Mike Woodson goes off bigtime on Fran in his post-game presser...cussing and everything

[Fryowa]

So much of refereeing at this level is subjective. You gotta get the calls at home because you know you won't get them on the road.

Basketball is the absolute worst in this regard because it's 100% the referee's opinion whether something is an offensive or defensive foul. There are "rules" when it comes to fouls, but they're just subjective, interpretative descriptions. There's no direct black or white distinction. Football has it to a degree with PI and holding, but not nearly to the degree of basketball. Basketball is 100% subjective opinion by the ref. You can call a block or charge on every play and have a very solid argument either way. That's what makes coaches go nuclear most of the time.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I also think that because of the pace and close quarters, basketball refs are called on to make (or not make) far more calls than football refs. Both can be frustrating to watch at times, but hey, if everything were clean and predictable, I doubt we would all be so interested in the outcome. Human referees are flawed and that is part of the game. I don't think it is getting worse though. Maybe our televisions are clearer and slow motion replays show us more flaws, but the game is just a damn hard thing to ref and always has been.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Judging by our execution on the final possession after TWO timeouts, and the last possession at Penn State, maybe it wouldn't have been a bad idea for Fran to get lost

To give Fran his due however, that was gutsy to have Sandfort and Dix out there over Ulis and Perkins at the crucial juncture of the game. Auditions are open for picking up Pat's minutes and both players made huge plays down the stretch.

It looked like to me that Perkins hurt his arm at the very end and said he couldn't go. I think Fran wanted him on the floor. Otherwise Perkins only came out for like a couple minutes. The first 10 or 11 minutes of the second half is the longest I can ever recall Fran going without making a substitution. Those guys were gassed. Not sure why you'd think Sandfort over Ulis was gutsy. Things were really rough with Ulis in the first half, and I think after his wild drive and shot to end the half, Fran had seen enough for him on the night.

I'd stick with the 5 who started the second half and just ride them moving forward - see if they can all play 35-40 minutes. Maybe Sandfort is only 30. And then just sprinkle in a little Ulis, Dix and Bowen.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I will say this....Woodson could have been more professional about his disagreements with the Fran situation.

I think tactically wise, it was a very stupid move for Fran to risk getting another technical foul in the last minute of the game in a close game. He was lucky it did not cost his team the game.

I think he actually did get a T but they rescinded it, which is what pizzed Woodson off. It was a nutty game all around last night. Worth the $8 ticket price of admission though!!

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Agreed. Kinda ballsy, esp Sandfort.

It was nice to see Sandfort have a decent outing for his psyche and also Perkie was able to atone for his terrible start to the game. His missed shots and turnovers, sub par D to start really helped to get us in the hole. In the first half I began to cringe everytime he touched the ball. Nice recovery, so glad he could overcome it.

I was nervous when Sandfort went to the line late, even though he shoots like 86% FT, but he came through. I told a fan sitting next to me that if he makes these FT's, this may be the thing that gets him out of his slump going forward. Don't be surprised if he settles down now and is more consistent.

Good job Peyton!

 

[1980HAWKFAN]

I disagree with this. Fran is mostly acting. Did you see after he got the T and the ref told him to calm down and he said repeatedly "I'm fine." Guys like Fran get T ed up strategically. Yes, he wanted to get the Refs to start calling fouls the right way, but he was mostly trying to fire up his team that was lethargic at the beginning of that game. He was just as animated at timeouts. He was coaching.

Norman Dale asked to be tossed from a game ("you got pigeon shit in your eyes") so he could give Shooter the opportunity to bring home a big victory. Coaches sometimes engage a ref and ask for a T. Refs and coaches have an understanding that Ts are a part of coaching and it is usually not personal.

Bobby Knight was generally an angry person who literally lost control of his shit. He carried over his meanness to the press room, locker room and the practice floor it seems. Fran loses his shit, and 2 minutes later he can have a perfectly gentile conversation with the refs or a sideline reporter. And, Fran is a genuinely cogent and analytic person. His interactions with the press are always professional and well considered.

He looks ridiculous when he loses his shit, but most of it is playacting. Most.....

At this level, if Fran has to act like an out of control nut case to get his team going then something is wrong. We've seen multiple times when this team looks flat or lost. It's usually on the defensive side that gets this team in big holes combined with poor shooting. At some point as his outbursts increase they lose there effect. Call it a law of diminishing returns. I'm sure I'm not the only fan who is getting tired of this shit show.

 

[RobHowe]

I told the photographer sitting next to me last night before the opening tip to keep an eye on Fran during the game. That was not a good referee assignment for him. That trio likes to be part of the show and struggled in the first half to control both benches and deal with the intensity in the building. Lot of empty seats, but the people that were there were great and into it from the jump.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

I'm one of those guys that agree with Woodson. If the rules are going to designate coaching boxes and identify what happens when a coach leaves that box then it needs to be enforced. I'm not saying that I agree with the rule or think Fran should have been tossed or that Woodson isn't looking for excuses, but the fact is there are way too many rules in all sports. If it's not going to be enforced consistently then get rid of it. Way too many gray areas. Either act on it or get rid of it entirely, but don't create a situation such as this one where it simply becomes an excuse.

Good take.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Refs also have to show some discretion and realize the moment of the game. Fran had a legitimate beef that assistant coaches are not supposed to be woodshedding the refs. Refs interact with the head coach only. Fran wandering a few feet past the box to confront the situation was not the crime of the century. Emotions were high, no one did anything egregious, let the players decide the fate of the game on the court. I thought the refs did a good job there.

A few feet. Lol! He was down to the other coaches box line.

 

[Northside Hawk]

It looked like to me that Perkins hurt his arm at the very end and said he couldn't go. I think Fran wanted him on the floor. Otherwise Perkins only came out for like a couple minutes. The first 10 or 11 minutes of the second half is the longest I can ever recall Fran going without making a substitution. Those guys were gassed. Not sure why you'd think Sandfort over Ulis was gutsy. Things were really rough with Ulis in the first half, and I think after his wild drive and shot to end the half, Fran had seen enough for him on the night.

I'd stick with the 5 who started the second half and just ride them moving forward - see if they can all play 35-40 minutes. Maybe Sandfort is only 30. And then just sprinkle in a little Ulis, Dix and Bowen.

It would be like Lute's last year when we had a solid starting five...and little bench.

You're correct about Perkins. It happened when he was on the floor trying to corral a loose ball.

I will double down on Sandfort being a gutsy move because of his struggles with confidence. But bodies are running thin. Peyton stepped up with decent defense and two huge free throws.

Ulis is becoming Brian Garner 2.0. No confidence in his shot and out of control going to the bucket. He has nice chemistry with Rebraca though, dropped a couple beautiful no look dimes in the first half

Anyone know if Josh O is out? He not only hasn't been playing, he was way down next to Patrick at the end of the bench. Couldn't get a decent look at whether he was even in uniform.

 

[HawkGold]

I usually agree with your posts but Fran is definitely not a nutcase. Very manipulative, savvy coach who is working the refs. He uses Francon 1 for special occasions.

My God...watch Izzo, Underwood and Painter. They are chirping constantly. Izzo and Underwood are nut cases too...but it is all an act. Sometimes they WANT the technical. It's only one or two points. If they awarded 5 free throws or 10, you wouldn't see it at all.

No argument from me regarding Izzo. Izzo has also fallen off as I think the style doesn't work in this climate. It's old school when young people generally were conditioned to positively respond to fear.

I've coached about every level thru hs. When I get emotional it generally was net negative than positive. I've mentioned this before but in a hs baseball game. I knew the rules. In a tight game for the conference championship I tied to score a runner from first. The player tripped on 3rd and tried to get up and score. I grabbed him and put him back on 3rd. Opponent coach had been all over the umps all game. He screamed at the umps not calling me out. I had been behaving myself thinking it would be to my advantage. Ump with the other coach by his side directly asked him if I was guilty. I didn't want to lie or plead guilty so I turned my back to hide my big smile. Ump said....Play Ball!.

We loaded the bases and got a triple and won.

Another situation in girl's bb I had a young really good point guard. She turned the ball over 3 times in a row and I yelled at her. Then she got worse. She wouldn't look at me. I finally got really loud and she faced me and was crying...make up all smeared. Sat her down and apologized. Went back in and played really well.

I don't remember much of the times I was an idiot and was successfull. I do remember those incidents very well. I was a good coach. I'd rather be known as a compassionate coach than an idiot coach win or lose.

The most successful teams are self motivated. Inalso woukdnt be surprised that PMs anxiety might be better managed with better model8ng by his coach. Parenting is tough so not going there.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

At this level, if Fran has to act like an out of control nut case to get his team going then something is wrong. We've seen multiple times when this team looks flat or lost. It's usually on the defensive side that gets this team in big holes combined with poor shooting. At some point as his outbursts increase they lose there effect. Call it a law of diminishing returns. I'm sure I'm not the only fan who is getting tired of this shit show.

Man, you need to watch more ball. Fran is no worse, and probably better compared to Izzo, Coach K, Self. They all work the refs and explode on their players to motivate them. You can criticize if you want, but these are some of the most successful coaches in the game and they all do it.

Fran's face turns red when he is pissed. That is what makes us think he is crazy. Its funny. But, he doesn't work the refs any more aggressively than most coaches. He just looks goofier when he does it (except for Izzo in his elf sweater, that was an all timer).

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Basketball is the absolute worst in this regard because it's 100% the referee's opinion whether something is an offensive or defensive foul. There are "rules" when it comes to fouls, but they're just subjective, interpretative descriptions. There's no direct black or white distinction. Football has it to a degree with PI and holding, but not nearly to the degree of basketball. Basketball is 100% subjective opinion by the ref. You can call a block or charge on every play and have a very solid argument either way. That's what makes coaches go nuclear most of the time.

In addition, there are calls so many times that are anticipated and called by the refs. Refs should call the obvious calls seen, not by anticipation.

 

[HawkGold]

Man, you need to watch more ball. Fran is no worse, and probably better compared to Izzo, Coach K, Self. They all work the refs and explode on their players to motivate them. You can criticize if you want, but these are some of the most successful coaches in the game and they all do it.

Fran's face turns red when he is pissed. That is what makes us think he is crazy. Its funny. But, he doesn't work the refs any more aggressively than most coaches. He just looks goofier when he does it (except for Izzo in his elf sweater, that was an all timer).

Doesn't really matter what the others do. Self is a poor comparison. K got out. Frans face isn't the issue. It's the body language. He looks like he's about to fight..... Been in my fair share back when. I know what it looks like. It looks like Fran.

 

[Grady]

Part of the problem with college basketball controlling the coaches is that they allow the lines to be blurred for most of the game. There's a rule that coaches are never supposed to set foot on the court while the game is in progress. But every head coach in every game is constantly stepping onto the court -- both when their team is at the other end of the court and when directly in front of them. Last night the refs had to constantly move around the Indiana head coach when he was stepping onto the court during the game. That's BS. If they kept coaches under control during the normal part of the game, it would make giving coach's technical fouls a lot more defined and less subjective.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I'm one of those guys that agree with Woodson. If the rules are going to designate coaching boxes and identify what happens when a coach leaves that box then it needs to be enforced. I'm not saying that I agree with the rule or think Fran should have been tossed or that Woodson isn't looking for excuses, but the fact is there are way too many rules in all sports. If it's not going to be enforced consistently then get rid of it. Way too many gray areas. Either act on it or get rid of it entirely, but don't create a situation such as this one where it simply becomes an excuse.

Should be like in court room.....need to ask permission to approach the witness. Need to ask permission to come out on the court....or xyz spot......or else T.

 

[HawkGold]

Kinda funny. Big win in face of chaos. We talk more about IU and ad blockers.

Fran did it again. OKness in the face of disaster.

 

[1980HAWKFAN]

Man, you need to watch more ball. Fran is no worse, and probably better compared to Izzo, Coach K, Self. They all work the refs and explode on their players to motivate them. You can criticize if you want, but these are some of the most successful coaches in the game and they all do it.

Fran's face turns red when he is pissed. That is what makes us think he is crazy. Its funny. But, he doesn't work the refs any more aggressively than most coaches. He just looks goofier when he does it (except for Izzo in his elf sweater, that was an all timer).

I've watched plenty of ball, those coaches you mentioned other than Fran, I've never seen them have to be physically restrained from going after someone. I get the motivation part of it, but I think it has reached a point with Fran that is problematic. I'd rather see Fran have the team ready to play, because clearly to me that's not a good look for your program.

 

[cohawkeye]

Well dont forget John Chaney( threatening to kill Calipari. or John Thompson (3 Tees In one Game lol) or Bob Knight ..........To be honest, last nights win was all about Fran making the right decisions from the Tee to the zone.
The players showed some fire, and I am not getting tired of Fran standing up for his players or to the Horsecrap B10 officiating. (I like class as in KF, but you can still show class with fire in your belly, and thats the debate on Fran ..IMO)The key in refereeing is calling the obvious to keep the flow of the game open, when that disappears you can lose control of the game in the closed environment and that happened somewhat last night ....Mike is likely pissed he couldn't figure out the zone or stop bricking free throws.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I've watched plenty of ball, those coaches you mentioned other than Fran, I've never seen them have to be physically restrained from going after someone. I get the motivation part of it, but I think it has reached a point with Fran that is problematic. I'd rather see Fran have the team ready to play, because clearly to me that's not a good look for your program.

You are joking right? This took me 30 seconds....