Michael Jordan

[ssckelley]

1) Grant vs Bosh entirely depends on how good you think Bosh is.

2) Pippen's versatility on defense combined with Jordan made those Bulls teams what they were. The Bulls were still pretty damn good without Jordan.

1. I cannot debate this, but statistically Bosh is way better than Grant and is considered one of the best post players in the league.
2. The Heat were still pretty damn good without Lebron. They were a playoff team just like the Bulls were without Lebron and Bosh.

The only All-Star team he made was while Jordan was retired.

Yeah, he did pick up a lot of the scoring after Jordan left. Again, he was a good point guard but not great.

 

[imported_ankle23]

The only All-Star team he made was while Jordan was retired.

same with horace grant - i.e. had his best season post-jordan. not sure if that included all star team.

 

[whammer33024]

miller/battier=paxson

bosh>grant

wade<>pippen (wade on offense, pippen's defense)

lebron<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<jordan. period.

everyone in the world knew jordan was the best player in the world when he was in the league. i'd say people could argue who the best player in the league is right now.

you had a last second shot to make, who would you choose? lebron or kevin durant? answer: kevin durant

 

[theboat]

The debate about supporting cast makes me laugh. Beyond Pippen (who would never have been Pippen without Jordan) there is nobody that played on those Bulls teams that would be remembered the way they are today if they hadn't been a champion.

Looking at the Cavs roster over Lebron's career you can see guys like Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Z, even Donyell Marshall, that were statistically comparable to the supporting cast that Jordan had.

In the case of Pippen, Antawn Jamison had much better statistics. The Bulls were a better all around team, I don't argue that, but the idea that they won or the Cavs lost only because of supporting cast or lack thereof is just stupid.

especially now, if the Heat lose, there are already people saying "he can't do it by himself."
Sorry, Pippen was good, but he was NEVER relied upon for 30 a night.

 

[Travisam]

The debate about supporting cast makes me laugh. Beyond Pippen (who would never have been Pippen without Jordan) there is nobody that played on those Bulls teams that would be remembered the way they are today if they hadn't been a champion.

Looking at the Cavs roster over Lebron's career you can see guys like Mo Williams, Larry Hughes, Z, even Donyell Marshall, that were statistically comparable to the supporting cast that Jordan had.

In the case of Pippen, Antawn Jamison had much better statistics. The Bulls were a better all around team, I don't argue that, but the idea that they won or the Cavs lost only because of supporting cast or lack thereof is just stupid.

especially now, if the Heat lose, there are already people saying "he can't do it by himself."
Sorry, Pippen was good, but he was NEVER relied upon for 30 a night.

Please never post again related to the NBA.

Thanks

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Yeah, but this still makes me laugh. I didn't even see the movie.

It's the Only Argument I Need, Shawn! - YouTube

Dang it I got in on this threat late this is exactly what I was going to put on here well played Mauer.

 

[David79]

Actually he said their big 3 COULD win that many, IF they took care of business. They doesn't say that they "were going to win" any of them.

Ok, so it was a conditional guarantee. Didnt they also say it was the greatest trio in NBA history.

 

[David79]

Please never post again related to the NBA.

Thanks

You forgot to call him out for hinting that Antawn Jamison was better than Pippen.

 

[theboat]

Please never post again related to the NBA.

Thanks

While playing with Lebron
Pts. Reb. Ast.
Mo- 15.63 3.03 5.5
Hughes- 14.23 3.97 3.23
Jamison- 18.63 7.57 1.8
Z- 13.44 7.75


Pippen averaged 19 Pts during the bulls championship seasons. DWade has averaged about 23.5 the last two years and Bosh is averageing about 18.5.

What will be the Lebron excuse after this year?

 

[theboat]

You forgot to call him out for hinting that Antawn Jamison was better than Pippen.

Who said that? I said statistically. If you guys don't read it is hard to have a discussion.

Jamison is a career 20 and 8 guy.

Pippen was a career 16-6-5 guy.

Jamison was a better scorer than Jordan ever played with, and he isn't as good as the other two guys on Lebron's team today.

 

[Travisam]

While playing with Lebron
Pts. Reb. Ast.
Mo- 15.63 3.03 5.5
Hughes- 14.23 3.97 3.23
Jamison- 18.63 7.57 1.8
Z- 13.44 7.75


Pippen averaged 19 Pts during the bulls championship seasons. DWade has averaged about 23.5 the last two years and Bosh is averageing about 18.5.

What will be the Lebron excuse after this year?

Why does there need to be an excuse? If they lose and he averages 30/10/6 then they lost to the better team. Period. The teams Jordan won with were the better team in the championships they won. Especially the 2nd 3. No excuse needs to be made unless he ***** the bed which I highly doubt he will. Especially after game 1.

 

[Clark]

Who said that? I said statistically. If you guys don't read it is hard to have a discussion.

Jamison is a career 20 and 8 guy.

Pippen was a career 16-6-5 guy.

Jamison was a better scorer than Jordan ever played with, and he isn't as good as the other two guys on Lebron's team today.

So you're making the argument that Jamison is the better player while never outright saying that Jamison is the better player...you've been hanging out in the politics forum too long.

You are way, way undervaluing Pippen. Scottie Pippen was one of the five best wing defenders to ever play the game of basketball.

 

[BlackandGold81]

We all can agree that Vince Carter is the best player to come out of North Carolina.

 

[Travisam]

So you're making the argument that Jamison is the better player while never outright saying that Jamison is the better player...you've been hanging out in the politics forum too long.

You are way, way undervaluing Pippen. Scottie Pippen was one of the five best wing defenders to ever play the game of basketball.

Pippen top 50. Jamison not top 500.

The End

 

[theboat]

So you're making the argument that Jamison is the better player while never outright saying that Jamison is the better player...you've been hanging out in the politics forum too long.

You are way, way undervaluing Pippen. Scottie Pippen was one of the five best wing defenders to ever play the game of basketball.

My argument is that that would never have been the case. NEVER. If he played for the Bullets.

 

[theboat]

Pippen top 50. Jamison not top 500.

The End

Since you guys want to revise history and say Lebron "would have" won if he had a supporting cast, why can't I revise history and say Pippen would never have been the player he was if he wasn't lucky enough to be on the Bulls.

 

[David79]

My argument is that that would never have been the case. NEVER. If he played for the Bullets.

How can you even prove something like that? And that is a worthless argument because he played for the Bulls. Michael Jordan helped him become the player he was, but make no mistake about it, Pippen was freakin good. He purely measuring his worth in terms of points per game. He was a good rebounder, very good passer and was basically their PG, plus he was an amazing defensive player one of the best defensive wings ever.

I agree with you that the Bulls supporting cast in their first three championships besides Pippen was no better than the Cavs but having Pippen is a huge addition. lebron didn't have anyone equal to that on his roster.

 

[theboat]

How can you even prove something like that? And that is a worthless argument because he played for the Bulls. Michael Jordan helped him become the player he was, but make no mistake about it, Pippen was freakin good. He purely measuring his worth in terms of points per game. He was a good rebounder, very good passer and was basically their PG, plus he was an amazing defensive player one of the best defensive wings ever.

I agree with you that the Bulls supporting cast in their first three championships besides Pippen was no better than the Cavs but having Pippen is a huge addition. lebron didn't have anyone equal to that on his roster.

He actually did. His name was Lebron.

 

[David79]

Since you guys want to revise history and say Lebron "would have" won if he had a supporting cast, why can't I revise history and say Pippen would never have been the player he was if he wasn't lucky enough to be on the Bulls.

I don't know if Lebron would have won a championship with those bulls teams especially since him and Pippen play the same position, if Lebron was on that team they probably wouldn't have got Pippen.

 

[Clark]

Since you guys want to revise history and say Lebron "would have" won if he had a supporting cast, why can't I revise history and say Pippen would never have been the player he was if he wasn't lucky enough to be on the Bulls.

He may not have won squat somewhere else but I'm not sure how not playing for the Bulls would have impacted how he played defense. Scottie wasn't an all time defensive player because he played with Jordan. He was an all time defensive player because he was an athletic freak who had the size to guard power forwards and the quickness to guard point guards.

It's one thing for Jordan fans to **** on any player someone dare mention in the same breath as him. It's another thing to **** on the guy that helped him win just to make Jordan look better.