan33]

People who argue the equivalent of "the sky is green" don't deserve the courtesy of a detailed answer.

You're engaging in the age-old hustle of claiming that refusal to engage in a ridiculous debate renders the refuser somehow evasive.

FAIL

If this was all about football, why wouldn't you want one of the best defensive assistant coaches in the country to remain on your staff?

 

[David79]

NCAA should be the least of anyone's worries considering the serious nature of these crimes. To focus on NCAA punsihment in a way trivializes the gravity of the situation. What has happened is beyond football and the NCAA. These matters deserve justice in the courts, and it deserves looking into from federal and state education authorities and they will no doubt be held accountable for all they have done by the courts and government.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

If Penn State has the gall to send its football team to Iowa City this season, we should all, every one of us, turn our backs in dead silence when they take the field.

Not as disrespect towards the current players or coaches, but as a symbol of our collective disgust towards that university for still, STILL not getting it. Your football program and administration conspired to conceal child rape for 14 years, Penn State. You don't get to play football in 2012.

I take it you just watched your VHS copy of "BloodSport"?

 

[IowaFan81]

So are you saying that the others don't bear the same responsibility as paterno?

No, they are just as responsible. You made it sound like they should of reported it because they shouldn't be scared of JoePa and he wasn't powerful. I pointed out that they tried to oust him, but it didn't work. So yes he was powerful and people were scared of what he could do and control.